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#2238758 - 04/17/12 10:06 PM Re: What is going on here... and what do I do? [Re: LIO]
LIO Offline
Member

Registered: 04/09/12
Posts: 227
Loc: NW USA
Well go figure.. I received divorce papers today.

He doesn't want to be married, he's tired of 'this'. He can't explain anything. Back to square one except now I have a deadline.
The good news is that he most likely has to stay here now that OW is done with him.

I'm dealing with someone who is severely depressed. He doesn't want to see a counselor and he is always going through this each year. This is by far the worst year. He admitted that he had sex with the OW to feel better briefly - and of course it didn't work.

So now I'm on a limited time frame, and this [censored]. I don't know what I need to do. He's not going to snap out of this depression in time. And he's causing a lot of chaos. HE made some offhand comment like "well, I guess if divorce doesn't work, we could get remarried" or some joke about splitting custody like "Looks like I'll get S's legs and knees, you get shoulders and stomach". I don't find any of this funny and now that the court will be involved I really don't find it humorous.

I don't know if this is even worth it.. I like him 6 months of the year, and then 5-6 months he's going through some issue. I mean I can just see myself having to worry about every girl he is around wondering if they will turn into the OW. But I really don't want to split up my S's time. I feel awful.
_________________________
Me& h + S
M: 13 t: 14

H moved 2/12. Own apt 05/12, EAs, PAs, gfriends, oh my!
I'm done. 12/12

"I get knocked down, but I get up again.. you're never gonna keep me down" Chumbawumba

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#2239019 - 04/18/12 10:44 PM (NA) Re: What is going on here... and what do I do? [Re: LIO]
dbmod Offline
Member

Registered: 08/04/08
Posts: 2155
LIO-

I'm so sorry.

And I'm sorry about the full moderation while you are under this heartbreak and stress.


Depression is a helluva thing. There's a chapter in Divorce Remedy dealing with a depressed spouse--it talks about dealing with the long haul. It's hard on everyone. I'm sorry you're having to deal with all this while you are parenting.

You seem well focused and like a good person, and that's a real tribute to you in this mess.

Hang in there, we are here to help.

There are folks here who have been around awhile, and they're here to give back. Some of them have been very successful in saving their marriages. Some of them have been very successful in learning relationship skills and rebuilding their own dignity and rebuilding their lives even though their spouses have not returned for whatever reason. We call them, colloquially, as 'the vets'. Seek out their advice, the names at the tip of my tongue: sandi2, 25yearsmlc, Mr. Bond, Starsky309, Kaffe Diem, desert rat, the moderators: JackThreeBeans, sgctxok, Jamesjohn....there are many others
_________________________
dbmod

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#2239024 - 04/18/12 11:00 PM (NA) Re: What is going on here... and what do I do? [Re: dbmod]
hopingandpraying Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/12
Posts: 283
LIO,

Your situation sounds similar to mine. My H also has the cycle of doing irrational things and is unhappy with himself and needs that immediate gratification from things.

He also texted a coworker a year ago...we tried to fix things...thought things were going really well...then he wanted to end it all this Feb...had a PA/EA with a different woman from work while we were separated...we are still currently separated and have separated all of our money, loans, bills, etc...no divorce papers yet...he says that is in my hands!

I wish I could give you more advice as to what to do. I am right now, after 2 months, just getting the hang of going dark. I have not contacted my H in a week and plan on doing it until he contacts me. I am going to let him initiate anything and if he truly wants the divorce,then he can go get the papers or I will reach my threshold and finally do it.

Just know that I am thinking about you and that you are not the only one going through these types of situations. I know that does not really help, but I will pray for you and your M.

Keep your head up and try to give your H his space. Accuray and 25yearsMLC have great advice to give, so look for their posts and advice.
_________________________
M: 27 H: 28 T: 8 yrs M: 6 yrs
Sep: 2/18/12 (I have no feelings for you!)
EA/PA Uncovered: 2/26/12
H introduces OW to his fam: June
H moves ALL stuff out: July

I'm living my truth without your lies..

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#2239047 - 04/19/12 12:44 AM (NA) Re: What is going on here... and what do I do? [Re: hopingandpraying]
LIO Offline
Member

Registered: 04/09/12
Posts: 227
Loc: NW USA
Thank you all - I will definitely search out the vets too.

I went dark today. As he is coming over in the morning I still can engage in light conversation but I refuse to talk about divorce, relationships or anything else. My goal right now is that he postpone the divorce proceedings just so he can 'think' about it. Translation: I would like to buy some time so he can experience this and focus on what he wants. I am not going to be talking about the future with him. 37 rules in full effect.



I saw another text from him to OW last night. He left here to 'go sleep in in car at work'. Lies. He told her our divorce would be final next month (in what world does he live?) And the kicker, he signed with 'I love you'. She didn't reply. The OW texted me again today. I didn't reply back. Apparently he showed up at her house begging/demanding to be let in. She told him to go home to his family and called the police on him. I found him sleeping in my son's bed.

Today he's blaming me for his relationship ending. I hate to say it but I think that this confrontation from me was for the best. If he didn't get caught and called out and her rejecting him - he would keep doing this to us. This is happened almost 5 times now in the time we've been together. It's gotten easier for him to do. Now he has to feel rejection. Now he has to feel consequences.

I have for 14 years been so wrapped up in his thoughts, feelings, and moods that I almost lost myself. I am a strong woman who doesn't deserve to be cheated on. If I make a mistake or am called out about it, I will fix it. I am extremely loyal and trusting.

IF and a big fat IF we ever reconciled, it's going to be after counseling. I can't compromise anymore. I draw a line in the sand only to erase it and redraw it once he crosses it. I said after the last affair that there will be no more without me leaving. I'm not erasing that line. This is now almost a full five in affairs. I believe he lied to me about this one even still (saying they only ML 1 time. It's been 2 months he's been over there, he signs off with I love you. No... this is more than a one time thing). I also think that this started 2 years ago and that's why he confessed his affairs. He kissed her, broke it off after he got scared. I think he wanted me to break it off with him to make it easier and I surprised him by doing a 180 in my behavior. I am learning to trust my instincts because I was not wrong in them before.

Above all, what I learned was that I was right. Every single time he said I was overreacting or jealous - I had every right to be. He was carrying on affairs at those times. I questioned myself, whether I was seeing things... I wasn't. I trusted him and believed whatever he told me and let my heart override my head.

I make excuses for his behavior with his depression. Bottom line it comes down to is that he is an adult who still makes those choices. I completely understand depression, I've lived with it for a long time with him. I've read the chapter in the book and relate. It's definitely not for the weak-hearted. I feel for him and his pain. But even when I express my concern for his well-being and say "forget the relationship for a moment. Forget the marriage. I'm concerned about you. I notice that you are checked out of work. You aren't playing your video games. You aren't doing your hobbies anymore. And then you engage in destructive behaviors. I am concerned that you are going to keep going down hill and it's painful to watch." Really, he's going to have to crash in order to take action. It is painful to watch. It's hurtful to experience the actions he does and I've cared for him for so long to not care. This marriage may be a casualty of it right now. I still have hope for him - but I have to take care of myself and my S.

He did say 'well, if the divorce thing doesn't work out then we can always get married again.' Yeah.... After counseling and ONLY if I'm interested. Then I'll think about it. No more affairs means no more. I'm not interested in going back to being worried about where he is off to. I'm not interested in stressing myself out so I get sick. I love him BUT I love myself too.
_________________________
Me& h + S
M: 13 t: 14

H moved 2/12. Own apt 05/12, EAs, PAs, gfriends, oh my!
I'm done. 12/12

"I get knocked down, but I get up again.. you're never gonna keep me down" Chumbawumba

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#2239048 - 04/19/12 01:10 AM (NA) Re: What is going on here... and what do I do? [Re: LIO]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
LIO, you've got spunk. I know only a few women like you and it's always... interesting. smile

You should start to get some feedback in a bit. Partly due to the moderation needs when people first register and also partly due to folks being focused on current members, newbie threads can get lost.

Consider yourself found. smile

I admit I skimmed your first post but will have to go through your posts again. I have a pretty good feel for where you are currently at based on the last couple.

Yes, confronting the OP is not recommended. Thankfully it went fairly well for you and it "appears" that you have her co-operation... but... in past experience with others in your sitch (IRL and here)... you may find a smoke and mirror condition come into play as your H makes a case to OW or some new OW...

You have some great boundaries in place and going LRT is likely the right move ATM as is holding to the 37 rules...

While you are doing that, consider... your actions towards him appear punitive... and you have every right to be angry, upset, frustrated...

How long are you planning on keeping him in the dog house... because... well... let's just say that I have a feeling that you would otherwise be letting him back into his life within a relatively short period of time and things will be back to "normal" for you and him...

4 or 5 OWs over the last 15 years and you keep taking him back... and have a child with him... sounds like a pattern, there...

Any plans on breaking that habit?

Since your here on the DB forums now... now is the time to look at that pattern and how / why it keeps repeating itself ('cause that's what patterns do) and what you might do to change that.

Any thoughts?

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#2239050 - 04/19/12 01:23 AM (NA) Re: What is going on here... and what do I do? [Re: ~ kd ~]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
NB: I see you do have plans to break the habit...

So let me ask you... you say the line has been drawn and you aren't going to erase the line... this time...

You erased the line before... why?

You say you want him to experience the consequences... did you not allow him to experience the consequences before? If so, did he learn? If not, why now?

You say you will let him back this time... IF he goes to MC and IF you are interested...

Well... has he ever filed before? Because he has now...

So... are you really sure who is in the driver's seat this time?

Because you may have had him crawl back to you previously... this time... could be for real...

So what's your plan in that case...? how confident are you that his pattern of returning will repeat this time...? And if his pattern repeats...

Well... what then?

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#2239180 - 04/19/12 11:34 AM (NA) Re: What is going on here... and what do I do? [Re: ~ kd ~]
LIO Offline
Member

Registered: 04/09/12
Posts: 227
Loc: NW USA
Maybe 'lines' aren't the best description as I never verbalized the them as far as "You do this or this will happen." Which also means that there hasn't been any consequences for him. Just disappointment for me. Things like "I would like you to be home at night" or "Can we go out once a month" or "I feel like our schedules aren't working. Can we figure out something that does?" I guess they are requests. Each time he has ignored and denied my requests.

The affairs from years ago, I didn't know about until 2 years ago. It wasn't as if I took him back each time and said 'ok, we will work through this.' When I found out about them all at the same time via his confession 2 years ago, I did a complete 180 in my behavior - turning myself into a 'good wife'. It's not that I minded because I wanted to be a nice and kind wife, I just don't understand why he would have another affair (that I just found out above 3 days ago). The bottom line is that I trusted him because he said he would never do it again and he felt bad. So I believed him. Now looking back, it doesn't appear like he really put his heart into fixing whatever it was that caused him to do it. I don't know how to help him with that. I thought counseling would work through it, but he doesn't want to go atm. So if he doesn't want to work on it, what am I supposed to do? Keep going on this cycle?

I don't think I'm in the driver's seat at all. AND he's never crawled back or returned from anything. He's never had any consequences before. So if the divorce does happen - then okay. I don't want him crawling back. I want him to figure out what can make him happy in this relationship.
_________________________
Me& h + S
M: 13 t: 14

H moved 2/12. Own apt 05/12, EAs, PAs, gfriends, oh my!
I'm done. 12/12

"I get knocked down, but I get up again.. you're never gonna keep me down" Chumbawumba

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#2239196 - 04/19/12 12:11 PM (NA) Re: What is going on here... and what do I do? [Re: LIO]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
ok, that puts a more understandable spin on things...

He was always safe and comfortable before the "reveal"... so while you probably exploded... he'd already shown his "re-commitment" to you... in a way, manipulating (even unconsciously) the potential fallout and consequences...

You mentioned above that you needed to get a new copy of DB because you thought things were better and so got rid of the original one since you didn't think you'd need it...

Many of the vets who saved their Ms will tell you (and anyone in a healthy, long term M will say this)... the work never ends... we're never "out of the woods" until the M is done... however that might look...

That doesn't mean paranoid... it means keep working on the R... always striving to grow as a couple...

Also, you mention that your H didn't fix whatever caused him to have the As...

We say here that an A is a symptom, so I agree that you spoke of that... but generally speaking... the betrayed spouse is the cause...

Let me qualify that for you, though...

You indicate that you became the "good wife" because that is who you like to be, anyhow... how could you be the cause? But it works this way... you weren't meeting his needs... so he looked elsewhere...

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that perhaps the only need he was looking for was a new sexual position... he didn't know how to ask that of you, so he actually managed to find a new partner who provided him with a new sexual position... even though the only difference in the position, was the position of the bed...

Again, I'm going to be careful with my language because we promote DB here. But sometimes men are just looking for something different... a NEW challenge... and if he's not finding that in you, then as mentioned... he eventually gets "bored" and looks elsewhere...

That can't really be "changed" in a man... he can't "fix" that... or for all intents and purposes, he'd die inside...

I'm by no means trying to suggest your H is "right"... what he needed to fix is his ability to ask you for what he wanted. But if he asked, and you couldn't hear... because he did not know how to ask in a way that you would hear... or he did not feel heard... that is his fault... he should not be seeking elsewhere, or he should have chosen been gone the first time, IMHO...

So in DB parlance, that equates to communication and possibly 180s...

We do say here that the best we can do is to learn, grow, and become the best person we can be... to be a person that only a fool would leave... and if your H chooses to be that fool, then that is his loss...

What are some things that your H may have complained about, regarding you?

What are some things he's generally complemented you about?

What kind of GAL activities might you get involved in?

What type of 180s might you try?

As I mentioned above, perhaps he's just looking for "different"... If you can find something that's a little more different than "comfy house wife..." you know, perhaps seductress or dominatrix... it might interest him... that might be a 180 you could try...

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#2239374 - 04/19/12 10:34 PM (NA) Re: What is going on here... and what do I do? [Re: ~ kd ~]
LIO Offline
Member

Registered: 04/09/12
Posts: 227
Loc: NW USA
Ok I'm thinking about some of these questions above Kaffe Diem. Very good - thank you, I get lost in my own head too much!

Yes, seductress would actually work better for me at this point. IF sex was an option. Right now he's heartbroken with OW not in the picture. It's not exactly the right opportunity for me atm. But... maybe in a few weeks. Hopefully. In the meantime, that doesn't mean I can't look the part until then.

I'm trying to think of things he's complemented me on. Honestly, it's been awhile. Generally he says I'm a good mom and I'm nice. He never compliments me really. He likes it when I work on my projects. He would say I did a good job on some task that I get excited about. A long time ago, he used to like that I would draw and he complimented some of my cartoons. He doesn't care about anything I do right now - so I have to do it for me.

Things he's complained about: me being jealous. Me doing his laundry (i've stopped). Me following him around the house (yes, rule #4).

Today I'm working on being in a good mood. I don't want to come across as overly excited or forced. Our conversations are awkward. He's just responding in one/two word sentences... if that.

I did talk to him briefly on the phone. I saw one of his captions indicating that yesterday was a bad day (as is today). I'm sure it's in relation to the OW. I said "I saw your post, I'm sorry that you are having a bad day today and yesterday. I know your heart is broken. [pause pause pause] It's rough and I really feel for you." It was quite and he responded quietly with 'thank you'. I said 'ok' and we hung up.

I am empathetic towards him. I can understand broken heart better than anyone else right now. But I'm not going to 'share' that feeling with him. He can't deal with my feelings yet and I'm not asking him to right now. And I don't want to bond over him being heartbroken over OW.

180's I'm doing:
I no longer have access to his email. I thanked him for that saying that I would use it read between the lines and make assumptions on his feelings when he is perfectly capable of expressing them. I told him it was less stressful for me as well and he should have his privacy.

I moved my stuff out of his office so he can have his own space.

I'm not talking and following him around. Well today I've been successful. Yesterday, no. It's hard but I'm talking to you all here.

I am making sure I wear makeup and am dressed in something other than PJs and sweat clothes when he sees me. I've lost about 10 pounds in 2 weeks.

I'm not blowing up his email and phone today. I haven't texted him at all. I really don't want to talk on the phone with him right now. It's too hard to hear his heartbreak and not want to say 'what about me!?' as I'm waiting to be served with paperwork.

I also tell him jokes from time to time. He seems to enjoy that. He's not open yet - but it's only been 2 days since confrontation with him and OW.

GAL activities
I'm going to go to church. I'll invite him this Sunday, but I'm going anyway.
I'm working on cleaning up the house. I want this to be less messy.
I'm taking up walking right now. I don't have the energy with much anything else to get back into my weight training. Maybe I will when I can eat.




Lesson I've learned that hopefully will help other DB'ers. When they say don't contact OW DO NOT! Do not confront spouse either. It's hard to say if he would have served me or not with divorce papers as he seemed to have them already filled in. It definitely makes our interaction very stilted now.
_________________________
Me& h + S
M: 13 t: 14

H moved 2/12. Own apt 05/12, EAs, PAs, gfriends, oh my!
I'm done. 12/12

"I get knocked down, but I get up again.. you're never gonna keep me down" Chumbawumba

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#2239411 - 04/20/12 01:30 AM (NA) Re: What is going on here... and what do I do? [Re: LIO]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
ok, great stuff LIO.

Remember, this is all baby step stuff that you want to go forward with. 15 years...? What's an extra year starting at a nice, stable position.

Yes, he will have to "get over" his loss. He's an idiot... you know it... but... he's an idiot you'd be ready to keep if he got his act together...

But... first, he's going to have to want to try again...

second... you're going to have to decide if you want him back, this time... and then be clear that there will be no more of this nonsense from him... as you appear to not be too appreciative of it...

again, not to think too far ahead here... but if it finally comes to a point that your M is back to good shape, you keep the changes going and the two of you are meeting the needs of each other and growing together in healthy ways...

so yes... giving him a taste of what he may be missing in the future if he does not choose this mission... is a great idea... no candy for him at this time... he needs to do his own work and show that he wants back... but he is more likely to want back if he knows what he'll be missing...

baby steps...

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