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#2238169 - 04/16/12 01:00 PM Re: Turn the page [Re: labug]
ces67 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 1024
Hi all. Well, I finally took the plunge and spoke to my W about a few of the issues that have been bothering me. I’ve tried to just do bullet points of the topics but this is still really long…

MY POINTS:
Wish she wasn’t going on another trip
Explained my purpose for going to Al Anon was to deal with my bitterness & anger towards her.
Explained that my assumption on her job was to help our family’s finances and it isn’t happening.
Told her the money was an irritation but not the true cause of my bitterness
Explained that each time she went away, I dealt with my own feelings of being discarded and abandoned by her.
Explained my view of how we use to be connected so her travels were not an issue as we continued to talk. Explained how that is all gone and there is no security left in our R for me and so the feelings of abandonment have taken the place of security.
Explained with all this, I still have concerns about her relationship with OM.
I pointed out the t-shirt that went away when OMs wife was in town
I indicated the picture of OM in the collage frame
I told her about the picture of her and OM on the computer

W RESPONSES:
W said her friend, not OM, gave her the t-shirt
W said she does not remember putting the t-shirt away while her friend was in town
W said our D10 picked out the picture for the frame because it had her and some of her friends in the picture
W said the picture on the computer was the same one I had found printed off last October and she didn’t know it was still on there. She deleted it.

I mentioned she had explained her R with OM before as an infatuation, but that it appeared to be more 2-way. W said they had only ever flirted and nothing happened and there is nothing going on between them at all.

W TALKED ABOUT THE FOLLOWING:
W is still made at me for trying to work things out now rather than sooner.
W said she had tried to tell me her struggles for a long time.
W said I checked out after the kids were born and that we’ve not been a team for 13 years.
W said I only worry about money
W said she hates it in our new home
W said I control all aspects of her life (supporting her feeling of being “trapped”)
W also said she was getting daily “marriage” related e-mails and has been reading them but when I come home each day she can’t bring herself to try.

MY OTHER COMMENTS:
Said I was sorry that she didn’t see us as a team but I don’t remember it that way completely
Said the kids were not distant from me and knew that I loved them very much.
I acknowledged that she has tried to tell me her feelings and that in many ways I did withdraw from her and possibly the kids. I confessed that this was wrong of me completely, and that I didn’t know how to have the conversations we needed to have.
Explained that I felt like a failure as many of the interactions from her indicated that I couldn’t get anything right and so why keep trying…
I agreed that the money issues stress me out and that I’m suppose to provide for my family and I’ve let us get into too much debt.
Reminded W that she is the one who told me that she wanted me to have a job I believed in and felt good about and that she had wanted to move away so I thought I had her support when we moved to our new home.
W said she thought she could do it or “bury her own needs again and pretend”.
I responded that no one had asked her to lie or pretend about what she felt.
I told W that I have offered multiple times to try and work together on our finances and other things but she has refused.
I mentioned how I have not interferred in her travels at all and that I have worked to give her space to do what she wanted with whom she wanted.

The conversation started wrapping up at this point. I said we were both miserable and we needed to do something different. W asked what it was that I wanted. I said again that I wanted to work together. I wanted to go back to counseling and find a way to live better with each other. I commented on the fact that we are both getting marriage e-mails and reading stuff but not talking or dealing with each other so it’s not working.

We left it at that. No idea what, if anything, will come of the conversation. In some ways I feel better to at least have had a conversation. In other ways, nothing has changed. I do feel somewhat better about what W’s R is with OM and how her friendship with OM’s wife supports what she told me last night.

My biggest frustration goes back to my own desires or expectations. It seems my W refuses to see her part in our issues. It feels all blame is placed on my shoulders and until circumstances fall into her picture of what life should be like, she will not be happy or give our M a chance. This is where I need to let go somehow.

Another point of the conversation that came up has to do with my W’s view of my job and the difference of how I acted at home. But this is more than enough for now so I’ll add those comments in later. Off to my day. Thanks for reading…
_________________________
Me:45, W:44
S:15, D:12
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
2 attempts at MC-stopped 09/13
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms

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#2238184 - 04/16/12 01:51 PM Re: Turn the page [Re: ces67]
sayitaintso Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/11
Posts: 951
I'm glad you were able to have this talk C, I could feel the need building inside of you and it seems that you handled it well.

You were able to obtain some valuable information so I would advise you to process what she has said, validate it in your own right, and see if their are things that you can work on that will improve you as a person and hopefully your m as a by product.

I would also allow her to process your talk and see if she comes to you w/ any follow up. Not sure how long you are comfortable waiting? I would suggest trying to end any future talks with some sort of next step, no matter how small. Ex: I appreciate you sharing your feelings w/ me and I'm glad we are able to communicate about these things. How about we take a few days to process what was said and how we feel and touch base Friday?
_________________________
Me- 34 W-33
S15 S10 S6
Married- 11 Together- 18
Bomb- 6-2011
WAW moves out- 8-2011

"Nothing in the Universe can stop you from letting go and starting over at anytime"- Guy Finley

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#2238186 - 04/16/12 01:52 PM Re: Turn the page [Re: ces67]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 8771
Loc: Sonoran Desert
That's a lot!

Maybe you need a f/u plan. Don't allow this to drop.

But I might pick one topic for the next discussion.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M35 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2238403 - 04/17/12 12:36 AM Re: Turn the page [Re: labug]
ces67 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 1024
Thanks SAIS and Bug. This is actually a repeat of things she has already told me. I have been working on these things and in the past she has even acknowledged it but it still makes her mad.

I have definitely learned how my withdrawal has impacted my w and our M. I have confessed this and actively worked on it. The part that frustrates me and I need to let go of is that my W will not see how she contributed. My withdrawal, while wrong, was a response to the criticism and judgement I received so often. I could not get things right or do them well enough to please my W. after so many years, I just pulled back to avoid as a defense. I also see where the pattern came from. I used it growing up to avoid my mom's anger and in school to avoid being bullied. Obviously this didn't work in my M but the behaviors had been set without me realizing it.

A few other points my w made:
Said I was always seen as so great and capable at work and was frustrated at how I was not that way at home.
W said now everyone sees our issues as her fault instead of seeing how I contributed to our issues
W said she has lost friends because they can't handle who she has become.

For these points I just listened but after thinking it over here are my thoughts.
I was good at work because I was respected and given positive encouragement for what I could do. At home my failures and mistakes were highlighted.
I did tell my W that I have told my family that I have contributed to our issues and will continue to own my part.
As far as friends, W cannot see how she treated her friends who tried help her and that she pushed them away with her behaviors. Her closest friend even confided in me how my W had made fun of her in the presence of her new friends saying how she actually still liked her husband.

Obviously I am still a little irritated but just venting here. Interactions with W have been no different this evening. In the past W has spent the day in bed after a discussion like last night. Maybe the fact that she did not do that today is a sign I handled myself better??

We should have an opportunity to follow up on some of our discussion when the tax refund comes in. We shall see.
_________________________
Me:45, W:44
S:15, D:12
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
2 attempts at MC-stopped 09/13
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms

Top
#2238408 - 04/17/12 12:56 AM Re: Turn the page [Re: ces67]
Rick1963 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 2536
Loc: Piney Land
Ces I sound a bit like your W and u a bit like my W. Mach asked this of me a few months back. Are u an introvert or extrovert? Is your W an introvert or extrovert? I have what he wrote to me on my work pc. Will post it tomorrow if interested remind me k buddy.
_________________________
M 51
W 50
D 17
Separated 6/22/11 moved out 11/12
Together 26 yrs
Married 16
W Filed for D 7/21/11
Served 9/6/11
D final 8/28/12

“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”

John Wooden






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#2238412 - 04/17/12 01:06 AM Re: Turn the page [Re: Rick1963]
ces67 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 1024
Thanks Rick, I am an introvert. My W use to be an introvert but says that she became that way due to the abusive home she grew up in. I would say she is more extroverted now. She always wants to be with people, well certain people anyway. It's at the point now that it's kind of overkill.

Our MC even said she is acting like a 20-something who is trying to stake their own personality, just 20 years later than normal
_________________________
Me:45, W:44
S:15, D:12
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
2 attempts at MC-stopped 09/13
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms

Top
#2238421 - 04/17/12 01:49 AM Re: Turn the page [Re: ces67]
Rick1963 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 2536
Loc: Piney Land
I have to post what I got for u. It may help you understand things a bit better. So u shut down when she got loud or criticized? My W did the same. When u did did she get angry and demanded an answer? Sorry just questions.
_________________________
M 51
W 50
D 17
Separated 6/22/11 moved out 11/12
Together 26 yrs
Married 16
W Filed for D 7/21/11
Served 9/6/11
D final 8/28/12

“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”

John Wooden






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#2238424 - 04/17/12 02:05 AM Re: Turn the page [Re: Rick1963]
ces67 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 1024
It was a cycle I see now. She would complain, criticize and I would pull away. This would just upset her as well which would make me want to pull away more. No idea who started the cycle but we both fed it.
_________________________
Me:45, W:44
S:15, D:12
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
2 attempts at MC-stopped 09/13
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms

Top
#2238431 - 04/17/12 02:24 AM Re: Turn the page [Re: ces67]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Just a couplefew things, CES...

First, glad you had the conversation... sounded good...

Now that you've put your stuff out there, are you ready to let it go? I mean forever and for good?

I found the interaction quite interesting...

It read like there were some typical mars / venus patterns, going on there...

You couldn't make her happy, so you withdrew... which made her more unhappy, so you withdrew further... focused on your work to feel significant...

OTOH, your W just wanted you to be there for you... to sit and listen to her and validate her and help her feel better about herself... to really connect... but since you saw it as complaints, you withdrew... even though while the complaints were directed at you and stung... they were just a way for her to vent... and maybe all she was saying was, "please pay attention to me... show me you want to be with me by not running away..." but you did... so she lost that connection with you... and therefore stopped loving you...

Does this sound reasonably accurate?

If so...

what might you do different...?

Cause her question about what you wanted... sounded to me like she was trying to connect with you... a test if you will... to see that you still at least SAY you want to be with her... and maybe, just maybe... that will be followed up with actions...

and when you show those actions and she tells you that it is too little, or too late... that she's just still testing you to see if you will just run away again...


Just thinking out loud about your sitch...

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#2238461 - 04/17/12 03:47 AM Re: Turn the page [Re: ~ kd ~]
ces67 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 1024
KD, I came to the same conclusion and with some other books recommendedby my new IC, I was able to get a more clear picture of this pattern. now I just need to change more behaviors. This recognition is what sparked me to initiate the conversation in the first place.

I think my basic next steps are to find some armor plated skin, make conversation and take the hits as they come...in my head I know her comments don't define me but it still hurts. She is actively shutting me out and my defense mechanisms are telling me to abort. I also know this is what got me to this point ( along with some negative issues from my W that I will no longer own as my own).

One thing my W also said during our conversation is. "I'm still here" . At the time I shrugged it off internally with frustration that she exists in the same house but that's it. She is not here with me. Back to the patience thing. Consistency is what I will continue to bring...( with some setbacks because I am human after all)
_________________________
Me:45, W:44
S:15, D:12
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
2 attempts at MC-stopped 09/13
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms

Top
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