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#2243352 - 05/07/12 12:19 PM Re: Hello, WAW. Is anyone there? [Re: sandi2]
ces67 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 1024
Hey AT, I completely understand wanting to push and IMO, the key statement you made above was "I can't reason our marriage back into being". Getting your W back won't be the result of an argument won (and you know this)

maybe its time to go back to "a beginners" view and allow some space (but don't announce it, just do it). The reasoning isn't getting you the results you want so what's your next 180? If I recall, you were making good progress just doing some acts of service like cooking dinner and things like that. Can you go back to that?

Every sitch is different regardless of the common themes because each of us are unique. You saw on my thread that I've pushed some conversations with m W lately. For me, that was a 180 because my tendancy has been to withdraw and hide my feelings. Is the logic & debate a 180 for you or your natural state?

Good luck with counseling today.
_________________________
Me:45, W:44
S:15, D:12
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
2 attempts at MC-stopped 09/13
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms

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#2243378 - 05/07/12 03:01 PM Re: Hello, WAW. Is anyone there? [Re: sandi2]
AlwaysTrying Offline
Member

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 243
I'm having a hard time responding concisely. I really need help and I really appreciate having your attention, sandi. You are an amazing person for giving your time this way. I really don't want to mess this up.

I'm thinking about sending her the following email:

Quote:
I believe that I can show you a great deal more space. Our conflict today is, I think, that you don't see how that can possibly work. Maybe we have to make some kind of drastic change. I think Laurie can help us figure out how to do that.

I think there is a good chance that I am doing something or a set of somethings specifically wrong that are pushing you away and that with Laurie's help, I can understand what those are and stop. I feel that without you there, I have about a 15% chance of figuring that out, and with you there, I have about an 85% chance of understanding what to do and making you a lot happier and at peace.

You don't have to come today. I fear that if you do come, you will feel pushed and use the opportunity to drop some upsetting news on me. I think that if you do come with an open mind, you will reap immediate and long-term benefit.
_________________________
- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room

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#2243379 - 05/07/12 03:03 PM Re: Hello, WAW. Is anyone there? [Re: AlwaysTrying]
AlwaysTrying Offline
Member

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 243
ces, it seems lie your 180's have been really effective for you and I'm so happy to see some progress.

Shutting up absolutely would be a 180 for me, and a good one, but I feel my clock running out and I want an extension.
_________________________
- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room

Top
#2243381 - 05/07/12 03:11 PM Re: Hello, WAW. Is anyone there? [Re: AlwaysTrying]
AlwaysTrying Offline
Member

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 243
Oops! I forgot the first bit of the hypothetical email:

"The reason I want to go to counseling today is so that we can negotiate how I can back out of your life without disrupting the kids' lives."
_________________________
- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room

Top
#2243387 - 05/07/12 03:33 PM Re: Hello, WAW. Is anyone there? [Re: AlwaysTrying]
AlwaysTrying Offline
Member

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 243
OK, here is the central argument. I believe that we owe certain things to our kids, and one of those things is a stable home and family, and another is to attempt to resolve issues that will pull their home apart.

In other words, we owe it to them and we owe it to each other. I think she agrees and feels terrible that she can't live up to her responsibilities. Instead she is emotionally shut down, and doesn't appear to be able to feel anything other than resentment and anger on many occasions.

Obviously, that argument hasn't gotten us anywhere. Maybe it has paralyzed her into doing nothing, but when I leave her alone long enough that she feels comfortable and says she just wants to move on, I come back and drag out those ideas again.

I felt that if I moved out of the house, she could have enough space that we could improve the situation. She feels that it isn't enough space because I come over to the house several days a week to be with the kids. She used to leave during this time, but since I have spent effort on doing things like cooking good food to attract her to the house during those times, she has spent a lot more time together.

I did spend a month mostly leaving her alone, but she would text me and I would text her back about casual stuff. One night she decided to stay up late and watch tv with me and seemed to enjoy being closer. That night I touched her arms as she was going to bed. She stopped in her tracks and said, "I'm so lonely.". I didn't know what to say. I should have said, "How about a hug."

Perhaps a week later, she agreed to come to my counselor where she said that nothing I was doing was enough and she was tired and she wants to finalize the divorce when the kids are out of school and move out of the house. Since then, I have been back on the attack trying to get her to back off for a few months.

She refuses to give me feedback on what I am doing and I only find out that she's not happy when she makes some upsetting pronouncement. I am so upset that she can't communicate and I'm getting more resentful that her inability to communicate was at the source of so many of our problems. She bottles stuff up inside and then it becomes a destructive force when she lets it out.

Her next relationship is also going to be a failure. She goes to counseling almost every week and I have no idea why.

The other day she said, "You asked me what I needed to make this work, and I told you right from the beginning. I need us to be completely separate for a year." I've been holding on to the idea of our kids still having one bedroom, one set of beds, one place to sleep at night. That's why I moved out. I'm so angry that she has been unwilling to commit any thought to how that could work. She's let me try to make it happen, but she give me no feedback.

Right now, I'm feeling tempted to move back home and tell her to move out if she wants space. She says she's going to do it anyway. I'm tired of supporting her childish, self-centered, bratty attitude.

Of course, I would probably end up regretting that.

But maybe all I can do is let her move out.

Or maybe I can make some drastic effort to not have contact with her over the next month and she'll back out of her plans to move out when school is over.
_________________________
- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room

Top
#2243392 - 05/07/12 03:47 PM Re: Hello, WAW. Is anyone there? [Re: AlwaysTrying]
AlwaysTrying Offline
Member

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 243
I ended up sending the email with minor edits.

Quote:
The reason I want to go to counseling today is so that we can negotiate how I can back out of your life without disrupting the kids' lives.

I believe that I can show you a great deal more space. Our conflict today is, I think, that you don't see how that can possibly work. Maybe we have to make some kind of drastic change. I think Laurie can help us figure out how to do that.

I think there is a good chance that I am doing something or a set of somethings specifically wrong that are pushing you away and that with Laurie's help, I can understand what those are and stop. I feel that without you there, I have about a 15% chance of figuring that out, and with you there, I have about an 85% chance of understanding what to do and making you a lot happier and at peace.

I deeply regret pushing you yesterday. I wish I could take it back.

You don't have to come today. I fear that if you do come, you will feel pushed and use the opportunity to drop some upsetting news on me. I don't want to fight. I think that if you do come with an open mind, you will reap immediate and long-term benefit, even if you don't stay for the whole thing.


Right now, I plan to switch to no-contact with her, which won't work with the kids and all, but I'll get as close as I can. I'm going to re-read LRT and double-down on it.
_________________________
- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room

Top
#2243401 - 05/07/12 04:09 PM Re: Hello, WAW. Is anyone there? [Re: AlwaysTrying]
hangten Offline
Member

Registered: 01/13/11
Posts: 209
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Stop going down the cheeseless tunnels. I forgot where I heard that, before. No more emails and texts. You will not be able to convince your w to stay. Trust me I have tried. The only one you can change is you. Do something for you. Make your self happy. I enjoy when my kids are happy. I do what ever I can to make my kids feel special. I get a new dress for my D. My D is ecstatic when she receives a new dress. My d thinks she is a princess. I will not tell my D any different. My s loves to be active. I take bike rides with both my kids.
Stop writing emails to your w. This will get you the what you do not want. Try to get your anxiety down. Try to slow down your thought process.
_________________________
H 37
W 38
M 11
T 18
D 4
S 10
Bomb 27/11/2010
Separated still living in the same house 1/1/2012
No D Papers No Separation Papers

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#2243407 - 05/07/12 04:37 PM Re: Hello, WAW. Is anyone there? [Re: hangten]
AlwaysTrying Offline
Member

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 243
MWD. "Stop going down cheeseless tunnels" is in DR or DB, probably in both.

That was my last email, I swear.

Do men who care about being with their children ever become a WAS? Men just walk away. Women know they can walk away and take the children with them. I hate it.

Maybe I can't convince her to stay. And if I can't, you know what would make me happy? Eating at my dining room table. Watching TV on my couch. Sleeping in my house. Fixing the things that are broken because I am not at the house without the kids often enough to take care of them.

Fighting for more time with my kids. Coming after my wife for the taxes she tried to get out of paying. Taking the tax return she got out of filing separately. Taking the $5000 child care expense reimbursement she grabbed in January.

So... Do I start no-contact and hope for the best, or do I start going after this stuff because I can't make her stay? I have been avoiding this conflict in the hope that she would calm the h*ll down if I left her alone.

Maybe when she said, "I want to finalize the divorce when the kids get out of school", I should have just said... what?
_________________________
- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room

Top
#2243452 - 05/07/12 09:47 PM Re: Hello, WAW. Is anyone there? [Re: AlwaysTrying]
hangten Offline
Member

Registered: 01/13/11
Posts: 209
Loc: Ontario, Canada
It sounds like you want to win. Fighting is the wrong choice of words. Your posts sound punitive. You need to control your words and actions. Close your mouth. Let your w do the talking. Talking is not going to get you out of this. When she is ready she will talk. Only thing that you can control is yourself. Keep yourself busy. Don't use your kids as a bargaining chip. The kids want to see both of you.

Believe nothing what she says and half of what she does.
Practice patience. Time is needed to heal the hurt. It has taken a bout a year for my w to talk with me without a hint of anger in her voice. Keep the road paved smooth and don't scare the rabbit away. Your w needs to believe the changes.
_________________________
H 37
W 38
M 11
T 18
D 4
S 10
Bomb 27/11/2010
Separated still living in the same house 1/1/2012
No D Papers No Separation Papers

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#2243463 - 05/07/12 10:47 PM Re: Hello, WAW. Is anyone there? [Re: AlwaysTrying]
sandi2 Online
Member

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 11345
You make me think of the commercial where the girl calls the guy to tell him she's not talking to him!
_________________________
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!

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