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#2238080 - 04/15/12 10:32 PM Re: Seeing Lawyers tomorrow...even more hopeless [Re: hopingandpraying]
paige40 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/13/11
Posts: 431
Glad you had a great weekend of fun! I think we could all use one of those. I know I could.

My H has gone against everything he ever said and everything I ever knew to be true also. I think that is how they can just walk away they are lost and have lost their way.

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#2238092 - 04/15/12 11:31 PM Re: Seeing Lawyers tomorrow...even more hopeless [Re: hopingandpraying]
YankeeCandle Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 335
Sounds like you had a total blast! Good for you and hopefully you will have many more of those days to come smile

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#2238152 - 04/16/12 07:00 AM Re: Seeing Lawyers tomorrow...even more hopeless [Re: hopingandpraying]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10875
Loc: west coast
Originally Posted By: hopingandpraying
I agree with showing emotion too because how can I act as if all the time. Hopefully I can do it next time. We will see because ive lost most hope...


You only have to act as if, when you are around him, which isn't much. The affair is probably still going on IN SOME FORM so give that time to wear off...

he likes the "Being in love" feeling and doesn't seem to know that marriages are not always a blast and don't always feel good or easy. So some of that wears off naturally (or else how could we finish college or work on a project??)

Love IS at least partly a CHOICE...

and we have to make the choice every day even if our spouses are not lovable that day.

Stop pursuing and stop taking the r's temperature. Your r has been an 8 year relationship & it's said that a month of CHANGE is needed for WAS to believe it's real. so at least 8 months needs to be "allowed" for him to even process things.
AND for you to show him the new you...

Don't talk about whether you could get past this or forgive him.

1) for one thing, you have done zero forgiveness work, which starts with letting go of the past and what you cannot control. It's early in this ordeal for that.

And 2)

if he believes you would always hold the affair over his head or throw it in his face when you fight -right or wrong -

he won't come home.

(But don't go verbally correcting that image of his UNLESS he says something about it, and then be vague about "lessons" you are "learning and letting go of the past to start a new r" etc.

Be warm and upbeat like he's a friend who is making a sad mistake --but one from which YOU will recover, but that you sort of pity him for making b/c it's a huge mess...)

Another way of putting that is this:

Unless your h believes marriage to you from this day forward

could be better/different than before, he won't want to reconcile.


What are YOU doing to show him that change?

I know you are hurting. But I have not heard a single 180 of yours.

So are you saying you have no flaws or traits you'd like to work on?

No positives to counter his negatives with? You can do othing to undermine his justifications for leaving?

I'm NOT justifying his affair or blaming you.


I am trying to stop your helpless feeling and get you to

focus on what you CAN change, which is only YOU. Be a woman only a fool would leave.

What does she look like? Who did he fall in love with



Finally sidenote--can you really afford the mortgage once he's gone? We just tried to refinance and our home values have dropped locally, so now we don't have enough equity to fit into their formulas...are you positive this is a good idea?

You're getting great advice from Accuray and others. Pay attention and give yourself way more time before you take the R's temperature again.

There is hope but you have your own work to do. Focus on that for now.

It's all you can control anyhow - so you may as well become your best self to make this ordeal an experience that isn't totally negative.

As much pain as you are in, it is NOT fatal or eternal.

How long it lasts is at least partly, if not totally, in your control...

You will more than survive this...

have you read the Detachment pieces or the 37 "rules" for newbies here?
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

Top
#2238174 - 04/16/12 01:19 PM Re: Seeing Lawyers tomorrow...even more hopeless [Re: 25yearsmlc]
hopingandpraying Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 283
Thanks 25,

First, I can afford the house on my own, because we originally financed under one salary, which was his and he made less then, so I can afford the mortgage on my own.

Second, as for 180s, the only thing that he complained about was that I was not affectionate around him over the past year. This I cannot change, because we're not around each other. The only other thing that I can think of is to be more positive around him and not bring up the R or A because this is something that I tend to do because it does bother me. I have said everything that I feel I need to say to him, so I think it will be easier to not bring up the R or A.

I will have to think more deeply on that, but as for 180s that I can think of now:
*be more positive and upbeat when I'm around him (He fell in love with the bubbly/outgoing personality.)
*more forgiving of people's mistakes
*do not offer my insight or opinion unless he asks me
*do not call, text, or email (6 days strong on this one! :))

Once again, I will think about more 180s and work on them. My biggest thing right now, I think, is really acting 'as if' when he's around (which you're right is not much).

Thank you again for your advice. It puts things into perspective and gets me thinking. It's just hard, which is no excuse and you know it's hard because you've been through it. I wish I had your strength and perseverance and could get these DB moves down quicker. I wish I would have done better with them when I found out about certain parts of his affair!
_________________________
M: 27 H: 28 T: 8 yrs M: 6 yrs
Sep: 2/18/12 (I have no feelings for you!)
EA/PA Uncovered: 2/26/12
H introduces OW to his fam: June
H moves ALL stuff out: July

I'm living my truth without your lies..

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#2238346 - 04/16/12 08:48 PM Re: Seeing Lawyers tomorrow...even more hopeless [Re: hopingandpraying]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10875
Loc: west coast
Don't think it was easy or that I was great at it b/c I was doing it for two years.

In fact, the first several months I was NOT DBing b/c I didn't know what it was. We saw 2 marriage counselors, or 3, who blamed my h for "acting single" and "being selfish and putting himself first" etc

Even though that validated my perception, it did nothing for me as far as knowing what TO DO about it, except file for divorce AND

my h became convinced that I had "brainwashed the mc's" to take my side - so it was useless to continue. Many of them tended to re-hash the past and that was not solution based, although that term was unknown to me until I found DBing.

Eventually I found a MC (for awhile he was MY IC) who was pro-marriage and solution based and he said that if my life wasn't changing or if I wasn't being noticeably helped by him within 5-6 sessions, then I'd need someone else. He was goal oriented and it DID help.

He and I didn't re-hash the past or re-live traumas or try to correct the past or get even w/my h. There is not getting even or seeing the past identically. You have to back off enough so that the positive memories get a chance to re-surface.

Right now, the more you argue against or challenge your h's choices, the more he defends them.
When he defends the choices he gets them more entrenched in his head/heart. Don't corner him into HAVING to be "right"...

this is not about being right, it's about being happy.

Don't fight his choices now....don't help him either, but don't fight or challenge or question them.

By backing off and letting him discover the grass is greener where you water it the most, at least you won't slow down his learning process.

So you must let him figure this puzzle out for himself.

And btw, it took me several months to really "Get" this, and

I'm not sure how long I could have done it for if I had not had an internal timeline/deadline for my oldest d to graduate from high school.

That was a 2 year goal, in total, and that goal enabled me to know that
I would not be in limbo forever - and that in the meantime

I was going to GAL and I really did do a good job of GAL. THAT part is something I did well pretty early on.


IT helped me the most and

then I felt better about myself, became more of my former better self

and the rest started to click AFTER I got into DBing and GAL...


But there are such things as dealbreakers...

If the affair is something you know in your heart you cannot ever get past

then ask yourself

if you are fighting "FOR" your marriage, or simply "to win" and not be the rejected one.

I don't mean that to be insulting. It is a question WE ALL have to ask ourselves at some point.

I can tell you though I'm glad I'm with my h now, I could NOT do another round of this

so for ME, that would be a dealbreaker...b/c

We'd be done & I'd never look back.

But What I learned is that my dealbreakers were fewer than I realized and that I could put up with a lot if my children were affected...you don't have kids and in that sense you are lucky.

You are free to make a choice with only your happiness (and his) in mind.
Make sure you are.

Those questions about wanting to stay married vs just winning, and

whether you really could get past this

are not questions to take lightly.
Reflect on them and pray on it and seek the truth of it. You may be able to forgive more than you think.

I can tell you that for me forgiveness had to be learned b/c I never saw it growing up. Letting go of what I cannot control has been among the greatest life lessons I've learned here, for just how to be content.

But only YOU can make these choices-

and you being happy is NOT up to your h...it's all up to you, regardless of HIS choices.


Hang in there. This is a marathon, not a sprint.
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

Top
#2238351 - 04/16/12 08:58 PM Re: Seeing Lawyers tomorrow...even more hopeless [Re: 25yearsmlc]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10875
Loc: west coast
ps

when he says you were not as affectionate, how much truth is there to that?

Also did you with hold sex from him? Sometimes spouses use sex, even subconsciously, as a tool to get something they want.

It's not very healthy...and for many men, ML is the way they feel connected to their spouse so if they feel rejected often enough, then they can feel very unloved & lonely IN the marriage...

and if someone at work or elsewhere in their life, pays attention to them at that vulnerable time and he is not strong enough or healthy enough to stay faithful, it goes downhill fast...

In normal marriages, there is real difficulty when you have little ones who take up all your sleep time and wreak havoc, although temporarily, with your hormones and level of desire.

Most long term successful marriages (>20 years) report their lowest level of marital satisfaction was the first 2-3 years after their 2nd child was born.

I think it's mostly the reasons above...lack of sleep, lack of free time, less time for intimacy and the temporary change in the woman's body & how the man handles not being the only love in his wife's life.

That's when other love languages really have to be spoken more, b/c we all need to feel valued by our spouse and show them their value to us, even when we don't feel well.

But you have no children yet.

So if you did withhold affection or made love less, why do you think that happened?

If it did not happen that way, why do you think he says this?

Does he really believe it, as far as you can tell? Did he ever say a word about it the past year or so?
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

Top
#2238370 - 04/16/12 09:53 PM Re: Seeing Lawyers tomorrow...even more hopeless [Re: 25yearsmlc]
hopingandpraying Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 283
Thanks 25!

I do think that I could really forgive him and work through things with him. It may take awhile, but I am willing to do that, because I really do think we have something special. I always thought it was a deal breaker and that's what my H has said to me...he doesn't see me getting over this because I've always said that I would end a marriage over cheating...especially a PA.

As for the affection, this past year has been difficult for us, because he was trying to earn my trust back from texting a girl from work over year ago. I, think it took me maybe 6 months to get over that and not talk about her at all. I was a little hesitant at first about being close to him and affectionate because I didn't feel the connection with him and he didn't seem like he was really 'in' our relationship.

Then, around, July-ish, I snapped out of it and was more loving towards him and affectionate. Our sex life, I think, and he never really complained about was good! He also mentioned that I was not appreciative of the things he was trying to do to get my trust back, which were
*staying home
*coming straight home from work (no breakfast with friends)
*spending more time with me
I was appreciative of these things and told him that they were working, but I always knew in the back of my mind that they wouldn't work for him, because he wasn't doing things to make him happy. He was always at home or at work and that's not what I wanted.

I felt and so did he, that he needed to make more of a change with himself internally and try to find this happiness in life that he couldn't find. Anytime that he gets 'down' on life, his MO is to just 'restart' his whole life and start from scratch.

That is what he wanted to do a year and a half ago when he texted and went to breakfast with this other girl from work. It was his new 'high' in life and he wanted to restart his whole life. After he got over this (took about 3 months), he explained that this point in his life was a form of suicide and he didn't know what was going on. He promised me that nothing like this or worse would ever happen again...but it did and it IS worse!!

I'm just so confused because I feel like this is EXACTLY what he did, but worse! I just don't understand how someone could throw away 6 great years and 2 rocky years for a lifetime that could be wonderful!!!
_________________________
M: 27 H: 28 T: 8 yrs M: 6 yrs
Sep: 2/18/12 (I have no feelings for you!)
EA/PA Uncovered: 2/26/12
H introduces OW to his fam: June
H moves ALL stuff out: July

I'm living my truth without your lies..

Top
#2238375 - 04/16/12 10:13 PM Re: Seeing Lawyers tomorrow...even more hopeless [Re: hopingandpraying]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10875
Loc: west coast

Asking "why??" Is pointless and counterproductive b/c it keeps YOU STUCK.

It's irrelevant anyhow b/c to HIM something was missing in his life.

It may be a spiritual crisis, an emotional one, a behavioral or all three. It may have fully involved the marriage.

But telling him that you can be happy and have a "great life"

when it's been rocky for 2 years won't make sense to him AT THIS TIME...

Plus I am wondering--

Is this such an aberration in his behavior - OR is this a pattern for him?

We are only looking at the texts/ EAs and a PA that you know of.

And already there IS a bit of a pattern in that, and the marriage did not get repaired then when the first EA happened...nor did he get therapy (or if he did, it did not take. No offense, but He sounds emotionally very immature or unstable. Does he see a shrink or take meds?)

When you had that first crisis in the marriage, you rejected him b/c you were hurt and

he said he tried to get your trust back by doing things YOU dont' believe he was alright with. But wouldn't that have been a good time to work on the marriage in a solution based way?

I'm not saying "too late now"!!

just wondering why YOU think marriage to him now,

would be any better or different?

IF it's possible for him to realize the mistake he's making AND to try and repair the marriage

it will NOT be b/c of you pursuing him. It'll be b/c HE discovers it on his own and

YOU GAL so then when you two interact (and you will interact if you two have been together since such a young age. It's just too hard to toss out all that history without missing the person, though it guarantees nothing)--

THEN you can be upbeat and warm and the woman he fell in love with. And you'll run into 3rd parties who know you both and you can "act as if" then too. Word will get back to him. No one misses a miserable person who makes them feel guilty. For a lot of men, guilt converts into blame or anger, fast...

But make sure you are not simply holding on b/c you don't want to be alone.

Some folks hate being alone.

The one thing for sure worse than being alone, is wishing you were.
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

Top
#2238395 - 04/16/12 11:44 PM Re: Seeing Lawyers tomorrow...even more hopeless [Re: 25yearsmlc]
hopingandpraying Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 283
I do wish we were more solution based last time because I was so STUCK on his EA. I think marriage to him would be different this time around because I know what I have missed and I know that we both need help and aren't perfect.

He did seek psychological help, but only went once and did not like the counselor or psychologist. He, then, went again a week after we split this time and said the counseling appt was crap and did not go to his second appt...he cancelled it. However, his primary doctor, who referred him to the psychologist, did prescribe Zoloft for him based on what he was describing to the doctor--anxiety at red lights, pacing and near crying when he reads about service members' memorials but does not care about anyone else dying, his dissatisfaction with life in general and always looking for something more...

He was on the meds for 2 weeks but did not like the side effects and went off of them. I don't even think he gave them time to kick in, but who am I to say anything to him.

This is a pattern of his type of behavior:
*During his sophomore year of hs, he dropped all grammar school friends and stayed in for 6 months, because he did not like hanging out with them anymore. He found new hs friends, a gf, and started hanging out with new ppl.
*He stayed close friends with all of these friends until sophomore yr of college, and then pretty much dropped them all, too including his gf of almost 4 years. He just said he didn't have feelings for her anymore. He dropped out of college and joined the Marines.
*Two months later we started dating and he left for boot camp 2 months after we started dating.
*4 years of Active Marine Service...honorable discharge and regrets getting out.
*Happy with his life for about 6 1/2 years (up until a year and a half ago) and now wants to restart ALL of it!!!!

He says it would be one thing to be tempted by other girls, but since he's actually had a PA, he feels that what we have is just gone!!
_________________________
M: 27 H: 28 T: 8 yrs M: 6 yrs
Sep: 2/18/12 (I have no feelings for you!)
EA/PA Uncovered: 2/26/12
H introduces OW to his fam: June
H moves ALL stuff out: July

I'm living my truth without your lies..

Top
#2238457 - 04/17/12 03:24 AM Re: Seeing Lawyers tomorrow...even more hopeless [Re: hopingandpraying]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10875
Loc: west coast
then I guess there is a pattern, AND he has problems that he's not working on.

So the ONLY question for you now is,

what are YOU going to do

to create a happy fulfilling life for yourself, with or w/o him?

Try this "exercise" please...b/c it really helped me.

Please envision something for me--

Imagine your life 5 years from now, without your h in it,

but w/you being happy...

what would it look like?

Now Imagine IN DETAIL who you'd likely be hanging around with or what types and where you'd spend your time...how would your career change or grow?

Would you take up any new hobbies or restart old ones? Any sports teams or dance classes?

Speaking of classes-have you always wondered about studying the cuisine of another culture? (Of course I have French parents and we love French and Italian food) so cooking classes were a must.

Or maybe learning another language or even an auto safety class (talk about meeting people). How about travelling?

Yes It's likely you'd have someone in your life by then but regardless, this vision is a positive one so we know you are not "lonely" in it...

SO imagine this new, happy life for yourself and flesh it out...what's it look like?? Take your time...


Now, what of those things can you being doing now?
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

Top
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