Page 2 of 11 < 1 2 3 4 ... 10 11 >
Topic Options
#2232786 - 03/23/12 03:15 AM Re: DBing while settling finances [Re: needgrace]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10536
Loc: west coast
Dear NG,
I'm sorry you are here, but you are in the best place for a lousy reason.

You can learn a lot about yourself here...it's the one upside to this situation...becoming the best YOU that you can be.

BTW, I'm very direct and short of time atm. So I'll cut to the chase...

Originally Posted By: needgrace
Hi Mr. Bond,
Thank you for your note. We are both women, so I don't think there is another man. smile There may be another woman, I am not sure. In February, when she wanted to work on our M and go to MC, she stopped after a few weeks because she had gone out to dinner with a friend and had some feelings for her.

that ^^ is significant to me. Flesh that out please. Really.... what's the story?


I am writing here tonight instead of sending her an angry, hurt note.


smart!


I got an email today with a list of statues and art pieces she wants to take with her. Perhaps it is unfair of me, but it feels like I have already been stripped of so much in this process (our marriage, the dreams of our future, the love of my life) that I feel so hurt when I get these requests for things... I know they are just things and I am not even sure why it hurts so badly. Maybe because those things are important enough to go with her while I am just left behind..

the two issues ( the marriage and the things) are separate. She certainly sees them as separate and you probably should too, b/c I fear you are taking this too lightly b/c you are afraid of upsetting her more.

What will she do if you upset her, leave? OH wait, she already is leaving.

Maybe standing up for yourself will be attractive to her, (at least it would be new behavior, right?) But if it's not, you are not hurting yourself...
And you need to be less predictable with her now.

I think you'd be wise to protect yourself. What does your lawyer say? If you have not talked to one or hired one, do so asap
...



I guess I am in the LRT stage and I know that I should not let her see how much this all hurts. Thank you DBers for letting me vent here.

As far as your other question, Mr Bond, (James?), there have been a long list along the way. I think the primary was that I was distant recently.

this^^^ is too vague for me to wrap my brain around or to advise as to how to correct...can't say how to do a 180 b/c I don't know what you mean. Be specific please.


I am self-employed and was trying to build up my business by working for three contractors for awhile. I thought I was doing the right thing for our future. She was busy too after a promotion but I guess she felt like I was too distant.



you seem to be explaining yourself here...did you neglect or ignore her or not? DIG DEEPER. It's okay to have screwed up. Most of us have.

What do you think her "love language" is and what is yours?


Also, I know I would tend to shut down when we would argue.


meaning what? You'd walk away? Ignore her? Be silent? What? How did you resolve conflicts? How were her feelings handled by you?


I have been working on myself since this started and wish I had the chance to do things differently but she says that she has no feelings for me and is not willing to work on trying to get them back.


what do you mean by "working on" yourself? You said her list of complaints was long...

but all I see are two vague ones that you sort of immediately explain/defend, so...do you think they were flaws or traits you want to work on or not?

Were you "right" to be the way you are? Is that what matters to you most now?

IOW, do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy? Do YOU want to change YOU?

You are the only one posting here so you are the only one we can help.

We/You have no control over her. But you CAN control you and that can change a marriage.

When one person changes in a 2 person r, the r itself does change.

also, why'd you two move to where you are now anyhow? Did she like her job? And do you like yours? You sound really busy...are you happy with it?

Any drinking, kids, prior m's, substance abuse or tempers flaring? Any repeated complaints about anything?

What were her most consistent complaints? Do you think there is ANY validity to them?

If so, let's get to work. You want to change you so you can become a woman only a fool would leave.

If she still leaves, then maybe she's a fool. But you'll still be better off. So don't keep asking yourself if you should bother changing or working on yourself

b/c she might still go. That means the changes are just 'tactics" to get her back, as opposed to genuine self improvement.

Don't blow this chance to become the best you possible. It makes the pain of this ordeal, sorta worth it.

And if you miss out on the chance for change/growth, then you miss out on so much of life.

This is your future so dig deep...

And keep posting.

Me: 51 W: 41
T: 10 M: 7
ILYBINILWY: 7/11
Moved out: 10/11
Moved back in: 11/11 moved out again and asked for divorce 7 days later
Wants to work on things: 1/12
She decides to move across country: 2/12
Move date scheduled for April 12.

_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

Top
#2232973 - 03/24/12 12:32 AM Re: DBing while settling finances [Re: 25yearsmlc]
needgrace Offline
Member

Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 1344
Thank you, 25yearrsmlc. I like your directness and I want to use this insane amount of pain for something positive.

Let's see.. is there another woman? about 2 weeks after W came over and stated that she wanted to go to MC with me and that she was "confident" that we could work things out, she went to dinner with a mutual friend. She told me later that week that she was surprised that she started having feelings that night for the friend, that this proved that she could not get her feelings back for me and that she "did not have any more left" to work on things with me. I do not know if she has pursued that relationship since then.

I have a lawyer and since I had the house prior to the M, the market decline and remodel loans there is not much there for her. She had agreed to settlement verbally last week and then started changing her mind.

I'll be honest, I am still confused as to what I did or didn't do based on her complaints: I was too distant, needy, controlling, needed botox, did not take care of myself, anxious, jealous, rejecting... Sometimes I agree with all of them, at least to a degree. I think a big factor was the jealousy thing. I had several times in our relationship asked her (she felt accused) about having feelings for other women.

I had not done this for a few years, but then last spring, I asked her about an ex of hers from Texas (where she is moving.) We had been friends with the ex and her partner of 12 years. The ex started talking to my W about how unhappy she was in her relationship. That seemed to cross boundaries to me and and combined with other things (the ex was coming here on business a lot and started emailing my W instead of both of us about getting together) I got suspicious. I asked my W last spring if she had feelings for the ex and she got very angry with me for asking. To be honest, all the previous times I asked were very far fetched and my W felt like I did not trust her.

Honestly, we did not argue much at all and I think now that was one of the problems. I was very avoidant of conflict and I can see now how I need to work on that. When I was little, my mom would get very irrational and angry and I never liked it. With my W, I would get flooded and shut down or give in. I was not good at hearing her feelings.

I was also jealous of the time she spent at work because she was working 60 - 70 hours a week and I did not listen well to her when she would talk about work. I wanted to talk about other things and should have been more caring.

i have been going through menopause and am not sure if I did not realize too how it was affecting me and us.

I tend to shut down when I am stressed too so I know I was not communicative and can understand how she felt disconnected. I felt her get critical a few moths before the bomb but she seemed critical of everyone, not just me so I did not think it was about us.

I so wish I could do so many things over but I can't. I have apologized and taken responsibility but she was already so angry.

I have not read love languages but will do so....

thank you, 25yearsmlc, I want to dig deep.

Me: 51 W: 41
T: 10 M: 7
ILYBINILWY: 7/11
Moved out: 10/11
Moved back in: 11/11 moved out again and asked for divorce 7 days later
Wants to work on things: 1/12
She decides to move across country: 2/12
Move date scheduled for April 12.
_________________________
Me(f): 51 W: 41
DP:8 M:3 T:10
"W not happy" 7/11
D final: 8/13

Top
#2233036 - 03/24/12 12:24 PM Re: DBing while settling finances [Re: needgrace]
needgrace Offline
Member

Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 1344
I feel horrible. I totally threw all my good DBing out the door.

I got upset via email and then she wanted me to call her and I did.

She moves on April 12th and I think it is just starting to sink in that she is really going. I cried almost all day yesterday.

I told her that I was hurt that she could discard me so easily and yet worry and send me an email about wanting a $10 buddha head. I told her that a 10 year relationship deserved more than 2 therapy sessions and that she was running. I told her that we never even talked after she said she was unhappy...that she kept leaving and having "boundaries". I told her that on the day she said she was unhappy that I still thought that we both felt that we were the luckiest people in the world to have found each other. I told her that any of our friends that are having problems spend time working on it.

I know she is running and I know my words are pushing, not helping.

In reply she basically said that this is hard for her too, that she feels as if she did work on it but that she just can't work on it the way I want. (therapy, time) I said that two therapy sessions and a few dates is not working on it, that of course, after so much time apart that it would take time to get past the fear. I told her that it was really unfair that she would tell me that she wanted to work on things and then bail so quickly.

I know that I messed up by saying all that and pushed her further away.
What do I do now? I don't know how all of you control all of these feelings and DB in the midst of it.

I am so so sad that she is moving in a few weeks. I can not believe it, it feels like a bad dream.
_________________________
Me(f): 51 W: 41
DP:8 M:3 T:10
"W not happy" 7/11
D final: 8/13

Top
#2233050 - 03/24/12 01:54 PM Re: DBing while settling finances [Re: needgrace]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10536
Loc: west coast
I am so sorry...and I don't have time for a more thoughtful reply at the moment.

I'll include the "37" rules based on the DB approach. Sandi assembled them and I made a modification or two...or 4?

So see if these help and they DO make sense and they are DB principles in practice.

Let her believe you have had an awakening. She cannot count on you being there...that may be helpful now and I'm not sure it'll hurt. It sounds as if she knows you want things to work,

so let's be LESS predictable.



These are "Rules" for newcomers assembled/organized by Sandi, consisting of principles based on MWD's Div Busting approach, (& editied SLIGHTLY by yours truly). I recommend you copy and paste & print it out. Carry it in your pocket if you have to. I know I did.

FOR WHEN YOU GET "THE BOMB"….

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then, don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!


4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.) In short, No Snooping.

11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.


13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne/perfume, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15. When at home with your spouse, do 180s… (so if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her to initiate), then be rather scarce or minimal with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short & simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! (No matter what time he/she comes home.) You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy YOUR life and time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life too.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it. The supposed changes will look like "tactics" to get them back & then they won't believe the changes are lasting.

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive & fun to be with. (As hard as this is, remember that angry, sad, pouting people do NOT ATTRACT others to them). The FUN somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a long while) so this takes patience on your behalf.

21. Never lose your cool! Never lose your temper! (That reinforces their choice to leave). Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill or be over the top in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel! And besides, feelings can and often do CHANGE.


24. Be patient……VERY, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!


25. **Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do NOT interrupt them when they are speaking, OR correct them, and stop what you may be working on or doing, to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying. (Listening better never hurts.)

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell). Silence can be the loving thing to "not say."

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.


28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Calmness is soothing to the calm person AND their "audience". Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only, NOT your spouse. The more you tell them what you are doing (or trying to show them) the more your actions will seem manipulative & insincere.

29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write or a single dramatic gesture. (Not saying not to do/say those too, but focus on consistent changes, over time. That earns the spouse's belief in the changes).

30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever, & even when you truly feel desperate & needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse. Very important that you get this concept.

31. When you communicate with your spouse, do not focus on yourself; instead, focus on them. If in person, make eye contact.

32. Do not believe any of what THEY SAY and less than 50% of what THEY DO. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared, AND OR, b/c they want to justify their leaving.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes! Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day, unless absolutely necessary. (That means only in urgent matters.)

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.




Hang in There NG...you will make it through this. You will survive. And if you really "get" DBing...

you will THRIVE
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

Top
#2233496 - 03/26/12 06:42 PM Re: DBing while settling finances [Re: 25yearsmlc]
MrBond Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/08
Posts: 10682
During this period, you're going to have to weed out the nuggets of what's bothering her from the rubbish. She's in the angry phase. It'll soon pass as long as you practice being consistent and calm.
_________________________
M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

Top
#2234002 - 03/28/12 03:17 PM Re: DBing while settling finances [Re: MrBond]
needgrace Offline
Member

Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 1344
Thank you for your kind replies. I had read the 37 rules before but need to read them daily. They are so helpful.

I had a better weekend DBing and this led to a conversation Monday where W brought up feelings she had from our attempt for her to get pregnant via artificial insemination a few years back. At first she was angry and accusatory but I remained calm and we were able to actually have a positive conversation about how we both felt.

I have felt like we have not talked since this started at the end of July, that she was always angry, unable and/or unavailable to talk. She moves in 2 weeks, and I know that she may very well distort our conversation to continue to reinforce her decision but I know that there is nothing I can do about that.

She wrote and thanked me for talking about it, that it was hard but good. In the past I would have used that as an example to push for more conversation, but now I am 180ing by not asking.

She had been having abdominal pain and she told me that they had found gallstones. She has to go to a specialist and may require surgery. Of course, I searched online to see if that can cause depression and anger. One doctor believes it can but there is not much other support for that notion. Guess I need to stop looking for an easy solution. smile

We agreed to a settlement this week and I am nervous and scared about receiving divorce papers sometime soon. I know it is coming but it will hurt as it is one more step.

I heard that her friends are throwing a going away party which makes me sad.

I am feeling okay though. I have a great IC that allows me to accept the part of me that cries and acts like a baby and to see that it is just a part of me and not all of me. i had been beating myself up about it. I also have family coming in town next week and have been excited to get my house ready for the guests. I have great friends and much to be grateful for. Including all of you on this forum. I take great comfort and am inspired by your series and support. Thank you.
_________________________
Me(f): 51 W: 41
DP:8 M:3 T:10
"W not happy" 7/11
D final: 8/13

Top
#2234005 - 03/28/12 03:42 PM Re: DBing while settling finances [Re: needgrace]
Cadet Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/09
Posts: 5177
Originally Posted By: needgrace
I searched online to see if that can cause depression and anger.

I think you have it backwards.
The depression and stress might be causing the stomach problems.
Not the other way around.
You are correct that their are no easy solutions or magic pills that will make this better.

Let her deal with it and stop trying to FIX it for her.
That is not going to work.
_________________________
Me-60, D27,S26

Top
#2234017 - 03/28/12 04:31 PM Re: DBing while settling finances [Re: Cadet]
needgrace Offline
Member

Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 1344
Yes, I believe too that the depression and stress is creating the physical symptoms.
I am a "fixer." Do you think my conversation w/ her sounds like "fixing" Mr Bond? Thanks you for your help.
_________________________
Me(f): 51 W: 41
DP:8 M:3 T:10
"W not happy" 7/11
D final: 8/13

Top
#2234018 - 03/28/12 04:32 PM Re: DBing while settling finances [Re: needgrace]
needgrace Offline
Member

Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 1344
oops I meant Cadet, not Mr. Bond. Sorry! smile
_________________________
Me(f): 51 W: 41
DP:8 M:3 T:10
"W not happy" 7/11
D final: 8/13

Top
#2234036 - 03/28/12 05:55 PM Re: DBing while settling finances [Re: needgrace]
needgrace Offline
Member

Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 1344
Hi,
I must admit that I keep obsessing about my situation. I feel as if I need to get better about detaching. I read the live strong article and i understand the importance of GAL, but I was wondering if anyone had other ideas that worked for them to help with detaching? Thank you.
_________________________
Me(f): 51 W: 41
DP:8 M:3 T:10
"W not happy" 7/11
D final: 8/13

Top
Page 2 of 11 < 1 2 3 4 ... 10 11 >


Moderator:  dbmod, Virginia 

Save Your Marriage! Schedule Online

Schedule a phone consultation with a Divorce Busting® Coach! Call: 800-664-2435 or 303-444-7004