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#2236806 - 04/10/12 10:53 AM I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3
Sad in WI Offline
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Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
Another nice weekend with the W and family. Another night I slept in the same bed with W (no ML). Took the kids to Chicago on Saturday to go shopping and out to eat. W is talking more about the future and our plans for Summer. Still telling myself not too look to much into it though. Although keeping a positive outlook and taking it one day at a time.

We hosted Easter at our house and had W's family over. W and I cleaned the house together and offered to help with the food (I am the cook). It is so much easier when we are working together. Thought it would be awkward, but W was very supportive and it was one of the nicest holiday's we have hosted. MIL went out of her way to support me and I guess she had a heart to heart with W. I really like spending time with her family.

W went to the doctor this morning since we was having her period every 6-7 days. She called me after the appointment and now has to get an ultrasound since there appears to be a problem on Tuesday. I listened to her and told her that I was hoping for the best (health wise) for her.

Do I offer support of still keep my distance? She is leaning on me should I still be distant?
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#2236808 - 04/10/12 10:59 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Sad in WI Offline
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Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
So came home from work and W was hysterical about doctor's appointment and ultrasound this afternoon.

I simply listended, took care of the kids and picked up the house. Put a movie on for the kids and W and I went to talk in our bedroom. Talked about a lot of stuff, having another baby if she can, life, work and upcoming vacation. Slept in our bed again together.

Did the morning routine with the kids this morning, packed for our trip, gave her a hug and kiss on the cheek and left for work. W will call after her doctor's appointment in the afternoon. I hope she does not have to have another surgery, it would be her third in two years.
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#2236814 - 04/10/12 11:11 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
labug Offline
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Registered: 11/24/11
Posts: 8553
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Another baby? Wow!
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M35 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2236817 - 04/10/12 11:20 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: labug]
Sad in WI Offline
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Posts: 225
I know I said the same thing. Always wanted a third but I thought she was set against it.
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#2236893 - 04/10/12 02:56 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
~ kd ~ Offline
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Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Hey SIW... just putting this back on your plate...

You wrote the following in NM's thread:

"W has flat out said that she is waiting at least six months of my 180's before she beleives that I am for real. Question is will I be patient enough to keep doing what I am doing without W making a step in the same direction?"

So....

Why would you need to be patient and keep doing what you are doing...?

Is it because if it means your W will come back, you will keep doing it...?

Or is it nothing to do with your W and it's like many things in life regarding personal growth... that when it starts to get tough... we stop doing it because we really aren't committed to being better...

Just food for thought...

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#2236894 - 04/10/12 03:00 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: ~ kd ~]
Sad in WI Offline
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I guess the point of the post was that if my 180's were solely to please W it would be discouraging.

However, the growth of SIW is not to please W so regardless of what W thinks SIW will be the better person for the 180's I continue to do.
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#2236897 - 04/10/12 03:11 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
~ kd ~ Offline
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Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
smile

I hope you keep remembering that to the point where that is not even something you need to remember... rather... it is something that your ARE...

cool

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#2236903 - 04/10/12 03:26 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
2thepoint Offline
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Registered: 09/30/11
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Originally Posted By: Sad in WI
I guess the point of the post was that if my 180's were solely to please W it would be discouraging.

However, the growth of SIW is not to please W so regardless of what W thinks SIW will be the better person for the 180's I continue to do.


I heard a variation of the following quote in last sunday's Easter service:

"You only need a parachute if you plan to skydive more than once." In other words, if your 180's are only for your W then you don't need to make then permanent. However, if they are forever, then you better pack your chute!
_________________________
Me48 W50 S15 S11
M20 T23
Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11

It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.

Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife

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#2237033 - 04/10/12 09:35 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: 2thepoint]
Sad in WI Offline
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Well in less that 7 hours the family is leaving for Florida. The only expectation I have is that my kids are going to have the time of their life.

W had her ultrasound this afternoon, but will not know anything until it is read by a technician.

W apologized for the state of our R being in limbo right now. I simply listened and stated that this has been a trying time for all of us. Did not take it any further. She was exhausted and I was tired tonight.

I thought that I would be in full snoop mode, but the only thing that does is get me worked up. It is also very disrespectful, my W is entitled to her space.

She had off of work today so the kids were very happy to see me when I got home. That made me very happy and proud of how things have gotten so much better between me and them. I could see that my W was smiling when both kids were cuddling with me.

I am now just hoping that I will be up and about by 3:30 this morning. Funny since most nights I would normally be up.
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#2237985 - 04/15/12 04:56 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Sad in WI Offline
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Well Florida has been a blast and in short order I will be back in the real world. As I predicted kids had a blast and W enjoyed herself as well. We have been getting along great and the only people that have blowed up were the kids. W and I think we should go to Hawaii next year for Spring Break.

W and I have been joking around, calling ourselves Hun and Dear and some touching as well. She bet a friend that she would not ML in Disney, well she lost that bet. The kids have been great and I have been joined at the hips with them since we got here.

W apologized for in her words f***king things up. In my heart I don't think that is true that all is lost. Other than that there has been no talk of the R, D or our M now for over a week. My gut is telling me to leave that alone. The only talk we even had remotely related to our M was when W brought up finances and told me she was happy that we could now talk about them without blowing up.

Since she dropped the bomb two months ago we are now spending more time together than we have in years. I know it is bad, but I think I am falling more in love with her as we spend more time together.

This is making me anxious since I then get myself worked up wondering if and when the other shoe is going to drop. I know this is the wrong attitude to have, but it is what I am feeling at the moment.
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#2238140 - 04/16/12 01:37 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Sad in WI Offline
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Well back home with the family. It was a nice trip. Family and I had some good quality time together, something I wish I would have done ages ago. Also had some time with W just the two of us hanging out. W again talked about having another child.

As one expects the kids did act up, but when they did W and I were on the same page regarding discipline, etc. Kids were not able to pit W and I against each other, like they could in the past. In the five days we were together we did not argue even though the kids and weather took the best out of me (and her according to W).

I am living my life striving to be the best SIW I can be. Although the W has not brought up the D, I am anxious about what lies ahead. When I am not worried about a future I cannot control living my life is so much easier. I do not know why I let my mind wonder.

I need to stay on my path, I just wish I did not wander off every now and then.
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#2238361 - 04/16/12 05:23 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Sad in WI Offline
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Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
Limboland (or me venting)

The issue of being in Limbo and advice given by those came up in another forum today. Due to a power outage I was stuck in the elevator for 2.5 hours without power. Lot of time to sit and reflect.

Is it better to take things day by day or simply acknowledge that my R is in a state of Limbo? Don't know how to answer that one and see the pros and cons of both approaches.

In my head I have an internal timeline of where I want my life to be 1, 2, 3, and 6 months from now. Keeping a little check list of where I am at with my kids, job and W. Keeps me focused and when I am getting down on myself lets me remember where I came from and where I have been.

Is it possible to happy and miserable at the same time? I love the connection I now have with my kids, the time I spend with my W and the family. I then am sad b/c I want so much more. I then tell myself to step back.

Maybe this is vacation hangover, but we all had such a good time. Actually it is usually like that when we are all hanging it. If things are going good, why then do I insist that the other proverbial shoe will drop with my W?

And really up to this point none of her actions have really hurt me (taking the ring off, changed F/B status, and met with L). Maybe since she is saying nothing I am assuming that she is still proceeding with the D.

I can't read her mind (or anyone's mind) for that matter so I should just relax. I know that I have to be patient with my W if I want to have a R with her again.

I think a couple games of Chutes and Ladders with D6 will settle me down tonight.
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D:8

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#2238428 - 04/16/12 10:18 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Sad in WI Offline
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Well tonight was interesting, W went to kickboxing and came home took a shower and then told me that I was smothering her. I don't know how I was since I saw her briefly before work and an hour tonight.

I was becoming frustrated because I have let her commence the communication and have kept the conversations short. W told me she was trying, but she does not know how to change her feelings. I said that there are people the could possibly help us.

I then said that until she tells me that she wants to discuss reconciliation I fully expect her to proceed with D.

Does someone have a towel I can throw?
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#2238493 - 04/17/12 04:41 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Sad in WI Offline
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Well on a positive note I know that my R with the kids is still fantastic and will continue to be despite W.

I don't know how to apporach her. Do I chalk it up to her being exhausted from the trip? After we talked she said that she needs to get used to being home and wanted to be alone to read her book. Said I had no problem with that and if she would have told me the kids and I would have left the house or done something without her.

W asked if she could take the kids to her friends house in two weeks since her friend's H is out of town that weekend. I said that it sounds like you will have a good time. The old SIW would have been mad that she was taking the kids for the weekend, but I simply smiled and said have fun.

This morning I will get the kids ready like I normally do and focus on them.

W told me that she has closed herself off to me and does not know what she can do to change that. I was reading some of MWD's old posts wherein she said that love is not only a feeling, but a choice and that you have to decide each morning to do things that will bring you closer to your spouse and stop doing things that push you away further.

I know that if I continue to stir the pot with her that will annoy her and nothing good will come of it. That is a waste of time and energy, but at this point I am frustrated.

I told her that if she moves out or proceeds with the D I cannot stop her. That is her choice and I cannot change it.

To this point, I have been taking things day by day, never bringing up our R or the future. She has been discussing family plans and wanting to have another child.

I am expecting the worse from W and hoping for the best.
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#2238511 - 04/17/12 08:01 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Sad in WI Offline
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W and I talked this morning before the kids were up. W told me that she wanted to be left alone Monday Night and did not want to talk. Said we could have avoided the whole conversation if I just let her be.

She then told me that she does not want me to think that everything is now OK since we went on vacation. Simply told her that I know this.
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#2238540 - 04/17/12 10:27 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
labug Offline
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Registered: 11/24/11
Posts: 8553
Loc: Sonoran Desert
This is a process of learning about and improving yourself. We all get to our endpoint, whatever that may be. at different times because we have different lessons to learn.

Some people do things a different way, it works for them and they then think everyone should do it their way. I've had enough spins on this planet to know that there is no one size fits all for what humans do from birth to death and everything in between.

There are a few universal requisites, like boundaries and respect. Everyone deserves those, everyone should honor those.

Would what you are doing right now be any different if you were physically separated, divorced, alone, dating?
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M35 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2238542 - 04/17/12 10:30 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: labug]
Sad in WI Offline
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If we were physically separated I would be doing less with the kids and house and have more time on my own. The interactions with W would be less and probably focused on the kids and finances.

If I were divorced it would be pretty much like separated.

Alone - I think that is where I am right now.

Dating - I would not lose sight of my 180's and listen and listen.
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#2238554 - 04/17/12 11:08 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
labug Offline
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Registered: 11/24/11
Posts: 8553
Loc: Sonoran Desert
But, would you still be working on yourself or would you let that go because the marriage was over?

Are your changes just a tactic to get her back?
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M35 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2238557 - 04/17/12 11:12 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: labug]
Sad in WI Offline
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I would still be doing my 180's and working on being a better SIW. I guess I should have addes that the 180's would be done in any of the above-referenced situations.

If my changes were a tactic to get her back I think I would have stopped awhile ago.

Most of my 180's had to do with the kids, finances and household stuff, I am making strides in these three areas. A few of my 180's for my wife are to listen, be more open minded and no snooping.
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#2238565 - 04/17/12 11:25 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
labug Offline
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Registered: 11/24/11
Posts: 8553
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Because no matter where I go, there I am.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M35 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2238566 - 04/17/12 11:31 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: labug]
Sad in WI Offline
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Registered: 03/01/12
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Makes sense. My head and heart are telling me now to yet throw in the towel with the W. I have set a timeline to do this.
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#2238570 - 04/17/12 11:36 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
labug Offline
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Registered: 11/24/11
Posts: 8553
Loc: Sonoran Desert
A timeline fro reevaluation or a timeline for throwing in the towel?
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M35 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2238571 - 04/17/12 11:38 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: labug]
Sad in WI Offline
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Both. As a senior member of the board I respect your opinion. Is my sitch so messed up that I should walk away now?
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#2238572 - 04/17/12 11:46 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
labug Offline
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Registered: 11/24/11
Posts: 8553
Loc: Sonoran Desert
No matter how long anyone has been on this board, or any other, we all just have our singular experiences...

Each of us has to decide for ourselves when that time is. If you're looking for an OK to quit...or stay, that won't come from me.

That has to be yours to decide.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M35 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2238577 - 04/17/12 11:58 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: labug]
Sad in WI Offline
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Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
I guess I am struggling with what to do. I feel that since the bomb was dropped and today has been less than two months.

My R with kids is fantastic and I am so much more involved in there care and needs. I am not emotionally prepared to see them half of the time and feel like the new SIW would not throw in the towel on a R after one lousy conversation.

I just get frustrated with the fence sitting my W is doing. She has stated that she has no plans to move or file D anytime soon. However, when I even suggested a MC her only response was that we tried it once before.
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D:8

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#2238637 - 04/17/12 02:43 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
adinva Offline
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Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 2762
Loc: VA
There's only one way it's going to end if you want it to end now. Read other threads to get a feel for how patient you're going to have to be. Your sitch shows promise.
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Adinva 48 H48
T22 M19 S16 S14
6/15/11 IDLY
6/11-12/12 in-home sep
12/16/12 H moved out
Nothing signed yet
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Be the change you want to see in the world (Gandhi)

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#2238638 - 04/17/12 02:44 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: adinva]
Sad in WI Offline
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Registered: 03/01/12
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Adinva,

Thank you. I have added patience as another trait that I have to work on getting better with.

SIW
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#2238644 - 04/17/12 02:55 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
~ kd ~ Offline
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Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Originally Posted By: Sad in WI
I just get frustrated with the fence sitting my W is doing. She has stated that she has no plans to move or file D anytime soon. However, when I even suggested a MC her only response was that we tried it once before.


Many of us understand that frustration. My W (now I'm coming on 18 mos since I moved out) told me from the very beginning that she was that whole script thing they say... and was happy going on with life (living separate lives) and had no desire to file...

Basically, perpetual limbo...

Why do you think that is, SIW?

Do you think that is because she did not want to be M to me?

Or do you think that maybe... just maybe... she hoped that one day, I might come around and be the man... the H... she wanted me to be...?

'cause from what I've seen in life and relationships... when things are over... they get over and done... that simple...

Do you really believe that when your W answered your question about MC with saying you'd tried it before... did she say, "no. not going to do it again." Or did she say you tried it before...

Because if she did not say absolutely no... Could it be possible that she is really wanting you to convince her that things will be different at MC... this time...?

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#2238647 - 04/17/12 03:03 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: ~ kd ~]
Sad in WI Offline
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Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
KD,

I am no expert on any of this, but I would say that she is hoping for the H she wants you to be.

She did not say no to the MC. I think it is something we should try, but not sure how to discuss this with her.

She has consitently told me that the "changes (180's)" I have made are temporary and that she expects them to end soon.

I think I will have to give it time, time for my W, time for me to grow and continue to work on my 180's.
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D:8

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#2238650 - 04/17/12 03:11 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Originally Posted By: Sad in WI
KD,

I am no expert on any of this, but I would say that she is hoping for the H she wants you to be.


yup... I'd say you are an expert and bang on...

So really... it is my choice to step up and be the H she wants me to be... unless I really do not want to be that person... or I can not be someone that at least resembles that person, in some way, for my W...

I've heard it said this way, "If you are working on them, then they will eventually fail."

Kinda the same thing as trying...

No try... do... or do not...

The 180s have to be a habit... are they, yet?

And second of all... are the 180s something that your W actually likes?

Not because you are doing them to please your W... you are doing them for you...

But if your W doesn't dig those 180s, then really it is of no value for her to let you know she does not think they will last... that really just becomes a test for you... putting your focus on making the 180s last... rather than doing 180s that you want to do... that you know she also appreciates...

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#2238653 - 04/17/12 03:18 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: ~ kd ~]
Sad in WI Offline
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Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
KD,

The 180's that my W has noticed and has complimented me on are the following:

* Getting the kids ready for school, dropping them off
* Helping with afterschool activities
* Helping more with their homework and watching them after school
* Doing more activities with the kids
* Doing more of the housework

- These are now habit for me and for me since I would be doing these with or without my W.

I have been doing a few 180's with my W

* Finances - Were a problem in the past (while W likes this one, she is mad because it took her to discuss a D before we could talk like adults)
* I make her breakfast and coffee in the morning before she has to leave (She has stated that she is no longer is such a rush and has a little time to talk)
* Respect her privacy since she leaves ecerything out in the open (a problem for me since I snoop)
* Listening and validating

I figure that maybe with the exception of coffee and breakfast these 180's would apply to any relationship I would be in.
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2238659 - 04/17/12 03:36 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Good...

BTW, you mention the finances one that she is mad... did you tell her that you knew she was mad about it, so you decided to work on it? Or is that a conclusion she came to, on her own?

It's a fine line, doing because you want to and doing FOR someone... because really, when doing something positive in the context of another... the truth is... it is both reasons...

Still, there is no reason to inform your W that you are doing anything for her... it can be truth... but that is a conclusion that she can come to if she wants... you are simply doing it because you enjoy it and it is something you want to do...

'cause really... what man doesn't want to see his W happy...? Knowing that he contributed in some way, to her happiness...

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#2238661 - 04/17/12 03:39 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: ~ kd ~]
Sad in WI Offline
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Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
KD,

Finances was one of the first 180's since I knew this was a sore spot and really the only thing we fought about. I like being more involved with the finances, but would admit it is for both reasons.

SIW
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#2238772 - 04/17/12 11:16 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Sad in WI Offline
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Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
As luck would have it W brought up our R. The "changes" I have made have left her mad, confused and bewildered. According to W I am not acting like the real SIW. Although she appreciates them they will soon pass.

She has acknowledged that the last two months I have been very generous and caring. This makes her mad since it took her to get to this point for me to change. At that time I told her that it is too a she feels that way but that I can only take it one day at a time.

The issue of space came up and I told her that it was her who as been texting/e-mailing while we are at work. In a typical day she will send 5 or 6 emails a day to which i respond in a sentance. Any contact at work on my end would have to be pressing. I will text her to find out which one of us will pick up D6. Did not consider ths an issue so I just sat and listened.

Is this limbo or positive movement from W? I thought this wa where we were for some time.

It seems that when my W sees SIW proceeding with my 180's she will let her guard down which leads her to focus on the bad in order to keep her distance.

I know the walls are her creation and that she will have to address them if we have any chance to reconcile. Anyone else in this situation?
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2238784 - 04/18/12 12:57 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
All I can say is that what you describe, I believe, is not odd.

Eventually, she will either start believing the changes are real... or she will just stop noticing or commenting on the changes...

What ever you do, keep doing them. As I believe they are changes that you want regardless, so they are working... for you...

Truth is, your W is admitting she likes the changes... she just doesn't want to like them... so she tests you, perhaps in the hope that you will stop... or perhaps as the best way she can encourage you to keep doing them...

From what I understand, there's sometimes a senses of jealousy attributed to that anger at your changes... and that is the thoughts they get in their head when they think that those changes will benefit someone else...

Don't give up on your positive changes. Keep on keeping on...

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#2238841 - 04/18/12 10:39 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: ~ kd ~]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/11
Posts: 8553
Loc: Sonoran Desert
I think her confusion is a positive sign as what you are doing is challenging her current beliefs about you.

She's been made a bit off balance by it all.

The scales could tip either way.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M35 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2238861 - 04/18/12 11:35 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: labug]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
As luck with have it after the kids were asleep W wanted to talk some more. W stated that it took her a long time to get to the point of D and will take a long time for things to change.

I can respect her feelings, but realize that this is going to take a lot of patience on my part.

I then thought about things and asked when was the last time we sat down and talked about our R? W said sometime in early 2011. It made me sad to think that it had been that long and that if this would turn around how much more involved we would have to be.

I brought up talking to another MC, but she is not receptive to it. Perhaps I will let some time pass to see where she stands.
The last time we went to a marriage counselor the main issues were me not coming home at a reasonable time (at work too late) and when I missed my S10 hockey tournament. Since then I have been coming home and have not missed a S10 game. We did have positive results and the MC thought that after 6 visits we did not need to see her any longer.

This morning W had to go to a class rather than to work so she stayed home longer than usual. I continued my normal routine with the kids and she remarked how much stuff I do around the house before I am out the door.

Since she would not be at work I picked her up a salad for lunch and she thanked me for thinking about her.

So I will continue to press on. I think I should change me name to Marching On In Wisconsin.
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2238893 - 04/18/12 01:39 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
adinva Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 2762
Loc: VA
You are doing great. That your W thinks change is possible, even thought she thinks it'll take a long time, is a very good sign. Show how patient and consistent you are.
_________________________
Adinva 48 H48
T22 M19 S16 S14
6/15/11 IDLY
6/11-12/12 in-home sep
12/16/12 H moved out
Nothing signed yet
____
Be the change you want to see in the world (Gandhi)

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#2238894 - 04/18/12 01:41 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: adinva]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
Adinva,

Thank you for the kind words. I will keep pressing on.

SIW
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2239000 - 04/18/12 09:25 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
Today was an ok day. W had to go to an ACLS class in the morning so she stayed at the house later than she normally would. I was doing the usual things, wash, dishes, picking up and taking care of the animals, etc. She finally asked what I was doing and I told her that I do this everyday after she leaves for work. She said that she was impressed. I just smiled.

W then texted me while at class a few times. I texted her that I would pick up the kids and make dinner. She came home earlier than expected, we talked about the class and I let her read her book until her kick boxing class.

Meanwhile I grilled chicken, zucchini and made rice for the kids (she normally does not eat a meal, usually something light). While reading she asked when dinner was ready and ate with us. She thanked me for making dinner, took D6 to kick boxing with her and S10 and I went to the park.

W wanted to read (and from my experience on Monday) I let her be. In the past and to be honest I struggle with the space issue. Not texting, e-mailing or calling is easier for me than when we are together. I am trying to better with the space issue, today was alright.
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2239289 - 04/19/12 04:40 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
Today has not been a great day for SIW, morning was decent with W, but S10 has been increasingly acting up since we went to FA. W leaves at 6:45 and I am alone with them til school at 8:25. He was acting up so much today that I locked myself in my room and texted W saying that S10 is having one of those days.

She called and talked a bit. I do have a hard time not telling her how I am feeling. She told me it was ok and that S10 has been on a tear lately.

I really am fighting the urge to snoop on my W again. This being in limbo messes with my mind which then in turn makes me anxious and more nosy. W has told me she is confused and does not know what she is doing so what good would snooping do?

Regarding the finances I did tell her that I looked at the bills and believed that what we had to pay was much less than what she wanted. She then provided a list and gave me access to her account so that I could verify that the referenced bills were being paid. I don't think this a d*ck move on my part and would fully expect that if the shoe was on the other foot she would want the same.
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2239749 - 04/21/12 09:49 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
Well just when I thought it could not get any worse. W and I were supposed to go to the company dinner tonight, but then decided to take her sister. Told her it was not a big idea, but she could tell I was upset.

Which then turnes into WWIII. Told her that since we have come back from FA she has been cold and distant. W then told me that one of us has to move, that she no longer likes coming home and now I am home too much.

I said that since she was the one unhappy she should leave. I was then called a selfish blah blah blah. She doesn't love me and that won't change.

She then went to Kick Boxing and decided that I would leave for the weekend. Sent a text that I would be staying at my brother's house. I then went to look at a bunch of places, but did not sign any lease.

We then proceed to text back and forth and tells me that she wants sometime to think about stuff.

This week I am staying at my Grandmas and will take kids to school and then pick them up after work. I will then leave before they go to bed.

Since my 180's were about the kids I do not want them to be upset right now. I will do my best to keep things with them constant and steady.

With my W I will see her and keep the contact to a minimum.

I am not sure what else to do at this point.
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2239772 - 04/21/12 11:48 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/11
Posts: 8553
Loc: Sonoran Desert
So, what would have done differently if you could do it over again?
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M35 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2239797 - 04/22/12 01:56 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: labug]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
Well I would have been numb to the changing of her mind.

Left the house when it got nasty.

Continue with the 180's.
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2239798 - 04/22/12 02:13 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
mindfull Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/08
Posts: 3975
Sad.

I've been reading along. Your W is a little hard to figure out. She's truly hot and cold... Great just before and during you vaca, talking about future vaca's, yet still saw L, and acts like this upon return.

I know you were considerably less involved w/the kids before, but I'm exhausted reading all that you do for them, the house, finances, etc... While W sits on her duff and reads... From what you explained, this doesn't sound like a man getting more involve, it sounds like an entitled woman getting her man to do it all.

It sure feels like she's losing respect...

I cant remember if you have any other red flags for infidelity...
_________________________
Me-46, D-21, S15, S13

After many years w/my head in the sand...
I FILED
Divorced 6/2011

The average woman would rather have beauty than brains, because the average man can see better than he can think.

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#2239799 - 04/22/12 02:20 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: mindfull]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
Mindfull,

Hot and cold is right. Although one never knows we are still having sex and she never waivers from her schedule. A big obstacle I have right now is discussing R/M with the W. We are discussing the possibility of a MC. I told her I think it might help to facilitate communication, but she has not said either way other than that she wants to think about it. Thanks for reading about my sitch.

SIW
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2239807 - 04/22/12 03:06 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
isittoolate Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/11
Posts: 74
Loc: UK
Sad

Just read your sitch for the last month and it is similar to mine.

My W wants to separate, but for me to move out. This is the only logical way it could happen given our jobs, house, two sons etc.

Nov 11, I was given 9 weeks to look for a place (I agreed to it as the previous few months she had made my life miserable being cold,distant and uncommunicative and not letting me touch her) then I found DB/DR and started 180s and GAL etc and after 9 weeks she admitted that things were confusing for her - I had made things harder by my 180s...another month went by and things were ok but then she suddenly went cold,distant, uncommunicative etc. The trigger was her reading a sample of a book on my kindle (not DB/DR), downloading it on her kindle and assuming that everything I was doing was to stop the separation/divorce. The book has a provocative title along the lines of Stop Your Divorce, BUT she actually downloaded a different one to the one I was reading!!

Anyway, she started to arrange visits to her parents without me and other nights out with mutual friends without me and this triggered a R talk which ended with me agreeing to move out. I thought it would be good to get time and space apart but I didnt want a 6 month let ( the minimum in UK) so I engineered 4 weeks apart. I thought by separating it would be a big 180! - wrong.

I work away a lot so I have filled my diary with work away from home and come home at the weekends and stay in a holiday cottage 10 miles from home).

Instantly she changed and things between us became a lot better in the 7 days before I left, Easter weekend was good and she even groomed me in the last two days before I left - eyebrows and hair - weird to say the least!

I am two weeks into separation and regret moving out. It feels like she is easing me down the road and is happy about it. She stopped wearing her wedding rings (tho I dont know exactly when but it was before i moved out). For the first time she has told her girlfriends about the separation.

I have tried to LRT but because I work away so much, I dont think minimal contact has much effect on her. I never ring her at work as she is so busy, the same with email - says she is too busy. One good thing is that she hasn't mentioned what will happen in 12 days time when I move back in. But I fully expect her to say that she was happy with the temporary separation and wants to make it longer term - we shall see.

NB We rarely have R talks (3 in 5 months)there is no intimacy between us (I am not allowed to even hold her hand), she will not go on a date with me (except to the movies), and she has NEVER stated or implied that she is interested in working on our marriage.

In your sitch you dont mention the things that she 'complained' about before the bomb. Try to make a list of even the innocous ones that you thought she was wrong about - see if you are addressing them (is she letting you address them?).

Also set some goals and put them on here for the vets to read through.

Ill keep in touch, Best of luck
_________________________
Me 45 W 42
T 11 M 9
S7 S4
Bomb on 11/15/11
2nd Bomb on 3/27/12
Moved out 4/9/12
Moved back in 4/23/12
W wants to work on US 5/20/12 - Now Piecing!

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#2239809 - 04/22/12 03:26 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: isittoolate]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Maybe my interpretation of LRT is skewed... it seems to me that a lot of people think that LRT is another way to work on an M as a DB method...

From the context of the LBS, I feel LRT is a conversion of an M relationship to an acquaintance relationship... if I read the chapter in DR and read the 37 rules... that's how it sounds to me...

If one can stay in the same house, the R in LRT should be as a room mate... we don't actively pursue a room mate and generally understand that they have a life and we have a life and just don't be noisy when you bring a date back to the pad...

If we are in LRT, it's quite likely because the WAS really sees us at best as a room mate...

The only real concern that I've seen posted regarding moving out is the legal ramifications... get that looked into...

otherwise, find another room mate if you can't live with the one you have... for what ever reason...

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#2239829 - 04/22/12 06:58 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: ~ kd ~]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
For his week I will be staying ith my Grandma at night, but continue doing all the same things I am doing now for the kids. I have no intention of moving I.e. signing lease etc at this time. This is far from ideal but is cost efficient and in the event we are able to work things out will not hurt us financially.

W thinks that if I am away for a bit she will have time to think without me breathing down her neck. While I may not be too keen on this idea I will try doing this or a week or two. She is not demanding any type of restrictions of being at the house and I can come and go as I please.

W suggested that it would be good to go out on a date and try starting over. That is what I want so we will see how this week goes.
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2239834 - 04/22/12 08:02 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
isittoolate Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/11
Posts: 74
Loc: UK
Remember on the date it should be small talk, happy talk, no R talk.
_________________________
Me 45 W 42
T 11 M 9
S7 S4
Bomb on 11/15/11
2nd Bomb on 3/27/12
Moved out 4/9/12
Moved back in 4/23/12
W wants to work on US 5/20/12 - Now Piecing!

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#2239850 - 04/22/12 09:31 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: isittoolate]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
OK, well... something is not jiving here, SIW...

Wasn't it you that we were discussing no so long ago that maybe LRT might not be the tool you need to use...

And now... you're W is feeling pressure and wanting you to move out...

Yet she's saying she'd like to maybe try dating...

I get that you are confused, my friend...

Why are you still reacting to your W?

Is it your nature to waffle like that? Or is that something that's happened in your recently...?

Like a puppy dog desperate for their master's attention... you are willing to do what ever your W asks you to do... on her whim... and in the moment of any of her emotions...

Are you prepared to keep doing that for the rest of your life? Because you could be setting a precedent...

At some point... you are going to have to make a choice...

Are you IN... or are your OUT?

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#2239989 - 04/23/12 06:07 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: ~ kd ~]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
KD,

I am IN on saving this M, but am thorougly confused on what I can do to save it. Saturday Night we spent some time together and had sex, talked about how stupid it was to fight about going to this dance.

Then on Sunday she was a bear snapping on everyone. She took kids to Target so I packed a few things in my car so that I could sleep at my Grandma's house.

While I was in Milwaukee to get a key to the house she went with the kids to a friend's house. She texted when she would be home so I then went back and made the kid's dinner and hung out with them until they went to bed.

W did text me saying that it was a long day and that I did not have to stay there, but I did. I am hback home now and trying to determine what I am going to do. I certainly do not want the kids to know that I am not here and have no intention of using them as pawns.

At some point today W and I are going to have to talk about this. When we fought Saturday Morning (while the kids were outside) she in no uncertain terms made it clear that one of us had to leave the house. When I told her that since she is the only one that was unhappy then she should go she then went ballistic calling me selfish. At that point I should have walked away instead of being baited to fight more.

So then I leave to look for Apts and she then starts texting and calling. Shen then texts and tells me that she needs time to think about things, but that I am breathing down her neck.

I then suggest that rather than one of us moving and entering into a lease it may be better for us to stay with relatives for a few days so that we could have some time apart to sort things out.

This is a great idea in theory, but W's job requires me to take the kids to school daily and then I have to pick up D6 from day care.

Since my 180's were geared to the kids and helping with the house I do not want to stop doing them.

She likes my 180's but then is mad that it took her to this point to get me to change. To that I stated other than telling me these things when you wanted a divorce, when have we talked about these things? To her recollection it has been at least over a year.

When we are together I will do my best DB'ing to not show her any emotions. Be civil and polite, but not get sucked in to her emotions.
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2240009 - 04/23/12 09:39 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
SIW...

Saturday morning you fought with your W...

Saturday evening you had sex with your W...

On Sunday she was irritable so you packed more stuff to leave...

I'm guessing you tell your W you want to stay and work on the M...

But you leave when the going gets tough...

I get that you are confused...

Can you see how the above and your actions may be confusing to your W, as well?

She is asking for space...

but asking you to move...

Could it be that the only way she feels that she can get the "space" she needs to sort her thoughts, is with you not around her?

Think maybe that is because she feels you are smothering her when you are around...?

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#2240012 - 04/23/12 09:44 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: ~ kd ~]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
KD,

She feels like I am smothering when I am around. I am trying to keep our interactions to a minimum since she said I was smothering her. It is easy to keep the attention on the kids and doing stuff with them.

She told me that point blank that she can't sort things out when I am home.

I have not said much about our R/M since Saturday Morning.

Do I stay away for a few days? I don't want to, but just don't know what to do.

SIW
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2240016 - 04/23/12 09:50 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/11
Posts: 8553
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Quote:
told her that since she is the only one that was unhappy then she should go she then went ballistic calling me selfish.


SIW, I don't draw a lot of hard lines around here but this is one. If she's the unhappy one, she should leave.

And if she tantrums, you can walk away after saying "When you can talk to me respectfully, I will talk to you."

You will be OK.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M35 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2240019 - 04/23/12 09:55 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
ok...

but who initiated sex saturday night? Think to the earliest moment when you KNEW there would be sex... or even suspected it...

What made that happen, for you? ie. She said, "your cologne smells good" and you realized there'd be sumfin sumfin tonight...

In your previous post you mentioned that you were in to save the M. That's fine. That's a decision you have made.

Before you can save the M... the two of you need to save yourselves...

She needs the space?

Maybe... stop having sex with her... we all need release, but once she's had the sex... she's irritable... think... maybe that's because she is mad at herself for being intimate with you...? That she somehow sees it as you manipulating her to having sex? That... you are smothering her...

Yeah... take a few days off... he1l... visit with your g-ma for the week... and then take a little vacay for yourself this weekend... maybe even take the kids somewhere... so your W can have space...

Might that work for you?

That certainly would give her some space that she is asking for.

And when you ARE with her... just be there... go about your daily "stuff"... that involves your W as little as possible...

Just some thoughts... Your choice how to give her more space...

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#2240022 - 04/23/12 10:00 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: ~ kd ~]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
KD,

She iniated the Sex (she was in bed after I got home on Saturday Night) and said nothing of it Sunday. I think the idea of taking this week off would be ok. I will coninue to be there and do my stuff with little interaction with her. I will also let her initiate all e-mail, text or calls.

I think by doing this I will have given her space.

SIW
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2240026 - 04/23/12 10:08 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
horsewnoname Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/12
Posts: 32
Excellent news! It is very wise of you to be staying clear of M/R talk. Sounds like you are giving her lots of space and just being her friend and parenting partner. Plus you are keeping your cool and knowing when to back off.
Yeah, anxiety is my biggest problem right now too. I've been making the effort of only thinking positive thoughts about W, especially the happy times that we've had together. It helps and when you do interact with her...your friendship efforts won't appear forced and you will be more open to your compassion towards her.
Good luck.

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#2240027 - 04/23/12 10:08 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Sounds like a great plan! smile

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#2240050 - 04/23/12 10:44 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: labug]
Starsky309 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 4652
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: labug
Quote:
told her that since she is the only one that was unhappy then she should go she then went ballistic calling me selfish.


SIW, I don't draw a lot of hard lines around here but this is one. If she's the unhappy one, she should leave.

And if she tantrums, you can walk away after saying "When you can talk to me respectfully, I will talk to you."

You will be OK.



BINGO. ^^^ whistle


Starsky
_________________________
At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)

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#2240114 - 04/23/12 02:08 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Starsky309]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
My stupid mind is wandering again. If I stay away for a week and keep interactions to a minimum doesn't this signal to W that I am fine with the D?

I will admit that I do not get the "space" issue, maybe because it has never been an issue for me.
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2240119 - 04/23/12 02:24 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
The most likely reason that you don't "get" space... is because you do not WANT space...

Think about that friend you have... that you kinda like... but that can be REEAAAALLLL annoying to be with for any length of time...

It's kinda like that... but different...

Yes... yes... it has been discussed before... and it will be debated again... many times into the future...

If the LBS gives space in a way that they THINK the WAS wants space, will that not indicate they do not care and make it easier for the WAS to move on...

Try to imagine it this way:

+ keep smothering her and she will want to leave in a more permanent way... and probably resent you...

+ give her space and she might want to move on... but at least she won't resent you so perhaps the two of you can get back to being better friends and co-parenting...

~~~~~~~~~~

the alternative is:

+ give her space and she might actually miss you... or at least have enough time to not dislike you... helping her consider that perhaps there might be an opportunity to try... one more time... to work things out...

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#2240120 - 04/23/12 02:26 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: ~ kd ~]
Sad in WI Offline
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Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
KD,

Makes sense. Thanks.

SIW
_________________________
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D:8

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#2240124 - 04/23/12 02:35 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Sad in WI Offline
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Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
KD,

And during the week off act like it is ok correct? Don't let W know how I am really feeling.

SIW
_________________________
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S:12
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#2240130 - 04/23/12 02:46 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
yes...

because really... you do need to be ok with it... in the event that it does happen...

also... not to manipulate... but your W has to understand and believe that you ARE ok with it... because otherwise, she may likely believe that you are continuing to pine over her, will always be there, and will feel pressured by you...

The way to help her best in that... is to allow her to feel and believe that if she chooses to stay with you... it is HER CHOICE... not pressure nor manipulation... not from you... and not from anyone...

make sense?

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#2240131 - 04/23/12 02:46 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: ~ kd ~]
Sad in WI Offline
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Crystal Clear.
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#2240150 - 04/23/12 03:33 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Starsky309]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/11
Posts: 8553
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Originally Posted By: labug
Quote:
told her that since she is the only one that was unhappy then she should go she then went ballistic calling me selfish.


SIW, I don't draw a lot of hard lines around here but this is one. If she's the unhappy one, she should leave.

And if she tantrums, you can walk away after saying "When you can talk to me respectfully, I will talk to you."

You will be OK.



BINGO. ^^^ whistle


Starsky


Not quite a Bingo, in my haste earlier I left out a very important part. The feeling part: "W when you raise your voice and speak angrily I feel disrespected (or whatever the feeling is for you, SIW) if you continue..."

We all need to understand that our words have impact and that there are consequences to hurtful words and actions. This clearly states your boundary.

Without that it's more like the old parental reasoning, "Because I said so."

And I don't think you want to have parent-child R with her.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M35 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2240178 - 04/23/12 04:56 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: labug]
isittoolate Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/11
Posts: 74
Loc: UK
dont want to hijack the thread but what if the WAW is:

cold,distant, uncommunicative, answering with short pointed responses...do I chase that cheeseless tunnel with 'open' questions....or GAL...or do both.

NB I would be acting 'As if' etc

....in this sitch we are living together but she wants ME to move out and her to live in our house with kids.
_________________________
Me 45 W 42
T 11 M 9
S7 S4
Bomb on 11/15/11
2nd Bomb on 3/27/12
Moved out 4/9/12
Moved back in 4/23/12
W wants to work on US 5/20/12 - Now Piecing!

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#2240186 - 04/23/12 05:22 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: isittoolate]
~ kd ~ Offline
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Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Not sure if that was rhetorical IITL or if it was a question for SIW...

space + time + "act as if" (it's ok if you D) = better you

for a WAS... this can possibly lead to at the very least, little to no resentment, possible decent "friendship" which allows for decent co-parenting... and could even lead to the WAS questioning the decision and maybe giving it another go...

of course... if you have an MLCer... it all leads to resentment... because it's all the LBS fault no matter what the LBSer does... crazy

That one... time... time.... and more time... and keeping the road home paved and smooth... in the event that the person that ends up on the other side of the MLC tunnel is someone the LBS actually likes and wants to be with...

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#2240208 - 04/23/12 06:11 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: ~ kd ~]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2088
Copying from Hurt84's thread:

Originally Posted By: SIW
Accuray,
This is a stupid question and I don't mean to hi-jack a thread. I am in day 2 of staying at my grandma's house to give her some space. If we don't text/email for that week isn't that my signal that I don't care that we are headed for D? I will admit I am not good with the space thing.
SIW


Hi SIW,

That is a huge, common LBS fear -- if I stop pursuing, won't WAS assume that I've given up?

Look at it this way -- pursuing doesn't work. You know it doesn't work. There is not one case you'll find anywhere that it did work, it just doesn't. The notion that you have to "fight for your WAS" by pursuing is a fictional Hollywood concept perpetrated by people who have never been in the situation.

If you've told your wife once that you want to save the marriage, she knows.

When your kid is learning to ride a bike, you put training wheels on. The outcome you want is "knows how to ride a two wheel bike". That will never happen as long as the training wheels are installed because the training wheels themselves prevent it from happening.

When you take the training wheels off, you have to take a scary leap of faith. Chances are the first couple rides are going to be very rough. If the minute your kid falls off the bike, you rush to put the training wheels back on, your desired outcome will never happen. You have to let it ride until it's had time to have it's impact, and it gets worse before it gets better. There are no shortcuts, there is necessary pain to reach the goal.

Your pursuit is the training wheels. As long as you pursue, your marriage will NOT head toward reconciliation. You can keep pursuing forever and never make progress, same as riding a bike with training wheels on it -- you can continue that indefinitely and progress is never made.

You need to give W space. That's taking off the training wheels and getting the bloody knees and wrists for a little while. It's going to hurt, but then it gets better! When you give W space, you let her think about you fondly, versus focusing on avoiding you and your huge set of wishes and expectations of her that she wants no part of fulfilling.

You let her wonder what you're up to, and that prompts her to approach you to find out. You need to stop telling her what you want, what you're thinking about, how you're feeling, etc. etc. Just cut all of it off and let it float. Let her wonder.

If she wants 3 feet between you and you give her 5, she can safely move 2 feet back in without making herself uncomfortable. Then, maybe she can take one more step. That's the trend you want to start.

When you start doing this, you will fear that she will NOT come back. That she will NEVER take a step toward you, so to comfort yourself you will reach out to her, thereby slapping the training wheels back on. You need to sit on your hands and gut it out, and it sux and it's really difficult, but you simply must do it.

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014

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#2240212 - 04/23/12 06:27 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Accuray]
MrBond Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/08
Posts: 10601
IMHO, you still shouldn't leave the home. She's unhappy and wants to sort out her feelings, then fine. She says she "feels" smothered by you. The point is she is the one who is making herself feel smothered. YOU'RE not doing anything to make her feel a certain way. She does it to herself.

I think it's hilarious when the WAS says they are unhappy and wants to see if they can "feel" anything for the LBS and the FIRST thing they do is to tell the LBS to leave.

It's like they're saying "I'm unhappy but I don't want to move and inconvenience myself. So you should be leaving because you're the reason I feel that way."

Makes you want to laugh sometimes.
_________________________
M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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#2240231 - 04/23/12 07:37 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: MrBond]
Accuray Offline
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Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2088
Agreed Mr. Bond, didn't mean to imply I condoned moving out. If she's uncomfortable, she should do the moving. The "give space" is emotional space, doesn't need to be physical.

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014

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#2240331 - 04/24/12 08:10 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Accuray]
Sad in WI Offline
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Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
W then started to text me before she left work to make sure I was picking up D6 and if I was going to the grocery store. Came home and took kids to the park while she went to kick boxing.

At the park W texted me and told me she hurt her back. We then went home and I helped her make a salad for work and we talked. She wants to start going on dates with me every Friday (we have not had time alone for a long time). We made plans for this Friday.

She apologized for how she treated me and regretted that we did not go to the dance together. She also told me that I did not have to leave at night, just let her go to sleep. They went to sleep at 9:00 and I went to bed in the spare bed room.

Her back was still hurting this morning so I assisted when asked and let her be. I will see how tonight goes.
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2240375 - 04/24/12 11:32 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2088
SIW,

That's a great sign. Hopefully your giving space helped her have the time to think things over and decide that dates might be a good move. If you look over your posts from a few weeks ago, you probably wouldn't have predicted that dates suggested by W would be in the cards. Celebrate your progress.

Here are my rules for going forward:

1) Don't assume that everything is now ok: W views you like a pent-up dam full of emotion. She's afraid that being nice to you is going to pull the plug and wash her away, and she doesn't want that. Continue to assume that W wants space and don't start talking about reconciliation or R discussions until she starts initiating them.

2) Don't escalate: If she says she had a nice time, don't say ILY. If she holds your hand, don't hug her. If she hugs you, don't kiss her. You can reciprocate, but don't take anything up a notch. Let her lead.

3) Expect hot and cold: Your W will "try on" being nice to you and letting herself believe that everything will be good. Then she'll catch herself, worry, and suddenly go ice cold. Don't take that personally, it's natural and part of the process. Don't comment on it, pretend you didn't notice, just roll with it.

4) Manage your expectations: It's tempting to get hopeful when you start to see positive signs. That hope can create expectations that then lead to disappointment, and that disappointment is very transparent. Expect nothing that you'll go out and be relaxed and try to have fun and that's it.

It can be hard to find neutral things to discuss. My DB coach suggested looking up "conversation starters" before the date so you'll have some interesting topics to get things going if you feel things are slowing down.

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014

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#2240377 - 04/24/12 11:37 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Accuray]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
Accuray,

Thanks for the words of encouragement and great advice. I really appreciate your insight. I would be a mess if I never found this board. Thank you all.

SIW
_________________________
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W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2240386 - 04/24/12 11:58 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Accuray]
Starsky309 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 4652
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Accuray
SIW,

That's a great sign. Hopefully your giving space helped her have the time to think things over and decide that dates might be a good move. If you look over your posts from a few weeks ago, you probably wouldn't have predicted that dates suggested by W would be in the cards. Celebrate your progress.

Here are my rules for going forward:

1) Don't assume that everything is now ok: W views you like a pent-up dam full of emotion. She's afraid that being nice to you is going to pull the plug and wash her away, and she doesn't want that. Continue to assume that W wants space and don't start talking about reconciliation or R discussions until she starts initiating them.

2) Don't escalate: If she says she had a nice time, don't say ILY. If she holds your hand, don't hug her. If she hugs you, don't kiss her. You can reciprocate, but don't take anything up a notch. Let her lead.

3) Expect hot and cold: Your W will "try on" being nice to you and letting herself believe that everything will be good. Then she'll catch herself, worry, and suddenly go ice cold. Don't take that personally, it's natural and part of the process. Don't comment on it, pretend you didn't notice, just roll with it.

4) Manage your expectations: It's tempting to get hopeful when you start to see positive signs. That hope can create expectations that then lead to disappointment, and that disappointment is very transparent. Expect nothing that you'll go out and be relaxed and try to have fun and that's it.

It can be hard to find neutral things to discuss. My DB coach suggested looking up "conversation starters" before the date so you'll have some interesting topics to get things going if you feel things are slowing down.

Accuray



Great post. whistle


Starsky
_________________________
At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)

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#2240543 - 04/24/12 10:00 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Starsky309]
Sad in WI Offline
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Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
Today I did not text, e-mail of call the W and it did not bother me. The day at work went by so fast.

W did call on her way home to ask if I could pick up D6. Her doctor gave her a presription for a muscle relaxer that she needed to pick up. She took a sample of one and sounded really out of it. I figured that tonight would be a good night to take the kids out to eat so I picked up S10 at home and then offered to pick her scrip up which she thanked me for.

While we were at home W was out of it so I let her relax and read her book. I am friendly, but let her start the conversations.

My mother is watching the kids on Friday so we can go out. I love my mom, but hate the barage of questions.

Anyways it was nice to get some work done and focus on that. Staying home again tonight and getting caught up on email etc since grandma has no internet, heat or wifi. To be honest my Grandma passed away some time ago so there was no need to turn the heat on, cable etc. It made me really appreciate my home.

Another benefit to the space is that I actually have stuff that I would like to talk about with my W.
_________________________
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D:8

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#2240687 - 04/25/12 12:53 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
W and I talked a little yesterday and she told me that her doctor was trying to contact her personally about the results of the PAP test she had.

So I have been worried about it since she has been through her share of surgeries. Her doctor was not there today so she looked at her chart and the test results are abnormally high, which could mean that her uterus may have to be removed or a complete removal of all her girl parts.

I left my office and just listened to her since there was nothing I wanted to bring up or fealt appropriate doing so. When I get home tonight I will help her since her back is still killing her. She advised that she will take a muscle relaxer tonight so I am hoping that this knocks her out a bit. Does anyone have any other suggestions?
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#2240824 - 04/25/12 09:58 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Sad in WI Offline
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Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
Tonight was tough W was crying before I got home. I picked up dinner fed the kids and sat with W. I put my arms around her and hugged her while she cried. I did not know what to say so I simply listened. Her next appointment is Monday but I asked her if she cold step this up since she is worried.

With this now I will not be staying at my grandma's house. I love this woman so much that I am going to take this journey with her. Hopefully this is nothing but if it is something I will be here. If you told me a week ago I would be here I would have said your nuts.
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2240825 - 04/25/12 10:05 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2088
Sad in WI,

That certainly complicates things, but be very careful. Continue to assume your W wants space. It will be easy to use this as an excuse to "demonstrate your love" and pursue.

There's nothing wrong with being caring and supportive, but there's a line to walk there. You might say to W "I understand this is hard for you, and I also understand that you want space. What can I do to help you through this, if anything?"

Listen to what she says, and try not to overdo it.

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014

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#2240828 - 04/25/12 10:11 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Accuray]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
Accuracy,

I have the same concerns and told myself that I would still give her space, not call, text or e-mail her. I asked what I could do and she said "be there for her.". Told her I would be. She told me that when something is going on in her life she likes to be left alone, but likes talking to me.

I will keep doing what I have been. This is something I not been through so I think the best thing to do is just listen.

SIW
_________________________
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W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2240856 - 04/25/12 11:53 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2088
Well when she says "be there for me" what does that mean? I would ask "what does it look like when I'm there for you? What am I doing and /or not doing?"

It is assuming that we know what these vague statements mean that often gets us into trouble.

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014

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#2240878 - 04/26/12 03:01 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Accuray]
isittoolate Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/11
Posts: 74
Loc: UK
Hi Shaky

just read your thread and feel a little envious! Good Luck for the future...

Accuracy - you seem to read a lot of books - any advice on which ones to read if the WAW is not willing to work on the marriage, for those of us in limbo. Is there anyway to connect to the WAW love languages without pursuing?
_________________________
Me 45 W 42
T 11 M 9
S7 S4
Bomb on 11/15/11
2nd Bomb on 3/27/12
Moved out 4/9/12
Moved back in 4/23/12
W wants to work on US 5/20/12 - Now Piecing!

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#2240879 - 04/26/12 03:11 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: isittoolate]
isittoolate Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/11
Posts: 74
Loc: UK
sorry wrong thread!!! Doh!!
_________________________
Me 45 W 42
T 11 M 9
S7 S4
Bomb on 11/15/11
2nd Bomb on 3/27/12
Moved out 4/9/12
Moved back in 4/23/12
W wants to work on US 5/20/12 - Now Piecing!

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#2240880 - 04/26/12 03:40 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: isittoolate]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
Accuracy,

You are a mind reader b/c I did ask her this question. In her eyes this means that I will stop doing whatever it is to take a call and listen to her. In person this means that I will give her my undivided attention. Both of which I normally try to do.

SIW
_________________________
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W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2240943 - 04/26/12 11:34 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
This morning was ok, made W laugh a few times and despite what's going on she is looking forward to going out Friday Night. I asked that she bump up her next appointment from Monday to as early as today.

She has an appointment for a massage this afternoon after work so I hope that this will relax her a little. She asked for a hug and I gave it. Again just mostly listening to her. My fingers are crossed.
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2240952 - 04/26/12 12:17 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
adinva Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 2762
Loc: VA
great!
_________________________
Adinva 48 H48
T22 M19 S16 S14
6/15/11 IDLY
6/11-12/12 in-home sep
12/16/12 H moved out
Nothing signed yet
____
Be the change you want to see in the world (Gandhi)

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#2241102 - 04/26/12 11:25 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: adinva]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
W texted me this morning and told me that she had her test moved up to 3:30 this afternoon. I have been nervous about this since Tuesday. I had a court hearing in person and was not home until 4:00. She was not going to be home until after 6:00 since she was going for a massage. I admit I was nervous about it and wanted her to call ASAP.

I was getting anxious and did not want to bother her so I took the kids to the park and came home an hour after she came home. She took a muscle relaxer for her back and was pretty out of it by the time we got home.

She told me that the cells were precancerous and that she could either take a pill for it or that she would have to have a hysterectomy. She would have the biopsy results shortly.

I left it at that, got the kids ready for bed and then headed back to the office. She needed a few things from the store and I also bought a card telling her to hang in there. I put the card in her work pack back.

I am looking forward to spending some alone time with her on Friday Night. We never have a problem talking, but this health scare has thrown me for a loop. I was going to approach the "date" with no heavy R/M talk, I think I will throw in health talk as well.
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2241117 - 04/27/12 12:22 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2088
Keep it light and topical. See if she wants to see a comedy show, that can really lighten things up
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014

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#2241119 - 04/27/12 12:25 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Accuray]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
Accuray,

I printed the four rules going forward that you posted and am now memorizing. Have to be good about the hot/cold.

I really am trying to treat this as a "first" date. On a first date I would rarely talk and was not concerned about the future. In my eyes this is the first date with the new SIW, so I guess I am not that crazy right?

SIW
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2241153 - 04/27/12 07:51 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2088
Well first dates do carry expectations and anticipation, if you feel you have that under control, that's where you need to be. Safer than first date is to treat it like dinner with a coworker on a business trip. You're going to be friendly and pleasant but there are no expectations and no risk of encroaching on her space. Comedy Club is a good opener because laughing together is good and afterwards you can talk about the show.

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014

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#2241287 - 04/27/12 05:24 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
W is anxiously awaiting her biopsy results so if she does not get them today dinner could be interesting. Accuray, I will suggest a comedy club among a few other things after dinner.

My mom is taking the kids overnight so at a minimum W will get a decent nights sleep and a quiet morning.
_________________________
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W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2241354 - 04/28/12 02:45 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
Dinner was very nice. We were there for over three hours just talking and having a good time. Although I had planned to go out afterwards both of us were very tired so we went home. Alot of talking about our first date and how we were both lucky to be with each other.

Both of us agreed that it had been too long since we have gone out and that we need to do this more. We already have planned on going out in two weeks.

Talk was all over the place, but did not feel forced or contrived. Her health did come up and I told her that I am here for her. No biopsy test results yet, but she should have them by Monday.

And with the kids not being home at least my W can sleep in without being woken up. Overall a very nice time and kid free.
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2241404 - 04/28/12 11:05 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
isittoolate Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/11
Posts: 74
Loc: UK
tiny steps....small changes
_________________________
Me 45 W 42
T 11 M 9
S7 S4
Bomb on 11/15/11
2nd Bomb on 3/27/12
Moved out 4/9/12
Moved back in 4/23/12
W wants to work on US 5/20/12 - Now Piecing!

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#2241585 - 04/29/12 01:53 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: isittoolate]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
I had an awesome time with the W on Friday, but knew that this weekend would be hard since she is still waiting on her biopsy results. She is a nervous wreck, but I have been giving her space. Only talked about her health once. She told me that her mom instilled in her that you could not rely on anyone and that when she is going through problems that is how she handles them. This would explain her lone wolf attitude and need for space.

On Saturday she relaxed and had to take D6 to a birthday party and then made a nice dinner since my Sil was coming over with her D. We then just watched TV while the kids played.

On Sunday I took the kids so that she could go for a walk and have some quiet time. She is tired and I am beat.

With this health scare my focus is on my W's health. I continue to take things day by day.
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2241862 - 04/30/12 07:59 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
Awesome news, biopsy did not show cancerous cells. W was relieved and a weight was taken off of my shoulders.

The mood in the house has been lifted. I may get SOS sleep tonight.
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2241866 - 04/30/12 08:08 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
adinva Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 2762
Loc: VA
Yay! smile
_________________________
Adinva 48 H48
T22 M19 S16 S14
6/15/11 IDLY
6/11-12/12 in-home sep
12/16/12 H moved out
Nothing signed yet
____
Be the change you want to see in the world (Gandhi)

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#2242233 - 05/02/12 01:42 AM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: adinva]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
I have breathed a sigh of relief that my W is ok. She has another test in four months.

W brought up our R and is still confused and does not know where we are heading. I listened and did not add much since I really did not know what to say. I know that when I say anything or put the slightest pressure on her she pulls back.

I know that we it has been only two months since W dropped the bomb and while my relationship with the kids has improved immensely my R with the W has been a seriies of backwards and forwards steps. I am not trying to get too high on good days or too low on bad days.

Today for instance I was filled with bad thoughts (I.e. the D is imminent, W will move out) when there was nothing going on. W sees that I am anxious and then she gets irritated.

I don't have patience and then this gets compounded with my fixer mentality. I have been doing great with the space and haven't initiated email, text, or phone calls for over a week. She calls everyday on her way home and I have to tell myself not to get overly excited to hear from her.

I brought up going on a date on Friday but W said she will have to see. Iam worried that my nerves will get the better of me and screw this situation up.
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2242362 - 05/02/12 01:36 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2088
"I know that when I say anything or put the slightest pressure on her she pulls back."

^^^^^^^^ Great insight. Let her know you're available and would be happy to go on dates, then let her schedule them.

She's the captain, you are the co-pilot right now. If you keep trying to grab the controls you will be fired!

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014

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#2242369 - 05/02/12 02:17 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Accuray]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
Accuray,

I need to remember this and also practice "WAIT" but sometimes my nerves get the better of me. I need to be patient, I need to give her space and I need to keep my emotions in check. Take a deep breath SIW.

SIW
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2242395 - 05/02/12 04:47 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
Not getting much work done today, but have re-read my posts and got caught up with other posts as well. From what I gleam from my sitch and others is that our WAS can and do change on a dime and talk out of both sides of their mouths.

I also read Michelles articles on the site and what got my eye had to do with the love quiz and question number 5 "People Just Fall Out of Love." That is one thing that resonates with my W, for her its all or nothing. While Michelle says that this is one of the funniest things she has ever heard. She is stressing that couples need to spend time together. I am trying to do this, but have to understand that she is the captain of the date ship right now. I also looked at our first scrap book and remembered what we did when we first met and how I approached/treated her when we were first getting to know one another.

W has told me that one of the things that hurt her the most was the feeling that I was not there for her. When this came up I listened and validated. When she was nervous about her health I told her I was here and was helping her before she had to ask.

I am trying to look at her as a roommate and treat her accordingly because I think being detached from her would back fire since I was "detached" for a good period of time in our marruiage.

I also made a list of what "good" things occurred in our marriage and was on page 5 when I stopped writing. I think that when I start to get sad I need to look at this list rather than letting my bad thoughts take over.

I threw out the idea of going on another date on Friday. Sorry to post so much and often.
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2242406 - 05/02/12 05:21 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2088
Originally Posted By: SIW
I am trying to look at her as a roommate and treat her accordingly because I think being detached from her would back fire since I was "detached" for a good period of time in our marriage.


Usually the wrong conclusion -- it's a timing problem. She needed you to be engaged with her THEN. You can't make up for that by pursuing her NOW. Pursuing her now will often just make her angrier, because if you can do it so easily now, why did you put her through so much hell then?

It's a fine line to walk, you need to demonstrate that you're willing and capable to engage, but you can't demonstrate that through pursuit. You have to wait for opportunities that SHE provides to demonstrate your 180's -- you can't create them.

SIW, generally when the bomb drops WAS (in their mind) is done. They think they know all there is to know about you, what you're capable of, and how you're going to act, and they've decided they are better off without you. Pursuing them is just trying to pull them back into a cold pool after they've decided to get out and dry off. You can't convince them that's going to be fun.

That's why detach DOES work -- it makes them reconsider what they think they know. It makes them wonder WHY you're able to detach. Your GAL and "act as if" intrigues them. If you're happy, they want to share in that happiness. If you demonstrate good parenting, they want to parent with you.

The WAS needs to see a future with you as a NEW destination, not a return to an old one. Pursuit feels, to them, like you are trying to manipulate, con, convince them BACK to where you were before. DETACH puts an opportunity before them to re-engage with you because it's something that THEY want to do, not something you're begging them to do.

DETACH takes all kinds of pressure off of them. They no longer need to concern themselves with your fragile emotions. They can be free to live their life and make their own decisions.

You will find no one on this board who reconciled through pursuit -- not one example. You will find cases where people went dark, detached, started living their own life, and WAS came back. Usually not on their timetable, and usually after a longer period of time than they would have expected. The less you care if they come back, the easier it is for them to return, because it puts you on equal footing.

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014

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#2242407 - 05/02/12 05:29 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Accuray]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
Accuray,

I can detach when we are not together (no emails, texts or calls). It is harder when we are together, but at the same time I think this could work. For instance when I see her reading her I-Pad I head in the other direction and do my own thing. I guess I equate DETACH with AVOIDANCE, but they are not the same from what I have read and this is what I have trouble with. When she goes to Kick Boxing after work it is a quick hi/bye and then I am doing some GAL or spending time with the kids.

It seems like it is more of an emotional thing, like ok I am here for you, but will hold my cards to the vest when it comes to my feelings etc. I need to look at older posts here to get this down path b/c it is the one thing I have trouble understanding. Thanks for your kind words.

SIW
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2242430 - 05/02/12 07:53 PM Re: I don't love you anymore but we can be friends 3 [Re: Sad in WI]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2088
SIW,

Yes, it is important to understand the difference between DETACH and AVOID. "Detach" is being able to maintain your self-esteem regardless of their reaction to you. "Detach" is measuring yourself by your own actions, not what W does or does not do or say. i.e. you know you are loveable regardless of whether W says she loves you or not.

You can still communicate and be detached. You can still smile, laugh and share. The difference is, you have no expectations of W, and however she reacts isn't going to change how you feel about yourself, and she knows that.

You can share your feelings, but if she condemns you for how you feel, you don't care. Now that's a fine line because if you're feeling badly BECAUSE of her, then sharing that would betray a lack of detachment.

Here's an example -- you want to go to a restaurant for dinner:

"W, will you go to X restaurant with me for dinner?" If she doesn't go, you don't go. NOT detached.

"W, I'm going to dinner at X restaurant. I'm leaving in 20 minutes or so. If you want to go I'll see you outside."

The implication there is that YOU are going to go no matter what. If W chooses to join you great, and if not, you're still going out.

See the difference? In the second case, your actions do not depend on her. She can share with you or not, and either way she hasn't ruined your plans. That gives her the freedom to choose with no consequence of guilt for making the choice you don't like.

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014

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