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#2238463 - 04/17/12 04:01 AM Re: Turn the page [Re: ces67]
2thepoint Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1692
Hey CES! Interesting to read about your conversation with your W. Hopefully it is a step towards improved communication between the two of you. It is good to see you building your confidence which I think was necessary for you to find a way out of the limbo you are in.

What do you make of the "I'm still here" comment?
_________________________
Me48 W50 S15 S11
M20 T23
Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11

It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.

Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife

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#2238466 - 04/17/12 04:03 AM Re: Turn the page [Re: ces67]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Yes, good stuff...

If you are detached enough... and that too will become better with practice, so get to practising... wink

then do what works... and it is likely that some of the stuff that you will be doing will be 180s... if you weren't manning up, then that would be a 180... if you weren't "there for her", then it's a 180...

Do... observe... adjust... do...

Make sure you've got your nut guard on... lol...

I agree and it would seem to me that her saying she's "still here" does appear to be a test... I don't think you need to be in LRT, considering the conversation and some of her comments...

I'll be interested in hearing what the results are...

so, no expectations... and I can only say that what ever you do... if it works... be prepared to keep doing it and make it part of who you are... give to her because you want to... not because you will always, or ever, get back...

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#2238621 - 04/17/12 05:48 PM Re: Turn the page [Re: ~ kd ~]
ces67 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 1024
My skin is certainly thicker than it use to be. At the beginning of our conversation, I caught my voice wavering just a bit and then said a quiet prayer and pulled it together to stay calm & confident.

Yeah, LRT is not where we're at. She is here, as she said. She is engaged with the kids, which is good. The main piece now is how to rebuild trust. That will come from my consistent actions and doing what I think is best for our M and our family regardless of how she reacts.

My balancing act now is around creating a safe place for her to interact with me while managing boundaries so her irresponsible behavior does not impact the family.
_________________________
Me:45, W:44
S:15, D:12
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
2 attempts at MC-stopped 09/13
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms

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#2238816 - 04/18/12 12:41 PM Re: Turn the page [Re: 2thepoint]
ces67 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 1024
What do you make of the "I'm still here" comment?

Hey 2TP, in regard to the above question, I'm treading lightly on the "mind-reading" but here's how I take it:
-She is still present (physically) in our home.
-She still wears her wedding rings
-She is still engaged and active with the kids
-And I think this is all she's willing to offer at this point.

Also, here is what I see implied by her behaviors:
-She will not engage in significant conversation with me
-She will not work to heal our M
-She will continue live a separate life that excludes me
-She will continue to place her friendships above our M.

And these are all on her. I have no control over this. On Sunday night she asked what I wanted and I told her clearly. "I want us to work on our M. I want us to go back to counseling". I have no expectations that she will agree to any of this. But I said what I wanted.

W leaves in the morning for another trip. Will be gone about 12 days. I will LOVE the time with my kids without the stress of our sitch. We'll have fun.
_________________________
Me:45, W:44
S:15, D:12
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
2 attempts at MC-stopped 09/13
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms

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#2238824 - 04/18/12 01:16 PM Re: Turn the page [Re: ces67]
2thepoint Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1692
Hey CES - from my interpretation of her comment, I think you've got it about right. She seems to be saying, "look, I've not walked out on the family so don't look a gift horse in the mouth." It is a selfish position to be sure.

So you told her what you wanted, but I don't recall, did you ask her what she wanted?

Quote:
A few other points my w made:
Said I was always seen as so great and capable at work and was frustrated at how I was not that way at home.
W said now everyone sees our issues as her fault instead of seeing how I contributed to our issues
W said she has lost friends because they can't handle who she has become.


In this exchange ^^^ did you try to validate her comments? Perhaps by saying something like, "Wife I can see how that can be frustrating if you perceive me not being as capable at home as I am at work. Tell me more about that." Or, "I can only imagine what it is like to lose friends. It must make you feel lonely."

I know it can't feel good for you to have your W at home and present in all matters except the M. But, where ever there is a possibility to create additional dialogue, you should probably try to take advantage of it.

I seem to remember you saying some time back that you and your W/family never went on vacations. Do I have that right? If so, have you thought about maybe planning a summer vacation with your W and the kids? That would be a great way of bringing the family together connecting while doing something fun and memorable.

Just a thought.
_________________________
Me48 W50 S15 S11
M20 T23
Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11

It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.

Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife

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#2238826 - 04/18/12 01:24 PM Re: Turn the page [Re: 2thepoint]
Rick1963 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 2549
Loc: Piney Land
Is this what you were asking for Ces?


Ahhh....

Since we have been talking about communication styles, and triggers for you that leave you in a reactive state ( and not very good at it BTW )

My x was an extrovert, very outgoing ( Italian, you know what I mean ). Over the years, I had patterned myself to dealing with myself in terms of communicating with her. I am somewhat an introvert . So the only way I really ever expressed myself, or interpreted myself in the relationship, was what I knew.

I dealt with her like she was an introvert, because that is the way I communicated. I didn't understand the difference in the two. Hell, maybe I would go as far as saying that I didn't know there was a different way.

When we would talk, HER answers were right there. I missed a LOT of them though, because I expected her to communicate with me on my terms. That led to a LOT of unfulfilled conversations from me. It led to frustrations because it was not the way I communicated. My frustration would lead to anger, much the same way you have described.

My partner now, is an introvert. And what I learned (the hard way ) , was the difference between the two communications styles. It wasn't until I met her, that it even occurred to me.

I would ask a question on my time, and expect an answer on my time.

What I learned was, that with communication with an introvert. (especially if you are an extrovert). We can ask questions on our time, although the answers come on their time. Sometimes I wait for days for an answer.

What I was doing with her was....I was asking these questions, and she would feel "pushed" for an answer, because she wasn't ready. And in time, she would feel over run, because the questions would stack up in her brain. One after another, before she could answer the first one....

This also led to some very frustrating times, until I learned to ask one thing...then wait for the answer. I pour a tall glass of STFU, until her answers come to her.

What this did, was allow me to step back, and relieve a lot of frustration on my end, because I was eliminating my expectations.

I removed MY triggers for frustration turning towards anger at her....by simply recognizing and removing those expectations.



Just something to think about.....
_________________________
M 51
W 50
D 17
Separated 6/22/11 moved out 11/12
Together 26 yrs
Married 16
W Filed for D 7/21/11
Served 9/6/11
D final 8/28/12

“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”

John Wooden






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#2238842 - 04/18/12 02:40 PM Re: Turn the page [Re: Rick1963]
ces67 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 1024
2TP - I did not validate at that time in the conversation but will use that as an opportunity to create more dialogue. I have a tendancy to want to express why I did something or acted a certain way and I need to let that go and just validate how it made her feel.

I don't think the vacation comment was me. W is planning another extended trip away this summer with the kids. I'm debating on if I will join them for any of this. I do need to go spend time with my family who live in the same area. I just do not want to have to spend any time with my W's friends up there.

Rick - Thanks. I'll look over this. Not sure how our communciation styles are same/different at this point. In many ways, my W is extroverted more now than ever but also, I see her own tendancy to withdraw from conflict as well. So both of us doing that has NOT been helpful.

I see how my pattern of response can be frustrating for my W by what you posted. It takes me a while to process my feelings and reaction so I may have to come back to her a day or 2 later to explain or share something because it takes me that long to figure it out. W always seems ready at any moment to state her point, or argue and issue and it throws me off to where I don't know how to respond.
_________________________
Me:45, W:44
S:15, D:12
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
2 attempts at MC-stopped 09/13
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms

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#2238860 - 04/18/12 03:35 PM Re: Turn the page [Re: ces67]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 8918
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Sounds like H and I ces! That info may be really helpful to you. I always saw it as H shutting down or not wanting to share.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2238878 - 04/18/12 04:23 PM Re: Turn the page [Re: labug]
Rick1963 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 2549
Loc: Piney Land
Ces that is what happened to us many times. I would ask W a question and I don't mean a life or death question but what color are we painting the kitchen. I would get a blank stare and a dunno or nothing. Really drove me nuts wished I had known the above.
_________________________
M 51
W 50
D 17
Separated 6/22/11 moved out 11/12
Together 26 yrs
Married 16
W Filed for D 7/21/11
Served 9/6/11
D final 8/28/12

“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”

John Wooden






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#2238991 - 04/19/12 12:07 AM Re: Turn the page [Re: Rick1963]
AlwaysTrying Offline
Member

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 243
Ces, just caught up on your sitch. I'm so happy you finally opened the flood gates and let some of that pressure out.

I pray that you have blown the doors open for communication to start flowing in your household.

"I'm still here." Take advantage of that.
_________________________
- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room

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