the path is the goal...

[labug]

First of all (((zig))

Now let it all go. No decisions about anything need to be made right now. The sky is not falling.

You are still trying to control the outcomes of this. You don't really know what H is telling your S. And is it so bad that he encouraged S to call you Mama again? Maybe he knew the lack of that was hurtful to you.

Whatever, his R with S is his. Let that go, trying to control it will only create more resentment from H.

And is it a dealbreaker if S doesn't call you mama for awhile? Maybe that's one of the only ways he has of showing his displeasure. Let him have it.

I think your expectations are creating all this upset. Your expectations for how you H is or isn't, your expectations of what the appt would be, your expectations of what H might do now. Your expectations of your S's reactions.

Was there a part of you that wanted this appt to show H how his leaving had affected S, to blame him fro leaving S and you?

Sit with your feelings and be honest with yourself.

It's the only way to get through this.

[zig]

thanks for the hug, labug - i really needed it - all evening i've been thinking i sure could do with a hug right now and now i got one:)

And is it so bad that he encouraged S to call you Mama again? Maybe he knew the lack of that was hurtful to you.

yes, that is a more loving way of looking at it. i will try to do that

you're right, my expectations of something "obviously" good happening in there were behind the disappointment. i've been aware of that all afternoon after i got back

that was all i was trying to point out in the appointment - that s is displaying his displeasure and upset by not calling us mama and dada. my point being that even though he acts "happy" all the time, he is deeply affected by this. and now in the last few days he is switching back and forth - calling me mama when he is ok with what i'm doing and calling me by my name in this stern manner when he doesn't like what i'm doing (i didn't get around to even mentioning that)



the way i see it is if he genuinely had son's emotional well-being at the fore front, he would have let me describe it, and then turned to the therapist to see what she had to say about it. instead he tried to turn the conversation into a battle about him being right and me being wrong

Was there a part of you that wanted this appt to show H how his leaving had affected S, to blame him fro leaving S and you?

i sat with this and my feelings about it for the whole of march while he was away - and admitted to myself that my hidden agenda was for him to see that s was deeply affected. i worked my feelings through it all and let it go and really got to the point where i realized that that was even more selfish of me than what he was doing. when we went in there today i was clear about it for myself - it was for our son.

even though i'm struggling with a lot of things here, it has become clear for me that i really don't have expectations about h coming back. what i do expect and maybe i have to let that go too, is that he would participate in helping s through this difficult time. actually after today i don't even expect that

you're right the sky isn't falling but i do feel a bit as if i'm being bombarded in some way.

the ironic thing is that ever since this whole thing started, all i wanted to do was be left alone. i'm still puzzled by why he is so much in my face. if he wants to leave he should just leave, why is he creating such a goddamn fuss. why can't he just make the final break, be honest and up front about it , make it clear for everyone and in every part of his life, acknowledge that of course the child will be affected, do his best to make it easy for the child and just go on his way. why do i have to be put through the wringer because of his guilt?

wow, i guess i'm feeling really resentful tonight .
sorry for venting so profusely and thanks for the support labug.

[zig]

journaling
h called back - and once again - one of those bizarre conversations - i know the type, they are part of the pattern - where he acted as if nothing, absolutely nothing was wrong - why did you think i was angry, i don't know what you are talking about, the appointment was great, and then riled for a few minutes about the whole mama/dad thing and how wrong i was and we have huge differences and he's not going to sit there quiet while i don't "Paint the correct picture"

i steered the conversation towards what we could agree to disagree and just used "i" sentences as much as i could. that if we could focus on not staying stuck in the disagreeing part, but find a way to work with what we are faced with in spite of disagreeing.

i told him what IC said to me yesterday - when i asked her what does one do when two people disagree and agree to disagree how do you move forward. her answer was to find out what the other person means and their values behind what they are saying. i described that to h and said that i was trying to do that as much as i could and respect his stand on things, but i needed the same respect to be heard and i didn't need him to agree with me with things about son

i also said that i felt very vulnerable in there, having to talk about these things that were difficult for both of us, and that it needed to be clear for him that by bringing them up i was not implying that they were his fault, they were just part of the situation that we needed to help son with

he did his little nonchalant act - basically dismissing everything i said in a mildly off hand way, so i ended the conversation, saying thanks for calling back and i need to go to bed. he replied by saying we could talk more about it later and probably should. i said that was fine and got off the phone

so i don't really know where it got us. i cannot validate his feelings if he chooses not to acknowledge them - and that's just that. i see my own pattern here - 10 years of trying to validate his feelings and just hitting a stone wall, and i simply have nowhere to go but bounce back and do the best i can - which is what i always did and am still doing. so much for detachment huh -

back to the drawing board, and start working on myself again.
tomorrow IS a new day

[labug]

I've gone through a lot of this myself except my boys are young adults which makes it easier, but the Mama Bear part of us never goes away. We want to protect our cubs.

I had to learn that H was not going to live according to my expectations and that my expectations of him had been at the root of my unhappiness for a long time-unmet expectations>anger>resentment>bitterness

I have a joint appt with H and S19's therapist coming up in a couple of weeks and I've had to closely examine my motives in suggesting that.

Accuray has a great post here:

resentment

Sorry if this seems disjointed, in my head it all makes sense.

[zig]

thanks labug
I had to learn that H was not going to live according to my expectations and that my expectations of him had been at the root of my unhappiness for a long time-unmet expectations>anger>resentment>bitterness


oh gosh, you are so right - that is what i am doing still, in spite of thinking and feeling that i am not. and worse, that is what i did for years - expecting him to be a certain way and building up anger and resentment. it really is time to let that go - i am torturing myself by staing in that mode.

Making H responsible for the kids' problems: telling H that the kids are sad because of him, that the kids are acting out because of what he did, etc. etc. He knows. from accuracy's post to jks

i'm looking at this and asking myself, is going to therapy for s together and describing the effects on s of the separation pointing the finger at h and implying he's responsible?

thanks for pointing me to accuracy's post it helped. i feel as if i am doing all these other things well, except for this one about the kids. i will admit i am terribly confused and struggling with how i should help s and how to db with h so he still feels validated

i hope your apptmt goes well with h. are you surprised that he agreed to it, or have you two done pretty well with interacting about the kids?

zig

[finding nemo]

Hi Zig!

I think the key with children is they feel everything so very much. And all you can do is be there to pick up the pieces when they need you to. However, if you son is angry, don't try to change that, but validate, "I understand why you're angry, I get angry about this situation, too." Just like we do with our spouses. I also add with my kids that "I will be here for you no matter what," and "Mommy and Daddy love you very much." That's all you can do right now while things are not quite settled.

It will get better!

Hoping today is a better day!!

[zig]

thanks nemo. your'e right about just being there, and as labug says, not being the fixer. i think i have been trying to fix things too much with s and need to sot that


if you son is angry, don't try to change that, but validate, "I understand why you're angry, I get angry about this situation, too."

not to keep pressing the point here - but the problem is that son gets crazy if i so much as imply that he is having any emotion - one is not allowed to refer to any emotion positive or negative and imply in any way that he is feeling that.

i've even had him getting mad at me because i've said ooh that must have made you feel good. it's worse when it's a negative emotion - if i try to acknowledge that he is disappointed about something, i find myself in the throes of a long crazy argument 10 yr old style.

i've learned to step back a little when it starts now, and not get pulled in. so i'm getting better at it.

i spoke to s last night and we talked about some little fun things to do this afternoon as he's with me from 3 to 6. he seemed pleased about my suggestions, so i am looking forward to spending 3 hours relaxing with him. i think just like with h, i have to have no expectations with s.

hope you're having a good day too
zig

[zig]

journaling

woke up this morning and realized once again, that i am still in this very heavy pattern with h - within myself , in my mind - i've stopped showing and reacting to him but within myself it is very much present

through our whole relationship this pattern was present. when he's behaving and just being a decent human being, i have had no problems and have been pretty content. but when he gets into one of his moods, it's like i fall off the deep end - the anxiety rises, i feel manipulated, crazy making stuff happens and before i know it i'm in the hole.

so i have to figure what this is about - for myself - why do i feel so crazy when he is doing his thing - that is, creating chaos around him? which is what he does. why does everything feel so irrational and nutty?

i've said to myself, as long as i keep being reactive, i cannot be with this man, because i can't handle what he does.

[labug]

son gets crazy if i so much as imply that he is having any emotion

hmmmmm actually sounds very much like S19. I, being the touchy-feely one, have tried to draw him out. It only makes it worse.

So now I've learned am learning to leave it be. I expect him to want to talk about things because that's what I want. Not the case.

If I've mentioned this before, please ignore, but have you read How to Fix Your Marriage Without Talking About It? This one is good for dealing with any male-female interactions, including sons-mothers.

Another I would suggest is out of print but can still be found, The Solo Partner by Phil DeLuca.

[zig]

thanks labug - i'll see if the library has them


I expect him to want to talk about things because that's what I want. Not the case.

that's the crux of my problem isn't it?

i just have to let things be - why can't that just enter my head.i'm pressuring them both sub-consciously aren't i, and in return suffering tremendously

thanks for guiding me through this labug, and everyone else - don't know what i would do without all of you - there is a consistent message here, whereas around me, i am getting so many conflicting opinions and advice that my head is spinning

i know, i keep reading here that i shouldn't listen to what family and friends are telling me, but it's really hard.

i've got one friend who is really down on h and gave me an earful about him coming over and letting him mow the lawn etc. then i've got mil telling me to let him come take care of his responsibilities and he needs to be told off (but she's not going to do it), my brother screaming divorce and not talking to me because i'm enabling h by not telling everyone about the A

meanwhile i'm trying to DB and probably breaking all the rules.

he sat there yesterday and told the therapist quite confidently how great we get along and even hang out together and he has even come over to my house for parties, and it made me sick to my stomach - i thought i was going to throw up.

and then i wonder - is my friend right - i let him into my life and try to be friends and what is the message that he is getting here.

is it better to let him be around and focus on having positive experiences together, like we did last weekend - or is it better to stay away , not accept his invitations and not invite him over and politely refuse his help with things around the house?

even last night on the phone he kept harping on about how it was such a good idea that we are separated and he really likes me - i thought i was going to throw up again - i can't bear to hear him talk like that

i'm majorly off track here and can't see the forest for the trees.