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[/b]thanks so much kd for all you've written. there have been so many developments here since i last posted that my head is spinning.

about being friendly with him - this is a really difficult arena for me - all through our relationship i used withdrawal and disassociating to "punish" h. my big 180 has been to stay right there, smile and really face things instead of turning away.

i know that this has had a positive effect - h has told me several times that i have been amazing during this sitch - and he never imagined i could be that way

about the "we" thing - the reason i'm asking is because - i haven't heard him say "we " once since this sitch started, and then after his trip, he suddenly started using "we" again

no - in my heart, i can't bear the idea of being friends with him while he is "treating me this way". but my instinct tells me that that is the only way to touch his heart - he has a real thing about me not accepting him the way he is - and i really believe that when i am friendly, relaxed and at ease around him, he doesn't feel me judging him as he always felt all the years.

i will acknowledge that for myself it is very strange - i have no problem at all being at ease around him - and it feels completely okay, but afterwards, i fall apart - i haven't found out what that means for me - just the emotional effort? i don't know - because strangely enough, i don't feel as if i'm making any effort. i think it's because i feel how good the vibes are between us when he's there, and then he still walks away - and that's what makes me fall apart

please please help me with the following - mil told me the whole actual conversation finally this afternoon. part of it went like this:

mil: what if you and zig get back together, what will you do with the house?
h: well, i imagine zig would like to move in here, because this is where she's always wanted to live (it's true - almost the exact block) and then we could sell our house (that's the one i'm living in now)

i was frankly astounded at his answer - i would've expected him to say "we're not getting back together"

trust me, i am NOT getting my hopes up, at all - there is no reason to right now. but could this at least mean that it is in the realm of possibility, for him to answer like that.

i know, i know, stupid question

[b]There are also ways to go dark and I think LRT covers them, along with the 37 rules, that allow you to go quite "dim" but not dark. Meaning that you don't start conversations, but then you don't avoid or ignore them if they are started by your H and do not revolve around the kids. That's how I did dark with my W, I did NOT engage in conversations that did not have to do with the kids or the separation agreement...


i've basically done that for months now - maybe slipped a couple of times in the r talk - for a couple of sentences, but h immediately says let's not go there.

the weird thing is he's not doing the lashing out and railing thing at me anymore.

i'm hesitating about the let - because i did go as dark as i could for a few months and it didn't seem to help - except now when i right that, i realize, that that's not true - i was emotionally doing way better when i did that - now actually since i started being more friendly, is when i started doing pretty badly

on the other hand after many months of staying pretty dim, only when i went less dark did h start showing that he wanted to be more around - maybe just mirroring? i don't know. or was he just respecting my boundaries and then when i loosened them he could stride right in where he left off

i think i do need to go dark - how do i suddenly do that? or gradually? do i stop going to the therapy with him? tell him i need some space to work through my own stuff?

he's coming over in a little while to talk - i'm not going to say anything about this. not till i've worked it out in my head for myself

i sent s to mil's for dinner and the night - just can't handle being a mom right now - just need little break for this evening.i need to pul myself out of this hole i'm in and start moving on. one last thing to tell h before i do that - it's about some messed up stuff with the movement disorder that i need to own and get off my chest - i've been wanting to tell him for well over a year, but haven't been able to. this whole emotional crisis the past few days has made me realize that if i don't let him know about this, the 3 of us cannot move forward and heal.

and we very much need to do that - yesterday he said to me - i want this tension between us to be gone - what i need to tell him is very much a part of that. it's going to take a great deal of courage to tell him and i'm really nervous - but it feels really right and it helps me to take one more step forward in the right direction

i'm letting him go, i know that - and taking the time to heal for myself

i'm not worried about sending him packing with LRT - i'm focusing on sending myself packing from this sitch (weak watery, teary eyed smile)


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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zig Offline OP
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oops - didn't realize half the post was bolded - sorry about that


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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zig Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
ALSO, him ASKING his parents for a loan... to set up the house...???

That is a HUGE difference than them stepping in and saying, "here. here is a house because you should be moving on and starting your own life and having a 'home' for s."

Can you see how it is different?




yes - i see the difference now - they weren't outright enabling him, but they also weren't saying no. which mil admits openly

later this afternoon, she told me that she was going to say no about the house. i found myself saying - let go and let god - that i didn't want to manipulate the sitch in any way - i said that if he is determined, he would find another way. that it's true that their denying him this would maybe, and that's a very big maybe, make him pause and inspect what he is doing. on the other hand it may not, and he would just find another way

i don't know what she will ultimately decide - but it doesn't really matter in the big pic - him getting or not getting the house doesn't really affect the sitch -

thanks kd


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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Hi Zig,

Just wanted to let you know that I am SO going through similar things at the moment. I don't have much in the way of advice - but felt I should reach out to let you know that I feel what you're going through here.

My heart goes out to you.
Originally Posted By: zig
[/b]
about being friendly with him - this is a really difficult arena for me - all through our relationship i used withdrawal and disassociating to "punish" h. my big 180 has been to stay right there, smile and really face things instead of turning away.

i know that this has had a positive effect - h has told me several times that i have been amazing during this sitch - and he never imagined i could be that way

This is my sitch exactly Zig. It creates a bind (!) though doesn't it, when LRT is called for?

no - in my heart, i can't bear the idea of being friends with him while he is "treating me this way". but my instinct tells me that that is the only way to touch his heart - he has a real thing about me not accepting him the way he is - and i really believe that when i am friendly, relaxed and at ease around him, he doesn't feel me judging him as he always felt all the years.

Again, we are in the same boat - I judged almost everything he did.

i will acknowledge that for myself it is very strange - i have no problem at all being at ease around him - and it feels completely okay, but afterwards, i fall apart - i haven't found out what that means for me - just the emotional effort? i don't know - because strangely enough, i don't feel as if i'm making any effort. i think it's because i feel how good the vibes are between us when he's there, and then he still walks away - and that's what makes me fall apart

Yes, yes, Isn't this weird? Things seem so good and yet, H still walks away and is not moved an iota from his original position.


[b]There are also ways to go dark and I think LRT covers them, along with the 37 rules, that allow you to go quite "dim" but not dark. Meaning that you don't start conversations, but then you don't avoid or ignore them if they are started by your H and do not revolve around the kids. That's how I did dark with my W, I did NOT engage in conversations that did not have to do with the kids or the separation agreement...


i've basically done that for months now - maybe slipped a couple of times in the r talk - for a couple of sentences, but h immediately says let's not go there.

the weird thing is he's not doing the lashing out and railing thing at me anymore.

Yes, exactly the same for me.


on the other hand after many months of staying pretty dim, only when i went less dark did h start showing that he wanted to be more around - maybe just mirroring? i don't know. or was he just respecting my boundaries and then when i loosened them he could stride right in where he left off

Yes, again, it's so confusing knowing what to do.


Hugs to you; keep strong,
NLW

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Whoops, messed up the quoting in the last post - I put some of my own comments in the quote box, sorry!

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no problem - i keep doing the same

thanks for your support NLW - and for reaching out to me and giving me a chance to realize that other people are in the same mess i am. i know it sounds weird, but knowing that somehow helps.

i will go and read your thread later - right now, just can't -

but it means more than i can say that you wrote what you did.

maybe we can figure it out together. how are you doing on GAL? as bad as me? i am doing pretty well in the social area - really connecting with my friends again, but in terms of structure and working and getting myself earning again - i am still struggling a lot there

((())) to you and hope things start turning around for you real soon

zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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Hey Zig,

I hope we can figure this out together - I often feel so alone.

And guess what, my MIL recently told me there was no hope in my sitch: "He's not coming back, NLW."

I felt so bad to hear her say this.

But bleh, what does she know?

My GAL is pretty much to do with kids. This weekend I am driving them around to work and hair dressers (WOW, what an exciting life! - but SOMEONE"S gotta do it) and I will take them to a football game on Sunday.

Lots of dog walking and going to the park, and a bit of gym work thrown in. Movies and museums, as well, last week as they are on school holidays.

Always miss H when I do these things though, cause we always did everything as a family. Feels like there's a gaping hole - and there is: in my heart (SOB).

Phew, I do have a tendency to wallow at every possible opportunity!

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Feels like there's a gaping hole - and there is: in my heart (SOB).

big big hug to you - you and i need to fill that hole with other things, for now.

Phew, I do have a tendency to wallow at every possible opportunity!

we are the wallowing queens, aren't we -

tonight, my mom read me this quote:

'pain is inevitable in life, suffering is a choice'

talk about give it to me straight - i really need to stop being the victim here. all my db'ing efforts have been in vain, i realize now - because i allow myself to suffer - h can feel that . i need to stop suffering and get a life!! and so do you, right?

your gal stuff with the kids sounds great - i need to make more effort in that dept. once again - i gal'd like crazy the first few months, and then slacked off -

you have a dog? what kind? i have had this incredible urge to get a dog for the last few months - i've hesitated mainly because of the vet bills - can't afford anything right now. but you know, i just might be brave and get a puppy with s this spring - heck, it would be so lovely to have company when i am on my own and i know that s would get really soothed cuddling and playing with the dog.

mixed feelings though - s has asthma, and its a wild toss, whether he will or will not react to any specific dog.

you're right about mil's. what do they know...

take care
zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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journaling

the conversation tonight with h went really well, i felt.

i read LRT a couple of times before he came over so that it was really clear to me that i was not trying to manipulate anything - i really did need to air some things that happened after the accident.

i think , even though he didn't want to show it that h was deeply affected by what i told him. it gave me a real sense of peace - to have this out and to let him know.

the odd thing is that we talked for quite a while, and at some point went back to the movement disorder and i sort of hinted a bit that there was the other side of the story (meaning his role) and at first he got a bit defensive and started on his usual thing of how he did the best he could blah blah and i can't remember exactly what i said, but then it was quiet for a bit and he looked a bit agonized and turned to me and asked "what could i have done?"

i didn't jump into it but carefully confirmed that he really wanted a real honest answer and then told him gently how my asking him to go talk to someone would have saved both of us. i even got a chance to tell him what the therapist had told me last year - how it was very possible that he had some form of ptsd because of what was happening with me. he pointed out that he just felt helpless, overwhelmed and depressed, and i told him that the therapist had told me that those were the symptoms and that they were not in response to me the person in the relationship, but were in response to the symptoms that i was dealing with

i feel this huge sense of relief - i got to say and he took it really well what was so utterly painful that i went through - and he acknowledged it - without fighting or getting nutty on me.i talked about a couple of other things to do with the sexual abuse and how it affected our relationship.

i made sure to let him know, and that was my intention, that everything i talked about was only to do with my own healing and possibly his and son's

it was a moment of healing for us, there was no doubt about it,

he said odd things all through the conversation, and it gave me the strong feeling that he was trying very hard to feel out where i'm at. in that way my having been dim all these months really showed it maybe working

he brought up the house again - really trying to find out how i felt about it. i told him some pretty neutral things and then asked him why he was asking so much. after many mins of humming and hawing he finally managed to say - "i'm really glad that we are getting along so well, and i don't want to compromise that - but also added that he thought i might see that as a move further away.

so i said is it a move further away and he said yes

so mixed messages there -

i kept moving the conversation towards positive things and we actually talked about how we view life - and it's changed for both of us and become more similar. he said that he saw us as being on the path, and that we didn't really know where it was going, and that he wanted to just let things happen in their own time.

he asked me if i saw our sitch as amusing sometimes or utterly tragic - i replied that i didn't see it as either, but that we were where we were and that things just needed to unfold in their own time (tragic? of course i see it as tragic - what the hell does he know!! and amusing - he must really be mad!!!!)

then he says - so we worked through a lot of stuff, we don't have any problems now do we - i started to laugh because i thought he was joking - he was serious!! he said sometimes i am really clear about stuff and sometimes i'm oblivious - i feel right now that i'm oblivious and i simply can't think why you are laughing

i was so close to saying - of course we have a problem - a huge one - you're openly having an affair while we are still married and you're telling me we have no problems?

but i didn't say it - i couldn't tell if it was DB'ing or not to state the f'ing obvious - so when in doubt keep quiet, right?

i have no idea if i should have said that!!


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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I always like to say that my momma always tolla me... if you can't say something good, then don't say anything... but my momma never tolla me that... grin

Say what you mean and mean what you say, but if you have something that you want to say because you feel hurt and you want to hurt your H... then don't say it. It will feel good in the moment, but then you may regret it later, or at best... it really had no lasting, intrinsic benefit...

What you did say, appears like it helped... so chalk the positive and let it lie...

If we talk pure DB, and the mods and some others will point out that us board members, and even the mods, are NOT the experts... but the DB coaches and MWD herself, are...

So when we talk DB techniques, ALWAYS refer to the DB/DR bibles... and follow them...

having said that, I believe that MWD wrote in DR that each sitch is unique and one technique may work for some and not for others AND that they are also guidelines and some things, like LRT are OK to modify to suit your needs... I could be wrong, but I believe she says that...

So, LRT as described in the book may work for you, but you may get better value out of a slight modification of it...

first though, you need a basis in which to gauge results...

do, observe, adjust, do...

If you do not see any discernible results, there are a few possibilities for that... either there really were no results... or there were results that you just can't see, yet (which is why TIME is important... consistency over time...) or... it is possible that you are looking for results in the wrong gauge...

So as you mention above that you did not think LRT or dim was working for you... when you thought about it, you came to a realization that there were results... you just were looking out the wrong window at first, looking for them...

Maybe you don't know what you want in the big picture... maybe your goals have changed... just because we choose to stand NOW... does not mean we have to... or will want to... tomorrow... or six months from now... and it's OK to change our goals and our minds...

Be more precise with your goals if that might help. Rather than saying, "I want to R with my H." You might say, "I want H and I to talk about s on a regular basis and I do not want to argue with H in a way that I feel so frustrated that I yell."

Those little goals are quite measurable. As you find a way to achieve those goals and as you achieve your small goals, you will feel better about yourself and the sitch. And those little goals are likely taking you towards your big goal, even if you had not yet been able to articulate what that big goal is.

Hope that makes sense.

And again... Do what works... stop what doesn't... do something for at least two weeks before measuring results if you see positive results, keep doing it... and if you see negative results... stop doing it... anything in between? Well, you decide whether you want to keep doing those things that may be having no effect towards your goals.

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