The Space Between...

[25yearsmlc]

Purg, So sorry that you had to go through this.

He is obviously fantasising and experimenting - he's not sure what he's doing.



this^^ is important to remember. You two didn't fall in love THIS FAST those years ago and then make rings to show the world your committment did you?

So he's in a hurry to "feel in love" again, and she's his target b/c let's face it

YOU require him undoing his negative imaging of you and the marriage
(and in fairness to him, being back w/you requires forgiveness he doesn't feel like giving) AND besides, he also has to justify to the world, what he's doing so far...so that takes outward "Signs of REAL love"

like making them matching rings so he can show the world, "yes it's ALL worth it" and so he won't feel so lonely while deployed.

Is she beautiful smart and kind and funny and always in the mood for great sex? Honestly? Does she work hard and contribute income and keep a decent house and cook well and is she strong and interesting??

Worst case scenario, life situations, deploying, and career pressures give them an artificial sense of bonding, b/c it's "them against the world" while the evil forces keep them apart.


All you can do is not be part of THAT. And show who you have become.

There WILL be a crack in their veneers as time passes and they spend some time together. All will NOT be perfect. She'll see that OMG "HE has flaws too... & I thought I'd fixed all my problems by ending my first m...oops"

and you are the mother of his children. When he sees you raising YOUR/HIS children and working and yet being Mother Frickin' Teresa Purg and

a woman only a fool would leave...who is moving forward in her life...


LET him get to deal with the mess of his potential step children looking at him, and knowing...and looking at their mother...and knowing...and being teenagers AND him missing his kids as they get older, oh yes -there WILL be cracks/crevasses.

If you can, try to think about the need to give him time to work through his mess.
It is 5 months - but that's not long in the scheme of things.


5 months is NOT long but sure, I wish there was a faster way, or that you could push "fast forward"...

even though you assume he'll fantasize about OW while gone, he will, at a minimum, also ache for the arms of his own children. She cannot provide that.

And some say that "absence makes the heart grow fonder" and IT CAN...

but there's also "absence makes the heart go wander..." and he may even feel attracted to someone there and that will make him wonder if MAYBE this is about HIM and not being happy in his marriage

and thinking that a divorce will fix all his problems. But erasing you from the family photo does not work, and it does not fix the problems. OMG if he could only see the pain he's creating for others AND himself...

EX---SIDENOTE--a decade after my uncle left my aunt for his OW, he told his mother that if he'd "Known how much pain this would cause" he'd have stayed w/aunt. But the truth is, he cheated on OW too...

So my aunt was truly better off without him, and she fully realized it one day when OW (the "new wife" of 8 years) called my aunt to see if my uncle was there, at aunt's house!!...Aunt said "God, NO..."

and then it hit her that he was always going to cheat and make his partner feel that sick in the stomach feeling...so, he'd done her a favor.

She had remarried, was happy, but became a widow suddenly after 25 years. After about 2 years of being alone (but w/tons of friends), she picked herself up, again, and dusted herself off and re-joined the world (she GAL!!!)

and men always seemed to seek her out. (She's attractive & in shape but also she is inwardly content and at peace, AND that radiates & it's just attractive)

So now she's 72, she looks 50, and has been dating a younger man she met @ a "current events club" & they've been together for a few years now b/c, I kid you not, she says "He's so active, and the sex is really good."...


My uncle still lives with the fact that another man raised his kids, and that his grandchildren barely know him whereas my aunt is involved in their lives on nearly a daily basis... My aunt is happy. I don't know what my uncle is but if he'd found his "true love" with OW, he would not have continued to stray forever...something in him was not alright and he never looked inward to repair it.

WE, otoh, do look inward to repair what's not working in our lives. That is why the LBSer who does the inner work and practices DBing, is universally better off after a few years, then the WAS who does not look inward or do the work.




I'm desperate for some movement in a positive direction from my H at the moment, just like you.

And when I don't see any, I decide I will have to settle for closure - i.e. being done with what I should recognise as a hopeless situation.

BUT... then I remember that DB says don't lose hope.

Be more patient than you thought you could ever be.

Give your S TIME to work through his turmoil.

And understand that what they say and do today may not be what they say and do tomorrow.

And while you are still working on your self and with him, you still have the opportunity, at every interaction, to change the dynamic between you.

It may take a year, not 5 months; it may take 2 years.

Keep this sort of time frame in mind and then think about how you want to proceed. Would it be worth it if you had to wait longer for things to get better?

We're here to help you endure the sad times and to share the suffering. We know how hard it is.

Big hugs to you,
NLW

good stuff from NLW.


If Purg, the time comes when they marry and go off into the sunset -we'll be here for you.

OR if you, Purg, decide that moving forward has brought you to a place where you can no longer look over your shoulder with hope that he's awakened...b/c you want real freedom all the way

or b/c you feel you are still in limbo (purgatory) and want out for real,

then we'll support you letting go and shutting the door AND locking it

as you find your way in the world or in a new R...

but that day isn't today...

(((( ))))

[hopingandpraying]

Purg,

I am thinking about you and wishing you the very best in your situation. You are stronger than you know.

25, your advice is wonderful....and NLW...GREAT!!

[purgatory]

I've been letting all of this float around in my head for the last few days... I really appreciate the time you all take to give such detailed advice and insights.

My thoughts are in blue:

Purg, So sorry that you had to go through this.

He is obviously fantasising and experimenting - he's not sure what he's doing.



this^^ is important to remember. You two didn't fall in love THIS FAST those years ago and then make rings to show the world your committment did you?

So he's in a hurry to "feel in love" again, and she's his target b/c let's face it

YOU require him undoing his negative imaging of you and the marriage
(and in fairness to him, being back w/you requires forgiveness he doesn't feel like giving) [color:#3333FF]*He actually said that he feel I don't "deserve" his love... it hurt to hear that, but I'm grateful to have a few more details to understand his perspective.* AND besides, he also has to justify to the world, what he's doing so far...so that takes outward "Signs of REAL love"

like making them matching rings so he can show the world, "yes it's ALL worth it" and so he won't feel so lonely while deployed. *This thought makes me sick to my stomach. It also makes me so angry to know that he's presenting this image to the rest of the world, and at the same time telling everyone how awful I was and how wonderful OW is (that is if he even mentions me at all.) I can't imagine what our mutual friends think about all this (they don't talk to me anymore.)*

Is she beautiful smart and kind and funny and always in the mood for great sex? Honestly? Does she work hard and contribute income and keep a decent house and cook well and is she strong and interesting??
*She was raised to be "ready and available" whenever her H wants sex- she confessed this to me a while ago- and seems content to do it. As with many things in her life, she lets others make the decisions and she doesn't know how to say no. She never went to college and she's never had a job outside of being a wife and mom for the last 16 years. I am shocked that my H would be attracted to someone who is the opposite of everything he's ever told me that he finds attractive in a woman: a focus/motivation, independence, career goals, a mind of their own. Anyone who has seen OW in person or in a photo, says that they can't see what the attraction is in her.*
Worst case scenario, life situations, deploying, and career pressures give them an artificial sense of bonding, b/c it's "them against the world" while the evil forces keep them apart. *this makes sense... but I don't like it.*
All you can do is not be part of THAT. And show who you have become.
*I believe that I continue to do this, yet he has become more irritable and annoyed with me lately (the last few weeks). He seems to find something to criticize everyday, some that are really silly! I would have hoped that it would have caused a softening in him instead.*

There WILL be a crack in their veneers as time passes and they spend some time together. *They can't have an attempt at a 'real' R until he comes back, so until then, I'm afraid that they will be living the "us against the world" perspective until he returns... that can only serve to make them more determined to stay together, GRRRRR!*
All will NOT be perfect.She'll see that OMG "HE has flaws too... & I thought I'd fixed all my problems by ending my first m...oops"
and you are the mother of his children. When he sees you raising YOUR/HIS children and working and yet being Mother Frickin' Teresa Purg and
a woman only a fool would leave...who is moving forward in her life...
*this is my goal while he's deployed... I'm not quite sure how to *do* this*
LET him get to deal with the mess of his potential step children looking at him, and knowing...and looking at their mother...and knowing...and being teenagers AND him missing his kids as they get older, oh yes -there WILL be cracks/crevasses.[/color] *I have no clue how her kids will react to this, or what they are currently thinking. I mean, my H has always been a person in their lives, so in that sense, nothing has changed. But I have no idea what they will think when they see them hold hands or kiss... will they even notice?? Will they be happy for their mom? And at the same time, how can a mom want to set that example for 3 daughters?! "See girls, it's ok that [purg] isn't in your life anymore b/c uncle[C] is still here and guess what?! He gets to be your new daddy!" Will they be confused??*
If you can, try to think about the need to give him time to work through his mess. It is 5 months - but that's not long in the scheme of things.
*You're right. In the almost 10 years that we've been together, 5 months in a drop in the bucket. He's admitted that he's proud of the changes that he's seen, "but its not enough". I've also seen him almost cry when we're talking and then he forces himself to get angry and turn something around on me. We've almost switched sides in our communication style- I have a greater appreciation for what he felt like during our talks.*

5 months is NOT long but sure, I wish there was a faster way, or that you could push "fast forward"...

even though you assume he'll fantasize about OW while gone, he will, at a minimum, also ache for the arms of his own children. She cannot provide that.
[color:#3333FF]*He will ache for his kids, but how can *I* provide that either? I'm not sure that the even associates me with the kids.... they are his kids and I just happen to be the woman who takes care of them*

And some say that "absence makes the heart grow fonder" and IT CAN...
but there's also "absence makes the heart go wander..." and he may even feel attracted to someone there and that will make him wonder if MAYBE this is about HIM and not being happy in his marriage *I almost hope that he becomes interested in someone over there... OW will learn what this feels like. I've told H that I could handle all of this better with a stranger OW; there's too much history with my exBFF and the betrayal I feel is an added level of pain that I have to deal with on top of knowing that my H doesn't want me*

and thinking that a divorce will fix all his problems. But erasing you from the family photo does not work, and it does not fix the problems. OMG if he could only see the pain he's creating for others AND himself...


I'm desperate for some movement in a positive direction from my H at the moment, just like you.

And when I don't see any, I decide I will have to settle for closure - i.e. being done with what I should recognise as a hopeless situation.

BUT... then I remember that DB says don't lose hope.

Be more patient than you thought you could ever be.

Give your S TIME to work through his turmoil.

And understand that what they say and do today may not be what they say and do tomorrow.

And while you are still working on your self and with him, you still have the opportunity, at every interaction, to change the dynamic between you.

It may take a year, not 5 months; it may take 2 years.

Keep this sort of time frame in mind and then think about how you want to proceed. Would it be worth it if you had to wait longer for things to get better?

We're here to help you endure the sad times and to share the suffering. We know how hard it is.
*It's sad and comforting to know that other people out there can relate to this strange dynamic of moving on with your life yet at the same time keeping the door open for the WAS*
Big hugs to you,
NLW

good stuff from NLW.


If Purg, the time comes when they marry and go off into the sunset -we'll be here for you. [color:#3333FF]*I think I might need to be committed if this ever happens!*

OR if you, Purg, decide that moving forward has brought you to a place where you can no longer look over your shoulder with hope that he's awakened...b/c you want real freedom all the way
or b/c you feel you are still in limbo (purgatory) and want out for real,
then we'll support you letting go and shutting the door AND locking it
as you find your way in the world or in a new R...
*Lately I feel that I'm at this exact crossroads: Move on or continue to stand. My H has become a real jerk lately with his actions (making the rings). Part of me can't believe that I would ever want to be with a guy who acts like that... but then I remember that this isn't *him*- this is him in crisis. The things I've heard him say sound like they are coming out of a teenager's mouth*

but that day isn't today...
*still not today.... probably not tomorrow*

(((( ))))[/color]

[purgatory]

I've been letting all of this float around in my head for the last few days... I really appreciate the time you all take to give such detailed advice and insights.

My thoughts are in blue:

Purg, So sorry that you had to go through this.

He is obviously fantasising and experimenting - he's not sure what he's doing.



this^^ is important to remember. You two didn't fall in love THIS FAST those years ago and then make rings to show the world your committment did you?

So he's in a hurry to "feel in love" again, and she's his target b/c let's face it

YOU require him undoing his negative imaging of you and the marriage
(and in fairness to him, being back w/you requires forgiveness he doesn't feel like giving) [color:#3333FF]*He actually said that he feel I don't "deserve" his love... it hurt to hear that, but I'm grateful to have a few more details to understand his perspective.* AND besides, he also has to justify to the world, what he's doing so far...so that takes outward "Signs of REAL love"

like making them matching rings so he can show the world, "yes it's ALL worth it" and so he won't feel so lonely while deployed. *This thought makes me sick to my stomach. It also makes me so angry to know that he's presenting this image to the rest of the world, and at the same time telling everyone how awful I was and how wonderful OW is (that is if he even mentions me at all.) I can't imagine what our mutual friends think about all this (they don't talk to me anymore.)*

Is she beautiful smart and kind and funny and always in the mood for great sex? Honestly? Does she work hard and contribute income and keep a decent house and cook well and is she strong and interesting??
*She was raised to be "ready and available" whenever her H wants sex- she confessed this to me a while ago- and seems content to do it. As with many things in her life, she lets others make the decisions and she doesn't know how to say no. She never went to college and she's never had a job outside of being a wife and mom for the last 16 years. I am shocked that my H would be attracted to someone who is the opposite of everything he's ever told me that he finds attractive in a woman: a focus/motivation, independence, career goals, a mind of their own. Anyone who has seen OW in person or in a photo, says that they can't see what the attraction is in her.*
Worst case scenario, life situations, deploying, and career pressures give them an artificial sense of bonding, b/c it's "them against the world" while the evil forces keep them apart. *this makes sense... but I don't like it.*
All you can do is not be part of THAT. And show who you have become.
*I believe that I continue to do this, yet he has become more irritable and annoyed with me lately (the last few weeks). He seems to find something to criticize everyday, some that are really silly! I would have hoped that it would have caused a softening in him instead.*

There WILL be a crack in their veneers as time passes and they spend some time together. *They can't have an attempt at a 'real' R until he comes back, so until then, I'm afraid that they will be living the "us against the world" perspective until he returns... that can only serve to make them more determined to stay together, GRRRRR!*
All will NOT be perfect.She'll see that OMG "HE has flaws too... & I thought I'd fixed all my problems by ending my first m...oops"
and you are the mother of his children. When he sees you raising YOUR/HIS children and working and yet being Mother Frickin' Teresa Purg and
a woman only a fool would leave...who is moving forward in her life...
*this is my goal while he's deployed... I'm not quite sure how to *do* this*
LET him get to deal with the mess of his potential step children looking at him, and knowing...and looking at their mother...and knowing...and being teenagers AND him missing his kids as they get older, oh yes -there WILL be cracks/crevasses.[/color] *I have no clue how her kids will react to this, or what they are currently thinking. I mean, my H has always been a person in their lives, so in that sense, nothing has changed. But I have no idea what they will think when they see them hold hands or kiss... will they even notice?? Will they be happy for their mom? And at the same time, how can a mom want to set that example for 3 daughters?! "See girls, it's ok that [purg] isn't in your life anymore b/c uncle[C] is still here and guess what?! He gets to be your new daddy!" Will they be confused??*
If you can, try to think about the need to give him time to work through his mess. It is 5 months - but that's not long in the scheme of things.
*You're right. In the almost 10 years that we've been together, 5 months in a drop in the bucket. He's admitted that he's proud of the changes that he's seen, "but its not enough". I've also seen him almost cry when we're talking and then he forces himself to get angry and turn something around on me. We've almost switched sides in our communication style- I have a greater appreciation for what he felt like during our talks.*

5 months is NOT long but sure, I wish there was a faster way, or that you could push "fast forward"...

even though you assume he'll fantasize about OW while gone, he will, at a minimum, also ache for the arms of his own children. She cannot provide that.
[color:#3333FF]*He will ache for his kids, but how can *I* provide that either? I'm not sure that the even associates me with the kids.... they are his kids and I just happen to be the woman who takes care of them*

And some say that "absence makes the heart grow fonder" and IT CAN...
but there's also "absence makes the heart go wander..." and he may even feel attracted to someone there and that will make him wonder if MAYBE this is about HIM and not being happy in his marriage *I almost hope that he becomes interested in someone over there... OW will learn what this feels like. I've told H that I could handle all of this better with a stranger OW; there's too much history with my exBFF and the betrayal I feel is an added level of pain that I have to deal with on top of knowing that my H doesn't want me*

and thinking that a divorce will fix all his problems. But erasing you from the family photo does not work, and it does not fix the problems. OMG if he could only see the pain he's creating for others AND himself...


I'm desperate for some movement in a positive direction from my H at the moment, just like you.

And when I don't see any, I decide I will have to settle for closure - i.e. being done with what I should recognise as a hopeless situation.

BUT... then I remember that DB says don't lose hope.

Be more patient than you thought you could ever be.

Give your S TIME to work through his turmoil.

And understand that what they say and do today may not be what they say and do tomorrow.

And while you are still working on your self and with him, you still have the opportunity, at every interaction, to change the dynamic between you.

It may take a year, not 5 months; it may take 2 years.

Keep this sort of time frame in mind and then think about how you want to proceed. Would it be worth it if you had to wait longer for things to get better?

We're here to help you endure the sad times and to share the suffering. We know how hard it is.
*It's sad and comforting to know that other people out there can relate to this strange dynamic of moving on with your life yet at the same time keeping the door open for the WAS*
Big hugs to you,
NLW

good stuff from NLW.


If Purg, the time comes when they marry and go off into the sunset -we'll be here for you. [color:#3333FF]*I think I might need to be committed if this ever happens!*

OR if you, Purg, decide that moving forward has brought you to a place where you can no longer look over your shoulder with hope that he's awakened...b/c you want real freedom all the way
or b/c you feel you are still in limbo (purgatory) and want out for real,
then we'll support you letting go and shutting the door AND locking it
as you find your way in the world or in a new R...
*Lately I feel that I'm at this exact crossroads: Move on or continue to stand. My H has become a real jerk lately with his actions (making the rings). Part of me can't believe that I would ever want to be with a guy who acts like that... but then I remember that this isn't *him*- this is him in crisis. The things I've heard him say sound like they are coming out of a teenager's mouth*

but that day isn't today...
*still not today.... probably not tomorrow*

(((( ))))[/color]

[BklynMom]

One thing you mentioned which really struck me is that you are no longer friends with mutual friends. Were those friends initially his friends?

Back to your post.

Look you are a beautiful woman and a great mother. Dont wallow in feeling sorry for yourself, "why is H going for her and not for me?" Its not about other womans looks or personality. I believe WA husbands in particular want to WANTED in a sexual way.

Your H is attracted to being WANTED. My H POW worships my H, even before anything was going on, she treated him like he was Gods gift. That is what he wants. That is what you didnt give him.

Your exbff seems to be so stereotypically an other woman type. I HATE HER. I HATE what she does to woman. She makes me very angry.

But you are not like you. You have values and you love and respect yourself. You need to emphasize that you are an independent woman. Take a class, get really into fitness, learn guitar, do things that you exBFF would never ever do because she is too busy being a man-pleaser.

if your H was into you for being strong willed and independent he will like that again in you. But you need to be it. You need to go out there and do something cool. This will require you to pay for more babysitting and incur other costs but you need to do it.

Have you gone to Alanon yet?

No more excuses!

He needs to find fault with you all the time cause he needs to justify his horrendous actions. Its like they are yelling "You left the the cap off the toothpaste and I cant take it anymore, its over!!" Its completely ridiculous. When your H sulks at you dont react just say "la di da" to yourself, "how silly is he." Sometimes I go to the bathroom for a minute and regroup.

This is the hardest thing in the world to go through. You are amazing for not losing you cool on him everyday and telling him to go f. off. That is what a normal person would do.

What would you do if 5 months ago your H was diagnosed with cancer and after a 5 months of chemo the scan showed that the tumors had spread? Would you give up?

Enjoy everyday with your perfect children. Spend money on yourself.

Love you:)

[25yearsmlc]

love the toothpaste cap anger example Bklyn,

so Purg, can you try to have a sense of humor about it? It's obvious your h "needs" to find a problem with you Or he can't justify leaving the mother of his children. You under estimate the value of this...

Remember Keep goings' h wanted to measure crap like how much food his w ate vs how much the kids ate? I think he wanted to deduct HER costs so he didn't have to cover HER at all....so We suggested she deduct # of squares of TP she used too, and should never be able to use a wipe for HER hands, just the baby's butt...

I opened at The Laugh Factory in '06 and I dedicated my set to my "stbxh" b/c I thought for sure we were done. And I wanted to laugh about it.

(Although h won't ever see that tape and I won't post it on youtube, I can tell you that it went over well)

A sense of humor helps a lot of people channel their anger in a way that helps us get past some of the pain.

Besides, the craziness IS funny, dang it!

[purgatory]

I've been gone for a few days... Job hunting, adjusting back to being a SAHM, and generally dealing with being a single mom

I've gotten to the place where I can not be emotionally stabbed by every action or words that H does... I find myself being angry just by being around him. I'm on my way to the place where I have no reaction to him at all.

You all have read my thoughts and feelings about his upcoming deployment and how it's going to effect my kids. Well, today- H told me that he wants to tell S6 this weekend about the D. He also said that he doesn't need my permission nor need me to be present for the talk, but I was welcomed to join. REALLY?! He also had the courtesy (*sarcastic*) to say that he wasn't trying to *force* me or back me into a corner- OMG!!! Really?! As if I'm going to step aside and let him say whatever he wants to- I'm not going to let him say "We've decided to D." NOPE! *WE* didn't decide anything.

I've suggested before, and did again, that we consult our C about the best way to approach our son... his response was that a stranger wouldn't be able to tell us what's best for our son. [this guy is really starting to p!ss me off!!]

I'm sick to my stomach over this. Not about the D (in fact I'm having neutral feelings about it lately- especially the more that he's a jerk to me), I'm sick over breaking my son's heart.

This is going to be a cr@ppy week.

[labug]

So sorry, Purg. He's really on a mission.

Even if he doesn't want to consult your C, it might be a good thing for you to do that. Talk through it to get your anger out in a safe place.

zig has been writing a lot about resistance in her thread, when we resist it just gives them more to push against.

Good luck and (((P)))

[BklynMom]

I think its really important that you dont resist right now. I know that what he is doing heartbreaking. Its terrible as a mother to watch him inflict this pain on his kids but I would let him do what he wants to do. Decide if you want to be there or not but try to stop him. Your resistance will be used against you. Your resistance will be misrepresented down the line. Its during these extremely trying times that its even more important to fake being Mother Theresa.

((()))