Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 8 of 15 1 2 6 7 8 9 10 14 15
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,975
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,975
Kaffe.

I've spent the last few days reading through your threads, after having met you on Autumns thread...

I have a few questions/observations. And, I apologize if you already explained, and I missed it...

I'm do sorry about the infidelity that has broken up your marriage. I know the sting of it. It's not a good feeling.
You have a fantastic outlook and humor. Never lose that.
I really admire your love for your girls.

- I see some of your STBX in myself... Re: leading in regards to kids and their schedules/needs. I think most Moms do this. However, you have post after post of non-leading behavior and opportunities under your belt. You "let" STBX do everything. You assume her way is better. You allow her to lead everyone. (Having knowledge of her staying out until wee hours of am/almost overnight, w/a D13 in charge? Really? I'm embarrassed as a Mom. I'm seriously concerned as a fellow citizen.).

- Financial/Finances. There's a really good thread started on another marriage site in regards to gender roles, careers, etc... I think you would benefit from the opinions in there. Have you found a job yet? Have you moved from your parents yet? (sorry, some of this I read during insomnia!!). Some people end up not working, because they wait for the right opportunity, keep starting new businesses, etc... There is nothing wrong w/an honest days labor doing just about anything... It appears that you've had a lot if years of not leading your family financially. STBX has taken over that role ... Not very feminine, doesn't make her feel like she's being taken care if, etc... (Confusion, too, when you talk about living at poverty level, but buying a new Beener/E320... I had an E320 wagon. It's EXPENSIVE to maintain... Just doesn't reconcile w/the rest of your life)

I think you had/have a decent chance if pulling off some serious 180's. I'm not sure if you have the tolerance and/or desire to forgive infidelity... But, based on reading all if this... Those two observations could have been real turnarounds IMO.

You are offering great advice to others. Make sure you're living your own word, and taking care of you.


Me-46, D-21, S15, S13

After many years w/my head in the sand...
I FILED
Divorced 6/2011

The average woman would rather have beauty than brains, because the average man can see better than he can think.
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
~
~ kd ~ Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
~
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
Hi Mindfull, thanks for popping by.

Yes, I've always been "playful", good sense of humour. Had a lot of that growing up with others to me and me back. A lot of reasons to have humour as a defense mechanism, as well. My tool of choice.

I agree that we will see ourselves in the genders that either show up here or are spoken of. I also find it interesting how often I see myself in the WASs being spoken of here which is why I often question myself in that regard.

Although, and I can't remember who specifically pointed this out at one time on the board, that the labels of LBS and WAS... they're just labels and don't define us. Each person is unique and each sitch is unique so there really is no "one size fits all" answer...

IRT the "opportunities to lead" that you indicate you have seen throughout my sitch, I agree. They've been there. As often as I keep a sense of humour about myself, what may not have shown up is the deep pain I felt over the loss of my daughters by the choice I made.

That pain translated in a number of ways which varied from trying to keep the road home paved and smoothed and therefore not interfering with what I perceive as my W wanting to lead the family schedule to an absolute need to protect myself from my W and therefore hiding myself away from her.

Those are just reasons though, of course. There's no time like the present as they say, and I also have a lifetime ahead of me, to start picking up the slack or taking on a role of being in charge. Slowly, I am working to "fix" that in me.

My W so often accused me of snooping and that was true. I still do appreciate knowing what is going on "over there" so that I can get a sense of whether I should be concerned for my kids.

Yes, there were many times that my W left the kids alone, that I found out after the fact. What I am comfortable with to a greater degree is that my kids will be OK, physically, in those situations. Emotionally...? Maybe not so much... but the law doesn't consider emotional much if at all, in regards to the protection of children. That's left to the parents and adults in charge.

In the end, it does appear that my W had no more than a year of that behaviour under her belt and the actual number of times was probably under a dozen. More often, she would take the kids with her to these parties so at least there were others around to keep an eye over all the kids.

Regarding the financials, yes... an E320 is expensive to maintain and it was the one "perk" that I allowed myself in this. The minimal cost of the purchase combined with the proof of up to date maintenance was the reason for the purchase, although that savings will probably just offset the maintenance cost that I have to look forward to. I did see it as a loss off the lot though. So I'm simply enjoying it while I can and expect nothing of it in return except for the enjoyment of having it for the moment.

On the job front. I have picked up a few odd contracts. Nothing big. I do have a job lined up that begins in May. Yes, having a "real" job does have it's value in satisfaction and earnings.

I won't defend my lack of jobs during my M, but when we got together I had decent earnings. While my W's net during the M was more than mine, there were many years my gross was more than my W's and being independent, I could shift resources when and as necessary. I think I downplay my financial contribution perhaps because I've accepted that to some degree as my W's complaint. Let's just say that when a $1000 utility bill or $400 phone bill or $1500 home maintenance bill would surprise us, I was able to take care of it in a timely manner.

What did happen was, as my independence allowed to be a stay at home, the conflicting desires of my W for me to be both "available for the family" and "provide for the family" was the pressure point. My personal desire to be available was more important than my personal desire to be a bread winner, so my earnings did suffer near the end.

There is no "perfect" job, I will concede. My W though, believed that I could and would simply go out and get a job that earned similar or at least close to what she earned and that would allow for traditional 9-5 / mon - fri hours. When looking for work during the M, I was not looking for that perfect job. I was looking for A job, because the regular jobs are few and far between as most jobs these days require off hours, either evenings, weekends, or graveyard... My schooling and provable experience does not qualify me for the more traditional office or management roles that might garner the regular hours.

Again, a reason... I am sure that if I would have spent the 11 years of our M looking for "that" job... I may have found it...

My financial sheet is typical to the independent business owner / farmer... that of "feast and famine"... and at the end of the budget year, things are in the balanced or black side for the most part, or at least it is on the black side over a period of years, there is financial growth. And in between that time, there's times of plenty, and there's times of frugality... I can deal with that... my W... not so much...

Could I? Would I? Should I?

That's where my conflict is. For me, this isn't about fulfilling a role as bread winner for the family. This isn't about me being submissive in the role of taking charge of the family. I mean yes, it is... but that is where I stand different among many in the crowd.

I could "be" that average person, living an average life, and don't get me wrong, that's not a judgement of those who do. I admire people who go through life and appreciate and are grateful for what they have and make do with that.

I simply do not want to be with someone who wants me to play a specific role. In that way, you could call me a hopeless romantic. I was and continue to want to be with someone who loves me and is my friend. That it is not about me bringing home the bacon or wearing a suit and being neatly trimmed.

In that, I "chose" wrong in my W. I loved her, yes. I was prepared to do what was necessary to help maintain the household and raise the kids, yes. But I felt like a "Ken doll" in that there was a picture or compartment in my W's mind, of the "role" I would play in her life... and I did not match that picture in her mind... and I do not aspire to be what I perceive to be that picture in her mind.

I can provide. I have proven that. My W definitely has a skewed view of what I did provide. And that is OK. Because her life DOES revolve around stable earnings and traditional life roles. That's what she needs. That is something that I do not think I could ever provide for her. And I accept that, now.

So in the end, I had my excuses and reasons and my W had her excuses and reasons. They do not match. Because we are... I don't want to sound fatalistic here, but it appears to be the case... incompatible... I would not ask her to be someone she is not... and I choose not to be someone (I think) she wants me to be...

So I've had to resolve that in my minds, soul, and life... accept it... and move on...

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
~
~ kd ~ Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
~
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
Regarding the "infidelity" and whether I could tolerate or forgive it...

I suppose it really depends on the context.

In all fairness, as harsh as this might sound. There's nothing to forgive. If one stays in the context that we are incompatible.

If I look at the OPs, I could point to a framework where they are affair downs. Emotionally unstable, gay, and the equivalent of a rogue priest... and I do say this with the utmost respect of any human, that we all have our lives to lead... I am certainly tolerant...

On the less critical side, I can not judge these people or my W's desire to connect with them. They certainly have their good qualities which likely far surpass any negative qualities, and/or their negative qualities are not harmful to (at least) the children in any physically significant or direct way.

At my core, I am tolerant to a large degree. But I will protect my core at all cost. And at my core, that intimate trust is destroyed. For me, this is not baseball. There's no three strikes... It takes a lot... a huge lot... to destroy that in me... but once it's gone, I do not give it back. 7 billion people on this earth means there's probably a billion or so that might be appropriate for me to share intimacy with... I'd rather be alone than to be hurt that way. But I would risk it again, with someone else. I roll like that...

So to be fair to my W and the sanctity of M, I have to be honest and say that while I probably could get over it... that in many ways, I already have... I simply do not know that at it's most deep level, I could ever allow it back... to the level it was, or even more so... as I'm confident that most people don't truly open themselves up to another 100%. In most cases, there's some form of wall that prevents that from being the case. And... that's OK...

I had mentioned at one point in my posts, that a mutual friend had suggested that I am not M material. That was hugely offensives. Yet I know, that in the mind of my W, that is how she possibly perceives it. Having to frame that in my own mind though, is to understand THAT truth... that in the context of my W, I am not M material... for her...

But I do know that I am relationship worthy... and relationship "material"... and ultimately, I AM M material... just not with my W...

I did want to address that and forgot to in the previous post.

And so it goes...

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,975
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,975
Kaffee -

I need to digest this, but you should be so proud of who you've become, compared to who I first read about...


Me-46, D-21, S15, S13

After many years w/my head in the sand...
I FILED
Divorced 6/2011

The average woman would rather have beauty than brains, because the average man can see better than he can think.
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
~
~ kd ~ Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
~
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
Thanks mindfull...

the person who is showing up right now is the authentic me. The one I had become prior to the M. I had thought most of my stuff was worked out and controlled, but obviously in the unique sitch of M, which I had not been in before, some stuff came back out and I reverted and got stuck.

Again, in re-considering some thoughts about the potential and opportunity to do some 180s, I have to do some more work around that.

I don't so much see it as working on myself to save the M. Rather, there may be opportunity to at least create a dynamic which is more peaceful between ourselves.

I mention this because one of the reasons why I have not worked on that, specifically relating to my W, is because of the amount of spew that I still get from her.

Case in point being an event for D14 which I had mentioned earlier above. With my W's desire to maintain a private life and group of friends away from me, it made perfect sense that I would respect that boundary of hers and not attend the event.

OK, I get that it is my daughter, and if this were a graduation or something similar... a one time event... then I would have chosen differently. But as it is, this is a sporting event and there have been many in the past I have attended and will again be many in the future that I will...

What I could not fathom... which isn't entirely true, because I suppose there is the possibility that I could guess correctly... is that when my W found out WHY I chose not to attend, she was severely pissed at me. I see it as being respectful of her boundaries... Yet somehow... I was NOT respecting her boundaries because I was making an active choice based on her personal life that I was not supposed to know about or snoop into...

loose - loose... double bind... which is always followed by spew...

Anyhow, the answer to this conundrum is simple...

I do what I want and own the choice, responsibilities, and consequences...

I just let D14 know that I would be attending the next event... that simple...

Being the best we can be... living authentic lives... while it is appropriate to make choices in respect to others... in the end, we make choices that serve us in our goals. Mine is to be there at my D14's next event... regardless of circumstances...

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
I know it's important to you to feel in control of a situation..."


SO a CONTROLER needs to control and somehow we fit in to letting people CONTROL us.

Which part of this is our responsibility?

I am friends with MINDFUL if you need to contact her about the articles she mentioned.

Yes you have come a long way. smile smile smile


Me-70, D37,S36
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
~
~ kd ~ Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
~
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
ok, look... I was having a bad year last year, k... grin

Always open to doing that "alt" network thingy so yeah, set me up... Send me a message...

I still have some things I want to peek and poke into regarding where I want to "go" and some other refinements, for sure.

Life never ends... until it ends... smile

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,111
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,111
Hi Kaffe!

I'm reading along here. And something caught my eye. You talk about humor being your defense mechanism of choice. And I will admit it is mine, too.

People say to me you must be okay, you are still laughing. And I think inside, laughing, but still fighting the urge to light someones car on fire. (My favorite "JOKE" because a friend of mine did 18 months in jail for doing just that.... well he did buy her the car.)

So even inside I have that defense mechanism going. I was reading a book about how to emotionally end a relationship. And it talked about defense mechanisms being useful. EXCEPT when they stop us from resolving conflicts.

I openly admit my degree is in GRAPHIC ARTS. So I am slow with all this stuff. But this passage in this book was so darn powerful, hit me hard, and then to finally catch up on your thread and see that same term. Well the Hand of God doesn't shove much harder!

The book is called Leave Him Behind written by Sandra S. Kahn. Not exactly DB material, but I really think this part might be an eye opener for some. And the rest of you can remind me this was covered in Psychology 101 and clearly I wasn't paying attention.

It says: "Defense Mechanism. This term refers to the psychological phenomena that protects us against excessive emotional pain. Defense mechanisms work by distorting reality to make it, in the short term at least, more bearable. But in the long term, these distortions account for our inability to recover from emotionally painful experiences and move on. Simply stated it is impossible to come to terms with an inner conflict and resolve it without focusing directly on the conclict itself. But defense mechanisms often stand between our conflicts and our clear perceptions of them. It is defense mechanisms that keep us from any secrets we have buried in ourselves."

What follows in the book is a whole explaination of how spefically people use defense mechanisms.

Anyway, It really got me thinking. And it is DB to understand that I must change for my R to change!

Aloha,

Wendy


Me 57 XH 58 Sons age 32 & 27 M:32
D final 9/12
Bought 10 Acres and Living the Dream!
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
~
~ kd ~ Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
~
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
18 months! yikes...

*mental note: do not light her car on fire*

grin

A defence mechanism can also be described as a "chicken exit"...

By that, it is a way to defuse a tense situation by putting ourselves into a place where we are strong... in my case, that might be humour... in others, it might be anger or rage... in yet others, it might be sad or depressed behaviours...

It serves us...

But...

it can also be used negatively...

In the case of humour, we may direct the humour inwardly... or at an inanimate or benign object... or... we can make jokes at the expense of our loved ones who have scorned us... so it's actually an attack...

be wise, grasshopper... use your defence mechanism only for good... lol...

One thing that is nice about humour is it can give us a lovely dose of dopamine as well as endorphines, too...

and here's something... apparently it can release growth hormones as well, which affect metabolism...

so laugh yourself skinny... I guess... laugh

Sounds like an interesting book...

but...

is it funny?

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
~
~ kd ~ Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
~
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
speaking of humour...

I just poked the bear...

well, she poked me first! Twice! smirk

So I think she doesn't like me right now, so figured I'd pursue a bit and sent her a quick message to tell her I understand better how I had failed to be there for her in a way that she wanted and needed...

I AM a bugger...

grin

Page 8 of 15 1 2 6 7 8 9 10 14 15

Moderated by  Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard