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Rick1963 #2239341 04/20/12 12:09 AM
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Rick. That's hilarious. If its red, we're tying him down and force-feeding DB principles on him!!!


Me-46, D-21, S15, S13

After many years w/my head in the sand...
I FILED
Divorced 6/2011

The average woman would rather have beauty than brains, because the average man can see better than he can think.
jbnati #2239370 04/20/12 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted By: jbnati
I can ncl/lc4 has gotten me out of the weeds and back on to the road numerous times.


JB, I'm happy to be waiting for you in the weeds anytime...I know the weeds well, considering how much time I have spent in them after veering off course myself! crazy

I count you among the best of DB'ers...the king of GAL. Really, you make the rest of us look pretty pathetic! wink

In all honesty, you have been a real blessing to me on this board. Much is to be learned from you.


aka lc4 : )
ncl #2239408 04/20/12 05:06 AM
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you're a vet all right, jb... a true inspiration to all of us in the game of GAL. grin

ncl #2239444 04/20/12 12:31 PM
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Hello one and all..

My heart goes for the pain of this situation but you're in one of the best places to grow.

What about me? I was 52 when my husband of 25 years left, just left after saying it was all my fault. I later found out it was to the home of his much younger paramour who he has since married and have a child. My three kids at the time were 13, 17 and 21. Early on in our marriage we'd agreed that I'd stay home with the kids as he aggressively pursued his career.

Why am I successful? Well.. I'd have been more successful if I knew what I know now! But then again there is that pesky learning curve. Taking the hard knocks to learn and grow, regardless of divorce or reconciliation, teaches you how to have a healthy relationship.. with your self and others.

What is success? For me it was a combination of things. Reading the DB book among others, coming here and learning from others and going to a counselor all while desperately treading in a vortex of emotional chaos and pain.

Some simple rules to live by:

1. My signature below my name.

2. If it's right, do it
If it feels wrong, don't.
If you can't decide or waffle, the answer is no.

3. It's not the fall, but how you regain your balance.

And since my posts are usually wayyyyy too long posts, I'll just stop for now.

*hugs*

Gypsy #2239482 04/20/12 04:22 PM
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Who am I ?

STB-45yo, -----divorced, Father of 2 wonderful children.

I was 40 when my darling little MLCer .......... R-U-N-N-O-F-T


Lookin for answers I suppose.






Why was I successful ?


I would suppose that successful varies from person to person, depending on what their version is. In retrospect, I wasn't very happy before the bomb. Life had became very mundane , and I was looking for happiness everywhere, except where I should have been looking for it. The daily pain that I felt afterward , was mostly caused by myself. My fears had actually become a goal that I worked toward, and until I realized that they were MY fears, and overcome them, then I would remain in that pattern that I had set for myself.

I learned that working through those fears, and staring them down, was the only way to go through such an amazingly painful period of self-growth and awareness within myself, for myself, and by myself. I learned that I HAD to overcome those things in order to be of any use to myself, or my children.

I see myself as a success, because even though I am Divorced, I still honor my vows. I have let go of the anger, the fears, the control. I can balance that with the new relationship that I am in, and can define who I am for myself, and within my relationship. I am a man that is capable of making better choices and decisions that affect the people I love.



Things that I learned DBing...

I learned that there are a million ways to climb a hill, and what is right for one person, may not be right for another...

I learned that most people don't have the burning desire to be "right", as much as they have a burning desire to be heard...

I learned (finally) the difference between Lance, Cadet, and Old Pilot..... : )

I learned that everyone's opinion counts. Some toward the better, some toward the worse...

I learned that I will never stop growing emotionally, and that I learn something every day. Usually from a place where I least expect it to come from...

I learned that Starsky and I actually agree on much more than each of us thinks we do.... : )

I learned that Virginia really doesn't like outside links , and will "ban" pretty quickly. (especially to certain websites)...

I learned that Virginia is a forgiving person, and practices DB very well.......

I learned that "honoring your vows" doesn't have anything to do with your spouse...

I learned that having an argument on the internet, is a futile waste of time and headspace...

I learned that LostPhil...may still be lost...

I learned the difference between the two LRT's listed, and that the one in DB isn't the same as the one in DR...

I learned that I would rather have one or two friends that really tell me the truth, than to have a thousand friends that will blow sunshine up my backside....

I learned that those one or two....may not be who you think that they are....

I learned that some people just want to be angry, and really enjoy being a victim of another's choices....no matter how hard one tries to help them....

Ohhh.....and I learned what love really means, what friendship really means, what trust really means, what forgiveness really means....




What DB tools did I use ???

-180
-GAL
-Being Banned
-48 hour rule ( which SHOULD be in the book )
-Being Re-instated
-cheeseless tunnels
-setting boundaries
-going dark, and LRT



Vets ?

Wow, such a hard list.....and I know that you said current posters.

I just hate to see such wisdom from such wonderful people get buried in the archives.....

I would have to say, that my first Thank You, would be to.......


Forrest Gump...

I learned a lot from reading that guy....




Then, in no particular order..... (and if I left you out, I apologize)....

Chocolate eyes ; )
Bworl
Jeanette1120
Kikifree
Sofaraway
AmyC
Faithisbelieving
Frank_D
Lissett
Figgy (Figgeroni )
BegginnersMind/Brooklyn/Brookie
Fisherman/Trapt
Jimbo
Cat04
The Pirate
The Brokeback Cowboy (Gritter)
CD Bear
Ericmsant2
MHL
Punktman
Seeking Answers
AJM
Mr Bond
Drew


I would recommend searching the archives, and reading from any of these people....



There are some really great posters here now too....

Labug --------- Adinva
Purg --------- Accuray
BF --------- 2TP
Rick89 --------- Sayitisn'tso
The Monkey ----- CES1967
Kaffe


They are exhibiting what this site is about....true growth in the face of adversity...

Oh.....and Rick1963 : )

dbmod #2239493 04/20/12 05:59 PM
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Wow, wish this had been a topic when I started this journey in 2003. I might have come to some better conclusions a bit faster had I pondered them. Maybe not.

And some of my dearest friends I met here. Wouldn't trade that for the world. (Back when they didn't sanitize the info we shared so we got together.)

I'm now 50 (yikes) and not seeing anyone. I'm really happy in my own skin and not being in a R. I'm not even sure I really want one in the future. I won't rule that out, but it would have to be someone completely and utterly special for me to screw up the happy life I've created on my own with my girls. We were legally separated for 2 years and got D in 2005.

I worked hard at utilizing as many DB skills as I could. Laurie was a great resource for me, and I tracked what I did and the results. If they were not working, I analyzed why and how much time I lost gaining ground I had lost. That was an eye opener. My main motivation was our 2 girls, who were 8 and 5 when I started this painful journey. I simply wanted them to live in a house with 2 parents who loved each other and them too.

My most successful technique was to invoke a 24 hour rule in responding to anything emotional, and strike when the iron was cold. In fact, I still utilize this technique with others today. It forces me to consider how other people feel and to allow their perceptions and feelings to weigh in.

My girls are now 18 and 15, and the oldest leaving for college in August. She became a competitive volleyball player at the age of 11 right after our D, which oddly enough, was the path for her dad and me to really rekindle our friendship and focus on our commitments as parents. I had reservations when she started, as at the time I thought it would be weird and awkward to continually share a courtside with him or travel with him. Nothing was further from the truth.

By the time she was 14, her teammates and their parents all seemed perplexed that we were divorced. Our daughter got a real kick out of it. She still does. We enjoy her, the sport, the cameraderie of the community, and oddly enough, we found out that we genuinely care about each other as friends. He's got a serious GF now, whose daughter also plays competitive volleyball. D18 is still not completely into seeing her dad with GF, but I'm leading by example and supporting them. He was surprised at it, but heck, I even surprised myself. That verbal support followed by my actions has been the most recent pivotal point in our R. I told him that he had my blessing to love and be loved in a R that we couldn't do between ourselves. I've been reaping some big rewards with him ever since. I know that my actions speak louder than my words, and I'm keeping my word. laugh

Today, my D18 tells me that she really can't remember much about her life with her dad at home, and can't believe we were ever attracted to each other. While it makes me laugh, it kind of makes me sad. Why can she get that at 18 and I didn't get it at 40?

My biggest piece of advice to all the newcomers is to work on forgiveness. You need to do that anyway if you DO reconcile, so get working on it. It will help your relationship with everyone around you, especially your children.

Don't spend any time keeping score... or badmouthing your spouse. Kids pay attention. Eliminate the word *should* from your vocabulary. It means you have an expectation on someone that is probably not been verbalized, appreciated or agreed upon. Your hidden contracts with that person will come into play now, and you will be exposed for your faults and mistakes. *Man up* and accept your role in the breakdown of your marriage.

And as SunFunOne said (hey Barb!), quit living in denial! Quit telling people that you were happy until XXX happened (fill in the blank). Your marriage was as strong as the weakest link. And if your spouse is/was unhappy, your marriage was not happy! It probably meant that you were getting your way, but they had less of a voice... or you punished them in some way for disagreeing with you. That's the voice of personal experience speaking here.

My XH and my parents and siblings have remained close, as I have with his family. We both worked hard (okay, I worked harder) to keep things as normal for our girls as we could. The biggest thing I've done right in my entire life was making them the priority without fail. It might be my biggest accomplishment in life ever. Although they love their dad beyond belief, D18 tells me every so often that she knows who the person who chose them over selfishness was me... and that wherever I live will be her home.

And for those of you who are waiting for your spouse to tell you they regret the choices they made? Surprise... it won't bring you any joy. It's like witnessing someone caught for a murder, but the murdered person is still dead. I've heard it... and recently... that if he could change things now, he would. He's reaping the consequences from his decisions, and he knows it. So what. You were right. There is no consolation prize for that. Ever. That's how you know you've forgiven them... the only way this could make you happy is if you haven't.

I know it seems completely unfathomable that you could visualize a happy life without them, but trust us. You can. Believe that you have happiness in your future no matter what, and try to learn as much from this experience as you can. The DB skills you employ now only help you to become a better person and a better partner to someone new down the road.

Best wishes to all you who are just beginning this journey. It's painful and tough, but the lessons learned are priceless if you choose them.

smile Betsey


"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."

Albert Einstein
Underdog #2239511 04/20/12 06:54 PM
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I just wanted to say thanks to all the vets, and everyone here for contributing to such a valuable resource to those in need. Not everyone who has taken the time to provide me help may be on the vet list but I thank you all from the bottom of my heart for your time and heartfelt advice.

Kaffe Diem
25yearsmlc
Rick1963
cat04
labug
oneleven
2thapoint
Grmpy_Mnky
Mach1
barelyfloating
Yasu MrBond
ben11

If I missed anyone my sincere apologies. I have always been given good advice, unfortunately for me I didn't always follow it, but I am in a much better place now than when I came here and for that I sincerely thank all of the members of this forum, who have posted to me or anyone else here because so many opinions all over this board have helped me at times.

Thank you and good luck to all in your respective sitch's!


me 38
W 30
T 3
M in 05/2010
Separated 08/2011
Stephchildren (all hers) SS17, SS12, SD8
I filed 8/27, she countered I filed response 9/5
Anxiously waiting on the judge!
Mach1 #2239515 04/20/12 07:15 PM
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Who am I?

I'm a woman who is now over 50 but not freaking out about it b/c I take care of myself. So does my h, I have to say. He is in GREAT shape and coincidentally, his Army Reserve unit is being deployed so being in great shape is a real Godsend now.

What did I learn?

Since there are literally 6 years of DB lessons, along with what I learned at Retrovaille and the workshop I attended, (& later my h) I'm going to have to truly condense this...But condensing for ME, might not be condensed for others I fear...

I don't think success is defined as staying married but I know it helps for newbies to see that some do. We did and that was a surprise.

So first off, I'll say that DBing obviously CAN work to save a marriage b/c without it, I'd be divorced. I'm positive of that statement.


For me, DBing changed a few big myths I had in my life, along w/several behaviors of mine. (Note that I said nothing about my h there.)

What did I change/learn?

1) I stopped asking WHY my h was doing what he was doing. It wasted way too much time, had no answer that would satisfy ME and in all likelihood, H did not know. (He cannot adequately explain some of his behaviors to me even now. He really does seem to have forgotten some of the things he said or did).

I learned that wasting that time wondering "why?/why?/why?", was really an obstacle to my forward movement. It was time I could have spent on improving my life and the lives of my children.

Not asking unanswerable questions and brooding, also lead to a reduction in the obsessing factor. So did GAL.

2) I stopped revolving my daily/weekly life around my MD h's work schedule (or him or his choices, in general.)

I always felt my life was "on hold", which made me resentful. And that showed in me, when he came home, b/c of how I interpreted his extra hours.

This is one great example from my marriage that I didn't get until I began DBing. It's a specific change in behavior that changed a dynamic in our marriage.

His hospital hours were relentlessly long, which is hard on a family. Even when home he often prepared for the next day's cases. So I could not fathom why he'd take extra cases at the end of a day (he'd say we needed the money or the case was unusual)…and there were times he really wanted to impress someone too.

I worried that his evident preference for the approval of his colleagues, was more important to him than the love of his family. All I knew is that I missed him and I felt very neglected for many years.

Thing is, even if SOME of those cases were done for the "wrong" reasons (according to me), & even if I WAS neglected, I'm embarrassed to admit that

It never occurred to me to make the home life HAPPIER/WARMER and MORE LOVING when he came home - instead of figuratively/literally having my arms crossed when he came home late...

I "brilliantly" forgot, for years, to give him a loving home life that a man would miss...

I learned to make an effort to change that. NO more complaints unless they really mattered, (and most really don't).

To this day, I make an effort to welcome him home and greet him at the door w/ affection (a kiss & hug) AND getting the kids to do so as well. Even the older ones in their 20s, if they are at our home, STOP what they are doing and meet him at the door. H LOVES that and it takes 90 seconds of my day.

That ^^ is one specific example of a change in ME/MY reaction, which lead to a change in our relationship - even though I had believed h to be "wrong" in the original situation. Make sense?

**How to stop revolving around our spouses? GAL. Doing whatever it takes to feel good enough about yourself that you don't expect or want or need someone else to anchor you.

Biggest outward change in my daily life was--

I learned to stop feeling victimized, to GAL and really enjoy it, with or without him - which took so much pressure off of the r itself.

And I REALLY GAL...big time
.

I posted more fully on a thread of mine somewhere, b/c my GAL list is LONG…but suffice to say I'm pretty darn proud of the things I explored in & out of my comfort zone.

Though I think it made me more interesting to h, that was NOT the goal. My goal was simply to feel better. And it sure helped with that.

**I learned that There's NO ONE person who can or should meet all our needs. It's really our job to do that. When I see LBSers here who say they have "few or no friends or family near" them, I worry that they were revolving around the spouse too much and that can hurt a marriage.

It can seem as if the LBSer isn't bringing much to the table, except their needs.

The spouse does not want the extra job of making us happy. Loving us is one thing, but "making us happy" is impossible. That's exclusively OUR job.

Thing is, same goes for them "making us miserable." Of course being left behind hurts deeply.

** I learned that at some point even with the pain of apparent rejection, the LBSer has to CHOOSE to move forward towards a happier life.

Some don't want that. Some people, consciously or not, prefer victimhood and blaming the WAS, to changing themselves.

I cannot explain why that is, b/c it seems so powerless to me to say it's all someone else's fault. But I see it often enough to know it happens.

2) I stopped trying to "establish justice" in our marriage by keeping score and hanging onto my pain or resentments,

if h & I had not "fully addressed" them...Which really meant if h had not admitted fault, seen things my way, AND apologized...

**I learned I had Another myth to change-- I mistakenly believed we had to see our pasts identically and had to agree on our history in order to move forward. Not so.

**I learned that many times, like 2 witnesses to car accidents, h didn't see the "wrong" act as being wrong. We didn't agree on what we had "seen" b/c we are two people using a different lens to see the world with.

**(BTW, I am NOT referring to breaking marital vows or acts that are inarguably "Wrong". I mean conflicts that might include grayer areas)**

Rather than seeing our pasts the same way, I'm far more inclined to make sure we stick to "now & from this day forward" in our focus. I think there's a good reason those words are in most vows…i.e., are we on the same page about today and tomorrow?

3) FORGIVENESS…I don't think I ever saw it growing up. Literally. I never heard my parents apologize to each other after an argument and they had many heated fights. My father was a brilliant well educated rageaholic who got mean when he drank, which was OFTEN.

When my father was on his deathbed, he had BiG regrets on multiple levels as a father and a husband.

By then, he genuinely wanted forgiveness. Because of personal work I and some siblings had done to address the issues we had from our childhood, We were able to express forgiveness, and mean it.

We each felt deeply moved by the experience, as was my father. It was a "Holy" moment for us.

Learning how to do That^^^ is a major life lesson.


Though I had learned to forgive my father for the past, I found it harder to do with my h. Not sure why but I assume the fear of further hurt was the reason.

**I learned that forgiveness is a learned skill and inside my marriage, it literally took practice for me to change how I viewed things in it.

Sometimes I just forced myself to stop dredging up the past. I also read up on forgiveness, and worked on it in therapy & with someone of my faith. (I do think it can be very much a spiritual challenge, rather than purely an emotional one).

As a lawyer I began to tell myself "The Statute of Limitations applies and I CANNOT raise the issue again." It helped.

I learned that RE-HASHING the pre-marital past and reliving the traumas of the past are NOT solution based. They are not helpful in knowing what TO DO NOW.

That^^ is a DB LESSON…and unfortunately many mc's spend a lot of time and energy on the past. IMO, get a solution based mc or you'll move a lot slower.

(Not suggesting you ignore serious childhood traumas at all. But so many
LBSers point to something in the WAS's past as the reason for the split today, and that keeps the focus OFF of what THEY CAN DO to improve their situation.)

And for instance, if it's YOU that has the disturbing past, or you were abused as a child, your spouse cannot fix THAT…

and it's NOT "BECAUSE" of a childhood issue that you have a marital problem today, - it's because of how it was handled/mis-handled

that you allow that problem from the past to damage your present day.

So go get help for your personal baggage.

**Learn to work that out apart from the marriage and NOT let that past issue from your youth or premarital days, haunt you now. Get some help -

AND in the meantime, work on your marriage by doing behaviors that help it, and lessening or getting rid of the behaviors that don't help it.
DB 101...

3) Get a solution based C who gets you some results or behavior changes in 4-6 sessions, or helps you learn about Forgiveness. That's the "Work" part of this.

**Attend Retrovaille (the marriage retreat designed for couples in crisis, also helped with that, btw. WELL WORTH the time/money.

(And no, you do NOT have to be Catholic or even Christian to attend. But they do say the word "God," so if that's an issue, call around to see what you can attend that will help you most).

Attend "Essential Experience Workshop" or some other solution based personal growth workshop - if you have personal issues affecting your m - so that you can become your own best self.

You'll find that being a more loving happy person, makes a more loving spouse & that helps the marriage.

**I Learned in Retrovaille and the workshop to Stay in the moment.

"Being HERE NOW", relieved me of a lot of baggage from the past and worries about the future.

**I learned that venting is NOT always healthy. Of course it can be. But at times I'd vent and vent and my venting made me want to file for divorce!!

(Even today, when I read over my journals from back then, I usually get angry all over again. That's pretty telling.)


Venting helps in 2 situations I think.

1) If you really are foggy about boundaries and need feedback about whether some behavior is okay or acceptable or not… you vent, telling us how you feel about it and wanting to know if you're over reacting, etc and you ask…
AND OR

2) if you are also working on yourself and Not venting to stay stuck.

**I learned that No victimhood should be enabled here. If someone really is being abused, no one suggests sticking around for that.

But if they are choosing to see themselves as victims and NOT changing that, I think enabling that viewpoint keeps them stuck.

**I was stuck in victimhood for my first several months, until after getting here. It was so empowering to realize I could react differently and control SOME of this, & I thank DBing for that gift.**

I had some very good vets at my time of need, who reminded me that fuming about the injustice of it all MIGHT help calm me down…but it might not. (It did not).

As Was2Sad told me, *** the ONLY thing to focus on

is what YOU can do to change or help your situation -

and to do right by your kids, which happen to be the same thing...***.


**I've learned to have fewer deal breakers now, but the ones I have, will be enforced without a 2nd thought. Strangely, that makes me feel safe.

**I learned to Keep the focus on what I CAN control, (and that's only ME)
**I learned that where the head goes, the heart will, eventually, follow.

I came to believe that I'd TRULY be alright, in fact I'd be HAPPY, no matter what my h did...which

changed how I felt in my heart, AND how I behaved. And It radiated in my outward behaviors for others to see...

h picked up on it and suddenly he did Not seem to want his freedom so much as - wanting what I had,

which was our family and homelife and friends and an upbeat attitude about the future. HE was lonelier than me. He felt he'd lose more than me, (and I internally agreed b/c I felt so much better about who I was that I knew I'd only be alone if I chose to be.)

**I had decided that in all likelihood the marriage was over BUT that I was going to be fine anyhow. This freed me.

**I learned to focus on the upside of being single (or the upside of wherever you are).

At first you think there are zero upsides. You are gripped in fear and feelings of rejection that are deep. So seeing the upside sounds insane, and you may have to start small. I began w/ being grateful to not have the toilet lid left up, or being able to watch chick flicks, and saying "why yes, yogurt IS fine for dinner tonight"... but

you learn YOU CAN CHOOSE to be happy wherever you are. Bloom where you are planted, etc.


That's very attractive, btw. But that's not the goal of it. The goal is feeling better, & living a full happy life with love given and received.

That goal does NOT REQUIRE the spouse who broke your heart, to be in your life.

Once you come to truly KNOW you'll be more than alright and you know this inside & out, you'll be on the road to a faster recovery.

Mantras, helpful quotes, (often from here) praying, turning my marriage & pain over to God, exercise, all helped me get through the early days that were really bad...

GAL helped me to have fun & be happy again.

Forgiving/letting go also removed some huge obstacles to feeling content.

DBing reminded me of what I really ought to have known,

which is that I am in charge of how happy my life is, and always have been.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
25yearsmlc #2239516 04/20/12 07:19 PM
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PS

I had a Godsent DB coach I cannot thank enough. We had MANY sessions.

Vernetta, wherever you are, I THANK YOU...And I miss you!


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
25yearsmlc #2239528 04/20/12 08:28 PM
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My story's not so important. The friends I've made on here know my story and that's all that matters.

All of the above, but especially:

Jack_Three_Beans
mach1
FIB
ericmsant2
FaithinAK

And one more that I don't think anyone has mentioned yet:

Grace_O

smile


Everybody hurts. It's part of life. Don't miss the good stuff.
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