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Hey Z, glad some "ah h" moments are happening for you. And if your son wants a challenge with the dandelions, he would LOVE my yard!

Not sure if you have read it but my new IC suggested I read "Hold Me Tight". It really gets into the emotional connection of relationships and talks about triggers that get us into negative cycles and how to get out of them.

Take care


Me:45, W:45
S:16 D:13
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
Putting finances in order for "D"
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
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he gets to do my yard first!!!

isn't it funny how kids will do all kinds of stuff elsewhere, but at home you can't get them to do one little thing!!

thanks for the the encouragement and tips - you doing better now? hope so

zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,676
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Quote:
techie problem - when i click on someones name, i only get to the list of posts they've made to others - how do i find their thread?

When you have located a thread with a response from the person, then click on their name and view posts.

Hope that makes sense.

Originally Posted By: zig
h answered the phone when i called to say goodnight to s. s was still in the shower. he asked how i was and i said i was fine - and then he said, we need to continue this conversation one of these days

i asked - when would you like to do that - and found out right away that that was too aggressive - he's like a shy nervous horse right now - he immediately got a bit anxious and replied that he didn't know. so i just said gently that anytime was fine.
Or a squirrel you're trying to feed by hand.

Quote:
so i shall try to be kind as he goes through what must be a terribly painful and scary time. and his casually asking me tonight if we should continue that conversation, one could almost see as him asking for help

how could i help him find his way in this, so that i am not doing the work but just supporting him? he told me a few weeks ago that he was terribly afraid of coming back that he felt terribly vulnerable - i thought he meant because he had an A and was scared i couldn't forgive him

but no, now i see that he feels terribly vulnerable because for the first 2 months after the separation, he cried and poured his heart out and bared his soul - and he's petrified i won't take care of it if he comes back


I know this is journalling and exploring but watch out for trying to fix him. That's his job, work on you and if he wants to work on him he will and things may fit nicely.

Most people experience fixing as control.

I think this was authored by TrueGritter:


The more you use pressure, the less they see your inner beauty and your charm.

Everybody thinks, professionals and non-professionals alike, they say to have a happy marriage or a happy relationship, you have to work at it.

But I say that it's the working that makes it not work.

When you criticize, you're working at improving your mate.

When you complain to your lover, you're working at improving them.

When you argue, you're working at improving them.

When you try to reason with them.

When you tell them how much you love them.

Both when you're reasoning and when you're telling them how much you love them, you are trying to change them. You are working at changing them. And it's that working at changing them, that is the only problem.


Stop all of that working. Allow and accept, one hundred percent, whatever your spouse thinks, feels, or does is perfectly okay.

It's perfectly okay.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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just reread and the light bulb came on
Quote:
when i click on someones name, i only get to the list of posts they've made to others


About the 2 posters I mentioned, I don;t think they have their own threads. I've learned the most by reading their responses to others. That's why it takes a while to find them.

It reminds me of hunting diamonds in Arkansas. My parent took us there as kids. It's a big open field and people are out there sifting through dirt in search of a little glistening rock.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
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I know this is journalling and exploring but watch out for trying to fix him.

i was very conscious of that while i was writing - but i guess i still gave that impression - i DON'T want to fix him or help him fix these things - i just want to support him in it

i have more than enough to fix within myself - and i am going to focus on that only.

no suggestions if he talks about it about what he could do etc., i am only going to point to what i am experiencing as i learn about myself, if it comes up

during the appointment, i did tell the therapist how only when i saw myself in my son, and how he used anger, did i start to see how he had learned it from me and that's when i started working on myself - over 2 years ago - it took a long time for me to change my angry responses - that were almost automatic (habit) and replace them with calm, constructive responses - and it took even longer for my son to recognize that i had changed - he was so used to me responding impatiently that even when i didn't he assumed i was.

i know h was listening intently.

more and more i am realizing how this really works - placing the positive changes in myself so that they are real, is the only thing i need to focus on - the rest will follow - but it takes a lot of time

today i am focusing on "reach for the better feeling thought"

thanks labug for the tips and what truegritter wrote - that really helps


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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i could use some advice on the following:

i don't want to argue, i don't want to "reason" but how does one deal with the conversation when one just wants to say what they think, not expecting the other one to even agree, but the other one keeps arguing about it. this scenario is coming up constantly now, and after months of not arguing, i find myself getting pulled into it.

h is insisting over-loudly and repeatedly that s is not affected and i am making too much of it. when he tries to draw me in, should i just stay quiet? it's not that i want to "win" this argument - i just want to able to help s work his way through this so he is in as a good a place as he can be emotionally

one of the patterns that h has always had is that he will admit and agree with me (which he has done on this issue, weeks ago) but then he goes on to sort of play devil's advocate and takes the opposite stand in this really stubborn way.

in the past it would drive me up the wall and i would always lose it - now i've 180ed that and am calm, but still finding it difficult to figure out how to respond in a healthy constructive manner

during our talks after the separation, he said that he did that because he didn't know how he really felt about whatever the issue was.( what's the real message i'm getting here???)

what was frustrating for me was that it was mostly unimportant stuff, but he would drive it into the ground and make the situation really unpleasant until i really and truly was upset. upset because he would choose to go on about something the exact opposite of what i knew he really felt about it

thanks for any help on this
zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,676
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Has he been able to change your mind to see the issue as he sees it?

You know his thoughts on it. Why do you keep discussing it with him?

Accept what is, he doesn't agree with your assessment, you don't agree with his and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Work on what you can work on...you.

You don't need his help to help your son. Yes, it might be better but you have no control of that.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
Joined: Feb 2012
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Originally Posted By: zig

techie problem - when i click on someones name, i only get to the list of posts they've made to others - how do i find their thread?

Zig,

Click their name, select view posts. Then at the top right of the list, click the link that says "Topics Created" to see their threads.

Sadly this is the only advice I can offer you right now. Been following your story for a while now, and I'm really hoping for the best for you. Good luck.


M:28 | W:28 | T:4.5 | M:2.5 | No Children
EA1 Uncovered: Jun 2011
EA2 Uncovered: 2011-09-29
S: 2011-09-29
I'm moving on: 2012-05-08
My story: http://bit.ly/K3ttPM
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thanks labug

soon after i posted he called and asked if he could come over to talk - i asked him to come after half and hour so that i could have time to center myself - i know there was something coming and there was

his parents have agreed to buy a house for him and he came over to tell me that. the financial strain on us has been terrible with the rent he has been paying. i kept telling myself that it's not the end of the world - that he still needs the time and space - and this way the financial strain will be off quite a bit

the very difficult thing i'm struggling with is his parent's decision - i know , out of my control - but i see it as them enabling him on this path IN SPITE OF them disapproving so much of what he is doing.

his father told him that his mom was scared that i would be upset. what she's really scared of is that she is helping me to set up my little business and knows me well enough to know, that now, i'm not going to want her help. and the stupid thing is that this comes 3 hrs before i'm going to her office where her photographer is going to take pics of my stuff and she's printing a post card for me.

and i am really struggling with this right now - i want to call her right away and say sorry, mil, i just can't take your help right now not with what you just agreed to do - knowing at the same time that i would be sabotaging my own efforts towards starting my business, and moving towards earning some money

so it's pride here and i am really struggling with that.

i need to see this as them not taking sides, but it is really hard for me to do that right now. i have listened to mil agonize and complain vociferously for 2 years about her kids, but i continuously see her enabling them

i have to go there at 3 ., and right now i don't think i can even look at her.

wow this is a real test for me - to put my emotions aside and still be okay with what there is - i can't even postpone this - because the pics have to go to the printer tomorrow

my trigger here - one of h's big grievances was that i allowed his and my parents to give us money to help us out and how it undermined his self-esteem - he made it sound like i forced him to do it.

on the other hand =maybe this will propel me to go take my own pics and get my own post card made and do this completely on my own

help!! i need a calm perspective here

there was tons more conversation - and i handled it all really well and then said i needed to get back to work. will journal about that later

labug - he brought up the name stuff and it was a calm conversation - no argument - thanks for the advice - it helped a lot


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
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zig Offline OP
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warning - this is probably a long post - and since its me that means really long - can never condense a thing, can i


oh god, what a day - i swear i would have slept through it if i had known what was going to happen. where are the f'ing dandelions to dig up when i need them

was trying to sort through my feelings first talking to my sweet friend who is SOOOO sensible, and then with my mom, and we decided that since the situation was so time sensitive, the best thing to do was to postpone the photography until i had time to sort out what i wanted to do and to calm down from my feelings.

i was in the process of calling mil, to tell her that i needed time, when my cell rang and it was s's school - he'd been injured and i thought - wow, another serendipitous moment - all i have to do is leave a message for mil that i have to go to s and i don't have to deal with explanations etc. until the height of my emotions have passed

couldn't reach h - but got to school and brought s home - talking to h on the way back. it was almost pick up time anyway and he asked if he should come get s or did i prefer to keep him. i was dying to say yes yes i want to keep him but instead said it was fine if he took s and why didn't he come straight to my place.


s started crying ( first time?) when i told him that h was coming to get him and said he just couldn't drive any further and needed to go to my place. so i said that was fine and i'd call h back. he was ok with it, but surprisingly showed up at the house about 2 mins after we got there - i had s laying on the couch checking out the injury, when h walked in

s immediately curled up and sat up and pretended that he was ok - and was looking very uneasy and i just said very gently that he didn't need to worry, dad wasn't here to whisk you off, he'd just come over to make sure you're ok and h reassured him too. he didn't want anything to do with h - and i think h could sense that really strongly and left really soon after that

then it was time to call mil back - 5 missed calls on my cell.

i started by telling her that i was just leaving a message for her that i needed time to process what happened and that then this incident with s came up exactly then.

that i was struggling with how to go forward and i needed some more time. that i wasn't judging their decision but just needed time to find out what was the best thing for me to do.

she fell apart - she was crying so hard she couldn't speak - and then eventually it came out - she didn't want to say yes - but she didn't say no and let them think she'd said yes.

sorry i'm going to all out curse right now - F'ING EXACTLY WHAT H DID FOR 10 YRS

she's been in agony for a week over this - that's what the helpless crying was last saturday she said

so for the next 40 minutes i comforted her , and helped her to see that if she kept doing what wasn't working and then being agonized in her soul, then she needed to change what she was doing. in order to be able to be true to herself (in this case she doesn't want to enable h to continue down his path - but to let him struggle on his own) she needed to get over whatever fear she had about voicing what she felt.

she just cried and cried. i asked her if she could leave the office and offered that she could come here - and just curl up in the bed next to son and giggle with him and watch cartoons.

i told her she was strong enough to get through this and she could just come and be soothed in the presence of the only person in her life who loves her unconditionally. she said she didn't think she could not cry in front of him, and i said yes she could. if i could, she could, because she was way better at it that i was and i had been learning by watching her

she said she'd call me back - but she hasn't yet.

coming up - if s says he wants to stay here, will have to deal with that with h

what a day - i'm so proud of myself - i've stayed calm - i cried a lot talking to my friend and my mom, but it was calm, just emotions releasing

thoughts on the house - it''s a very good thing for s - a home - if w are going to be split-up, then i want home for him with h, not a one-step up from camping situation like it has been.

also, a financial break for h which takes some of the stress off

as for the rest of the conversations from this morning - i hope i just forget it and move forward


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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