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adinva #2231071 03/16/12 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted By: adinva
Today when H got home I was just taking meatloaf out of the oven and offered him some, and he ate and mentioned he was going to the gym (I'm adding all of this so it doesn't look like I came running out of the house nagging about counseling as he drove up smile ) and then I told him how much I appreciated him being there yesterday and mentioned how S14 hadn't believed that H was really in on the whole idea of it. H talked to S11 a little about it. Not beating a dead horse, but I thanked him.

But we're still probably getting divorced.



Right, so you just had cue cards prepared? How would you have felt if H had said: "I really appreciate you bothering to go to family C. S14 didn't think you could be bothered. So, it was really great you were there. I'm so proud of you for being a half-decent mother for once."

Because, the message you couldn't wait to zap H with was pretty similar.

The question I have is: When you get ammunition against H, why do you feel so compelled to use it while pretending you aren't?


Best,
Oldtimer
oldtimer #2231137 03/16/12 01:39 PM
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That's an interesting take on it OT!

Communication is so difficult because the message you're trying to send is morphed by the recipient's thoughts and beliefs and experiences. H could very well have heard that as a put down instead of an affirmation.

That could be why DB seems to promote keeping a lot of your words to yourself.

It's a dilemma that to communicate I feel like I need some latitude. I need to be able to make a mistake and have someone give me feedback that my message was misinterpreted, so I have a chance to clarify. That's what a dialog is. I feel with H, and in the situation as you reframed it, trying to say something is like catapulting my message over a fort wall - you get one chance, no do overs, no clarifications.

So, thinking about your question (obviously my first reaction is what?! no I don't!). Hmm. What I get ammunition against H, why do I feel compelled to use it while pretending I'm not.
- ammunition: when my worldview doesn't match his, I assume I'm right. I very much thought this appointment was important. He had said it was to him too. My ammunition was that H has been adamantly avoiding counseling in our past when it could have helped us and in our present when he says it is pointless. So I suppose I was firing off a shot of resentment that he won't give us the same fighting chance he's willing to give the kids. Am I close OT?
- why I feel compelled to use it. Hmm. Well, I didn't recognize it before it came out. I still thought I was praising him. I was hoping the positive feedback would give him a good feeling about the next appointment in two weeks. I was hoping the reference to S14 would show him that our teen has already some of the resistance and skepticism about seeing a counselor H and I both believe he would benefit from. Its the macho attitude so valued in our home and by my H. I'm proud of H that he's being a role model for S14 to be open to such help. No one was that role model for H.
- why I would pretend I'm not? Passive aggressiveness is a problem for me, as for H. Since we're not talking much it's hard to know if I'm improving only in my mind or if I can apply my new insight in action too. I'm finding that I still need practice, huh?

So OT, help me rewrite that scene. As equally decent parents was this not an occasion for thanks at all? Was there anything that could have been said about it? Perhaps instead of praising his "showing up" I could have praised specifically how well I thought he stated his feeling about bullying - it really seemed like it got through to S14 how important this was. Would that have been better?


Adinva 51, S20, S18
M24 total
6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out
9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50
5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend
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Happiness is a warm puppy.
adinva #2231145 03/16/12 01:54 PM
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This was very instructive for me, too.

I was raised in an environment where things often had double meanings. Giving a compliment while twisting the knife is in my DNA.

I look forward to more.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
oldtimer #2231177 03/16/12 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: oldtimer
Right, so you just had cue cards prepared? How would you have felt if H had said: "I really appreciate you bothering to go to family C. S14 didn't think you could be bothered. So, it was really great you were there. I'm so proud of you for being a half-decent mother for once."

Because, the message you couldn't wait to zap H with was pretty similar.

The question I have is: When you get ammunition against H, why do you feel so compelled to use it while pretending you aren't?


Wow! This really hit me between the eyes. I know I have done this, and even more so recently upon finding out about my H's affair (and knowing things he doesn't think I know). Definitely will be thinking about this today.


Me:37
H:GONE

Happy and loving life.
RoRoinMD #2231184 03/16/12 03:34 PM
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OT, would love for you to respond again. Am I getting your point?


Adinva 51, S20, S18
M24 total
6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out
9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50
5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend
__
Happiness is a warm puppy.
adinva #2231197 03/16/12 04:15 PM
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Sure, "I really appreciated the way you handled the bullying issue, it helped me understand how to talk about it and I think it will have a big effect on S."

The ammunition I was thinking of was the bit about S not thinking H would come. My guess is that, in addition to distress of various sorts, you felt a wee bit of satisfaction when S made the commend and that you shared S's comment with H to try to teach him a lesson/pull a told-you-so.

At this point probably best to leave it alone.


Best,
Oldtimer
labug #2231201 03/16/12 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: labug
This was very instructive for me, too.

I was raised in an environment where things often had double meanings. Giving a compliment while twisting the knife is in my DNA.

I look forward to more.


Yes, La Bug! ME TOO!


Me:37
H:GONE

Happy and loving life.
RoRoinMD #2231216 03/16/12 05:47 PM
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Nicely put OT. Your version sounded respectful without false praise.

I took your comment the extra mile because thanking someone for a normal act of parenting that they may have been absent from previously is a sort of back handed compliment, and you were right in pointing it out.

The thing with S14's comment could be perceived as not very nice of me, or perceived as a useful observation of how S14 may be starting to see manliness and emotion as mutually exclusive because that is how H has acted. It is quite a surprise to me that H has set foot in a therapist's office this year but unfortunately it only could happen after he decided he was done. I would love to teach my boys it's ok to work on relationships and they can get better. But in our short conversation, that's not what came across, as OT noted.

Thanks for the help OT! It's very hard for me to bare myself to criticism but I find each time I can grow a little bit from it. Was nice of you to slap me around some.

Adinva


Adinva 51, S20, S18
M24 total
6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out
9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50
5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend
__
Happiness is a warm puppy.
adinva #2231233 03/16/12 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: adinva
It's very hard for me to bare myself to criticism but I find each time I can grow a little bit from it. Was nice of you to slap me around some.


Adinva - I think you are actually a very open and brave person. You constantly show a willingness to listen and to change and improve.
You are an inspiration for me. :-)


Me & H: 44
D7, D6, S3
Together: 20y, M: 17y
EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10
EA becomes PA: Spring 2011
H filed for D: 09/06/12
D Negotiating began 2/15
OW seemingly gone on 3/15
Still negotiating D






keep_going #2231689 03/19/12 11:12 AM
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KG thank you so much for your kind words!


Adinva 51, S20, S18
M24 total
6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out
9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50
5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend
__
Happiness is a warm puppy.
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