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#2231796 - 03/19/12 06:07 PM Re: I don't love you, but we can be friends Part 2 [Re: Sad in WI]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
Been a few days since I have posted here. Had another awesome weekend with my family.

On Friday W told me my mom had sent her a letter. This was unbeknownst to me. Told W that you saw that you updated your f/b status as separated. Like I have no control over W I don't have any control over the W. W had a few glasses of wine and I fought off her advances three times, but gave in. I had no expectations that this would change things or make it better. Nothing was said in the morning.

W and D6 met her friend for a St Patrick's Day Parade. Me and S10 ran errands and picked up a few things for our upcoming trip, new family camera and another I-Pad. Money has been a hot button issue for us in the past. W was concerned about the stuff we bought. I told her that we were taking a family trip and that we bought these things for the family.

W's sister dropped our niece and we had a nice cookout and took a walk for ice cream. W and I then sat and watched the NCAA tournament.

On Sunday took the family and W's Sister and Niece to the Zoo. Before we left, W asked "What if the trip doesn't work?" Caught me off guard, told her I was living my life day by day. Wanted to say you first have to decide if you want to work on our M. She advised that she is always expecting the worse. I then said lets have a good time with the family.

We then went to the Zoo and then went out to eat. When we got home W, SIL and I then sat in the backyard and talked for 3 hours. I would never have done this before so I was happy that SIL was opening up to me. We are even talking on the phone.

When SIL left we had a nice night with the kids. We are now talking with each other more than we have been in years.

W was in good spirits this morning and even initated playful contact with me.

After reading the working on your marriage without talking about it I have been trying to apply some of these things with my W. I know that I am putting the cart before the horse, but I really liked some of the stuff in the book. It made a lot of sense to me. I am now reading the 5LL.
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2231814 - 03/19/12 07:11 PM Re: I don't love you, but we can be friends Part 2 [Re: Sad in WI]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2090
5LL's is great, required reading, but trying to apply it now will come across as pursuing. Read it, internalize it, but measure how you apply it at this point.

WRT moving out, in my state I spoke to a lawyer who strongly cautioned against it. He said that W's L can spin that into an abandonment claim and you will have issues if things go to court. As others have said, let W move out first. My sister got divorced and her H stayed in the house until the bitter end. He used that as leverage during the divorce proceedings -- i.e. "if you want me out earlier, then you need to compromise on X and Y."

Finally, it's obvious you're having a hard time giving space -- everyone has that problem. One thing I read that was helpful is that you have 2 options:

1) Hope the situation will get better
2) Assume things will never get better and act on that basis

It said that #1 is based on "hope" -- when you have hope, you have expectations. When those expectations are not met, it will lead you to be frustrated and/or get angry. That frustration and anger will cause you to react and act in a less than ideal way. The expectations are constantly refreshed when you're holding onto that hope. i.e. "I asked W to text me if she will be staying away over night". You have an expectation (and a hope) that she will text you. When she does not text you, you get frustrated and angry. The unfortunate thing is that this path can lead to perpetual pain, as you cling to the hope that things will improve, you are disappointed every day that they do not.

It said that the power of going with #2 is that you're able to escape from your expectations and can start to detach. If you assume that W will never treat you any better than she is treating you now, then you won't have expectations for anything better that W then won't fulfill. It said to expect this path to be very painful -- you will mourn your lost expectations. On the other hand, it's a journey with an end. You go through intense pain and come out the other side detached and ready to move on with a more realistic view of your situation.

I know this sounds very depressing, like hope is a bad thing, but it also seems to be pragmatic advice in terms of getting to a place where you can *truly* give space.

It is your expectations that are your worst enemy right now -- expectations that you have the power to turn things around quickly, expectations that doing something nice for W should result in W being nice to you, expectations that showing progress with 180's should cause W to change her mind, expectations that having a better relationship with SIL should influence W to want to work on the M, etc etc etc.

While W is a WAW, those expectations are perpetually unmet and it creates day to day pain and angst for you. If you can drop those expectations, you'll be in a much better place to weather the storm. Assume that W will do nothing to work on or repair the relationship. Assume that W will not be influenced by your actions, your family, or her family. Operate from that assumption and you may find peace sooner than you would otherwise.

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014
Divorced 8/2014

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#2231944 - 03/20/12 02:41 AM Re: I don't love you, but we can be friends Part 2 [Re: Accuray]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
Today was the first ime that I shot down the W. told her that I did not want to have sex if it did not mean anything. Told her that I was serious about setting this boundary (no sex while we are limbo.)

Told her she has a killer body, but wanted more from her than this. Said I enjoyed hanging out with her. She was mad but I would rather have this than breaking a promise.
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2232125 - 03/20/12 07:04 PM Re: I don't love you, but we can be friends Part 2 [Re: Sad in WI]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2090
She was mad, but she will respect you for maintaining your boundary, that will make her feel safe with you because you can be relied upon to do what you say.

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014
Divorced 8/2014

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#2232127 - 03/20/12 07:07 PM Re: I don't love you, but we can be friends Part 2 [Re: Accuray]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
This morning was great. No negative energy from the W and I feel much better about my decision.
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2232129 - 03/20/12 07:20 PM Re: I don't love you, but we can be friends Part 2 [Re: Accuray]
mimivac Offline
Member

Registered: 01/30/12
Posts: 158
Loc: Washington DC
Originally Posted By: Accuray
It said that the power of going with #2 is that you're able to escape from your expectations and can start to detach. If you assume that W will never treat you any better than she is treating you now, then you won't have expectations for anything better that W then won't fulfill. It said to expect this path to be very painful -- you will mourn your lost expectations. On the other hand, it's a journey with an end. You go through intense pain and come out the other side detached and ready to move on with a more realistic view of your situation.

I know this sounds very depressing, like hope is a bad thing, but it also seems to be pragmatic advice in terms of getting to a place where you can *truly* give space.

It is your expectations that are your worst enemy right now -- expectations that you have the power to turn things around quickly, expectations that doing something nice for W should result in W being nice to you, expectations that showing progress with 180's should cause W to change her mind, expectations that having a better relationship with SIL should influence W to want to work on the M, etc etc etc.

While W is a WAW, those expectations are perpetually unmet and it creates day to day pain and angst for you. If you can drop those expectations, you'll be in a much better place to weather the storm. Assume that W will do nothing to work on or repair the relationship. Assume that W will not be influenced by your actions, your family, or her family. Operate from that assumption and you may find peace sooner than you would otherwise.


Very important to remember, and difficult to apply. But when you do, the rewards are not just peace and detachment, but true growth. When you are not mired in expectations, when you are not constantly evaluating what your WAS has said or done, you begin to truly look within. You begin to understand your role in the m's demise and your role within your own life. You begin to value yourself. Yes, there is pain. The pain of letting go can be intense, but it is also cleansing. I can't tell you how much I feel I have grown in just a few short months of attempting to focus on myself and create distance between myself and my sitch. I am just a beginner, but the payoff is already worth it.

Originally Posted By: Accuray
She was mad, but she will respect you for maintaining your boundary, that will make her feel safe with you because you can be relied upon to do what you say.


Totally agree. When you value yourself and take your own boundaries seriously, so will others. Good job.

Mimi
_________________________
M:37; H:37; M:10 years;T:13 years;no kids.
Bomb ("I love you, but don't feel things for you I should":1/08/12
Separated (H living with various friends:1/18/12
Separated (H rented his own apartment:3/4/12

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#2232237 - 03/21/12 01:42 AM Re: I don't love you, but we can be friends Part 2 [Re: mimivac]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
Man, I did some back tracking with myself today slipping into old habits. Was snooping at her e-mail and found an e-mail for a condo to rent. I freaked out internally. Snooping does nothing.

I am telling myself to expect the worse with my W. She told me she wanted space and for the most part I think that I give that to her, I don't call, text or e-mail. When we are home I will not attempt to prolong the conversation or take it to areas where I shouldn't. As a fixer I am having a hard time not trying to make things better or get answers from my W. I want her to say, "it does not matter what you do I am dead set on leaving." If I knew that detaching would not be a choice, I would have to do it.

Whether things or good or bad I never had control of the M as much as I thought I did.

W has praised some of my actions as of late, but is unwilling to discuss our R. On a positive note I suppose that every good day we have is a step in the right direction. Ususally in three weeks time in the past the talk of leaving etc would have subsided.

To date it has not. I know that I am making changes to make me a better me and that I have no control what my W decides to do. In the same house it is hard to totally detach from her, the best I have been able to do is hide my emotions and have a big smile on my face regardless of how I really feel.

She asked me yesterday how I could love someone as crazy as her. I simply told her that I loved her in good and in bad times which is how I feel. I wanted to say that I love her unconditionnaly but ultimately my actions will speak louder than words.

I realize that three weeks in is nothing compared to others in my sitch.

W is leaning on me for the kids and stuff around the house which makes me happy. I know that in terms of the R it means nothing, but prior to the bomb being dropped she was doing it all herself. I will stop rambling.
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2232246 - 03/21/12 02:30 AM Re: I don't love you, but we can be friends Part 2 [Re: Sad in WI]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2090
Keep rambling! Get it all out, it helps.

Know too that a chemical reaction is happening in your brain that is making you feel this way.

When W pulls away, you feel out of control. Feeling out of control is very closely tied to feeling "in love". When you're dating, you feel some degree of out of control because you're putting yourself on the line and don't know how the other person will react. That's what makes you feel so much passion. You're getting that same chemical release now, so it's making you feel more "in love" than you have in a long time because your control has been lost.

You can combat that by doing other things that make you feel in control. Exercise, lose weight, play an instrument, do something where you can chart progress and see improvement. When you see how you can control your own destiny, it will offset some of your chemical reaction.

Keep posting, find someone to talk to who is not your W. Let it all out, work through it, but keep to the path. Detach detach detach.

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014
Divorced 8/2014

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#2232303 - 03/21/12 08:52 AM Re: I don't love you, but we can be friends Part 2 [Re: Accuray]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
Thanks for the kind words Accuray & Mimivac. Out of control is right, it is taking every fabric of my being to not talk to my W and simply ask her if she is proceeding with the D and if she intends to move out.

The other night my wife told me she was "F**cked Up" and that I was crazy for wanting to be with her. I simply listened and stated that M like anything has its ups and downs. Left it at that. She knows that I love her so it would do no good for me to tell her that.

Part of me is waiting for the other proverbial foot to drop. It feels hopeless and that her mind is made up already.

Then I tell myself that I need to press forward with my 180's and my GAL (currently riding a stationary bike as I write this).

My relationship with the kids is stronger than it has ever been so that is something I can be proud of.
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2232346 - 03/21/12 02:39 PM Re: I don't love you, but we can be friends Part 2 [Re: Sad in WI]
Starsky309 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 5055
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Sad in WI


She asked me yesterday how I could love someone as crazy as her. I simply told her that I loved her in good and in bad times which is how I feel. I wanted to say that I love her unconditionnaly but ultimately my actions will speak louder than words.


Sad, (hey, you gotta change that username, dude -- pick something stronger!)

Next time she says something like this, try saying "Yes, this has been difficult on all of us." Something non-committal; neutral. Your response was a bit pursuing. WE hear ourselves saying "I still love you!", but in their current state, THEY hear us saying "I'M NOT LISTENING TO YOU, OR CONSIDERING YOUR CURRENT FEELINGS. I STILL LOVE YOU, DAMMIT, AND YOU NEED TO LOVE ME, TOO!"

LOVE is unconditional. RELATIONSHIPS -- especially married relationships -- are very much conditional, and there's nothing that says we have to (or even should) respond to a spouse's unfaithfulness or walk-away'dness with our unconditional love, trust and support. Our spouses begin to value us when we learn to better value ourselves -- and no sooner.


Starsky
_________________________
At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)

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