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labug #2240032 04/23/12 02:13 PM
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screwed up the html-hope you can make sense of it.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
labug #2240064 04/23/12 03:56 PM
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ces67 Offline OP
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I think I got your message! : )

I did tell her these things when I spoke to her a week ago. Told her I wished she wasn't going on another trip. Explained 2 reasons. First, the job seemed to be costing us more money and it wasn't helping our family any. Also explained the feelings of being discarded each time she leaves.

She responded that she & friend are still working out the details of how my W can help remotely (its been 4 months). She also explained she had committed to helping and they needed her there (and I didn't even say anything about our marriage commitment or the families needs as a response....)

So at this point, she knows where I stand and she has reached out to me in her own way in what appears to be an effort to move forward. She is contacting me a lot during this trip which is very different from her past trips. She even called me this morning and left a vm about her morning.

I'm not going to harp on my issues but instead, acknowledge and respond positively to the behaviors she is showing to connect. I know my resentment is there. I'll express it here on the boards. I also feel that I need to even temper it here on the boards because there is a balance of letting it out to deal with these feelings vs. letting them spew out in a way that fuels the fire.

Such an emotional juggling act....


Me:45, W:45
S:16 D:13
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
Putting finances in order for "D"
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
ces67 #2240088 04/23/12 04:50 PM
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Work through your resentment until it's gone, not buried. What are the positives to W's new job? Not saying these apply but here are a few to think about besides money: confidence, fulfillment of doing something you love, potential for future higher earning, flexible hours or other advantages, opportunity to work with a friend, ability to travel, a reason to look polished and professional and the self esteem that comes with it. I could go on but I don't really know the details.

Why not figure out or ask her what things this job provides that she loves and finds fulfilling. What does your family need from her and how long can you wait for the payoff if she expects that her earnings will exceed output soon? Are you ok with that wait?

Some of this you don't have a choice but be ok with because you don't have a lot of leverage right now to make demands,

but for your sanity and to ease your resentment find the nonmonetary positives and see if you can support them. See if you can get her agreement on your concerns monetarily and set a timeframe where you revisit whether she needs to contribute more toward the debt.

Does reframing it like this help any?


Adinva 51, S20, S18
M24 total
6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out
9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50
5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend
__
Happiness is a warm puppy.
adinva #2240107 04/23/12 05:50 PM
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ces67 Offline OP
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Thanks Advina, the big positive for W on this job that she has said to me are the following:

1) the hours are flexible so she can still be with the kids (this is one of the reasons I supported her taking the job and said so in the beginning even thought its working for the former OM).
2) It provides her money
3) She stated recently it gives her a chance to go back to former home to see her friends on a regular basis

One of the reasons she is in contact so much this trip is because the kids are not with her. She's not use to being without them and D10 is not use to her mom not being around. W even said this to me last night. Another difference though is that she is contacting the kids through me more than contacting them directly as she has done in the past.

I will look for positives in this job as you suggested to help me keep a better frame of mind. I've stated to my W my concerns about this job and to continue to do so would be nagging. So I've dropped it.

Now to get working on that "letter" she asked for....


Me:45, W:45
S:16 D:13
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
Putting finances in order for "D"
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
ces67 #2240122 04/23/12 06:31 PM
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The flexible hours, do they replace the need for afterschool care? That's worth money. Seeing friends regularly can have mental health and general happiness benefits. If your concern is that you need her to help pay down the debt, it would be reasonable to wait a little while if there's a timeframe before her earnings will kick in. It would be reasonable to voice that as a question that she could help provide her input on so she buys into the solution rather than you nagging her with your viewpoint.

In my m, I thought I was doing great by contributing toward our household and handling all afterschool care, sick days, doctor appointments, and camp/sport scheduling. This is a job in itself. But my H saw things in dollar terms and felt that because I was earning 60% of a comparable fulltime salary, he was subsidizing me and thought negative thoughts every time I spent time on something he didn't think was worthwhile (because he was subsidizing it if it was time I was potentially earning more money). A lot of this could have been avoided if we had talked so that I could understand his viewpoint that total dollars into the household was his main measuring stick and he could understand mine, that there was nonmonetary value that was important too. We still don't see eye to eye on this but I don't think he's as unreasonable as I did before. Talking with an aim to understand is so important, versus nagging.


Adinva 51, S20, S18
M24 total
6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out
9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50
5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend
__
Happiness is a warm puppy.
adinva #2240162 04/23/12 08:03 PM
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ces67 Offline OP
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My W has always been a stay home mom (aside from small part-time interests of hers on occassion) and has always handled the "at home" kid stuff. We've never had to use any sort of childcare which has been great. It was a huge help in allowing me to do well in my career. I've shared this with my W and thanked her for it over the years.

W has never really wanted to work outside the home. She wants to be home with the kids. The issues are more rcent and are buried back in my previous threads but here's the short of it:

--I was out of work 15 months which lead to more cc debt than I prefer.
--Since bomb, W has spent LOTS of money on cc to travel, shop and do genernal entertainment for herself with her friends. She knew our situation but spent anyway.
--attempted to talk to her about this multiple times but she refused to talk and continued to spend on cc.
--I had to cancel her cards due to nearly maxing out 3 of them.
--W then wanted to take this job and presented it as a way to help but no funds have been used to help the family. Instead she has continued to expand her wardrobe, travel to see her friends and also has maxed out a 4th cc that is in her name.
--W has a degree to teach and even completed the paperwork to teach in our new state. But instead of looking for a job, she spent the entire summer last year out of state with the kids and made no effort to find a job(10 weeks away during the summer funded by the cc's that had to be closed)

I have asked for her assistance about 2 months after she started the job and she got upset saying she didn't really make that much. So no assistance from her was given but her wardrobe continued to grow (White House/Black Market appears to be her favorite shop)

I've supported various jobs that she has tried over the years and also her staying home with the kids, which is awesome for her, the kids and me. The issue here is that since the bomb, she has spent thousands of dollars that our family cannot afford, she has acknoweldged this, yet continues to show no accountability for helping deal with the debt she has created.

I don't see this an a measurement issue and the spending is a symptom of a deeper problem. I see this as an example of my W separating herself to live outside of our M at the expense of our family.

Oh, and did I mention when she travels for this job, she stays at her friend's house who is married to the (former) OM?

In the 4 months that she has done this job I have only talked to her about it 3times.

1) When she told me about it, I shared that I understood the benefit of flexible hours and working from home but was concerned that she would be working for OM.
2) 2 months into job I asked if she could assist with any family expenses since we were still having to use a cc for general stuff like groceries & gas between paychecks
3) Before she left last Sunday I explained my assumptions of how this job was to help our family but it was not and my feelings around her leaving so often. (this conversation has led to the recent increase in communication and her request for "good stuff".


Me:45, W:45
S:16 D:13
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
Putting finances in order for "D"
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
ces67 #2240163 04/23/12 08:04 PM
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ces67 Offline OP
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^^^wow, that ended up longer than I expected. Sorry.


Me:45, W:45
S:16 D:13
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
Putting finances in order for "D"
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
ces67 #2240166 04/23/12 08:10 PM
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Ces, have you read the book Boundaries by Cloud & Townsend?

It might be helpful because I see your struggle with this issue.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
labug #2240170 04/23/12 08:19 PM
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ces67 Offline OP
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I have read that. That's what prompted me to cancel the credit cards to protect the families finances. Its also why I have not said anything about her own cc and how she maxed it out. Our MC that we went to last year recommended we both read it.

It seems up to this point, W has decided to live her life in a way that excludes me (her right to do so if she wants). The challenge is that she has used family funds to support her individual life, thus creating financial difficulties for the family.


Me:45, W:45
S:16 D:13
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
Putting finances in order for "D"
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
ces67 #2240174 04/23/12 08:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,676
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Quote:
The challenge is that she has used family funds to support her individual life, thus creating financial difficulties for the family.


So, how can this be fixed?

How can you stop resenting her for this?

How can your marriage be restored if this continues?


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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