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#2235305 - 04/04/12 04:15 AM Re: We started marriage counseling & now he wants out [Re: zig]
zig Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 1855
Loc: KS
hi fighting - so sorry to hear you are in this situation.

i only found this wonderful site a couple of months ago, 5 months into my switch. if i got it right yours has just started and in that way you should count yourself extremely lucky..

the advice i can give is that read the books as the others have suggested and start following the 37 rules and FORCE yourself to start focusing on what you are doing in every moment and not what your WAS is doing.

25yrsmlc posted somewhere - and it really stuck with me when i read it - about how she regretted all the time she wasted in the beginning not focusing on making herself a better person and seeing her own role in the relationship and what she could change to make it better - because after wards she realized that the whole process may have taken a much shorter time the sooner she had got started on herself
there is an amazing amount of advice and insight and info here - wish i had the time to just read it all - but life has got to be lived.

keep the faith, but let go of the expectations

take care of yourself first, before you try to take care of the switch

zig
_________________________
me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"


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#2235310 - 04/04/12 04:55 AM Re: We started marriage counseling & now he wants out [Re: zig]
fightingforit Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/12
Posts: 96
Thanks for the advice on the sites to check out passive aggressive behavior. I am sure that I play a role in all this, I am just so confused. He really seemed happy to me. We renewed our vows last August for our 10 year anniversary and I just got the video of him saying his and his is crying (hardly ever does that) saying that he is so happy to have me by his side as his partner the rest of his life. I know that I need to focus on myself, my IC keeps saying that but I am so confused, shocked and hurt by what he is doing now that I get a little obsessive about it. I will try to start focusing on myself but I am going to go look up those websites right now!

What are the 37 rules?

Yes, trying so hard to let go of expectations. Thanks for all the advice, I feel like I am not alone in this crazy journey that none of my friends can relate to.
_________________________
M 37, H 37
M 10, T 12
S 4
D 2
3/14/12 ILYBNILWY
4/2/12 H consults a L, files nothing
4/26/12 H moves to his new place

I do not want to have regrets

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#2235316 - 04/04/12 06:49 AM Re: We started marriage counseling & now he wants out [Re: fightingforit]
unimaginable Offline
New Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 12
The 37 Rules

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.

21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).

27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.

30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.

33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

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#2235331 - 04/04/12 11:46 AM Re: We started marriage counseling & now he wants out [Re: unimaginable]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10725
Loc: west coast
Dear Fighting,

This looks longer than it is, b/c it includes the 37 "rules" with a few comments added. But then again, it IS still longer than most. Despite that, I hope you'll give it the attention I gave writing it.

Just Try and see if you can separate the chafff from the wheat, taking what applies and chucking the rest. I won't be offended.

These "rules" are merely "strongly urged suggestions" that were assembled by DB veterans, mostly one veteran DBer named Sandi. Now and then they get modified & I added a few comments below.


What matters is that you understand the principles upon which these are based. These so called rules, are ALL based on Div Busting principles.


SO.... you MUST read the book
,
either the first one, Divorce Busting, and or the 2nd one, (which I prefer), which is Divorce Remedy.

Buy, rent, borrow or order the books today if you have not already. They are potentially life changing. I have 3 copies b/c I lent them out and they sometimes did not return. So now I have it on my Nook...problem solved.

These are not long, boring or dense books. I don't mean to harp on this b/c you're new here. But I recall a woman posting here for months about how she "tried this and that DBing" but it "just didn't work"....

only to mention much later on and only with prodding, that she never had read the books b/c she "had a lot of things to read."

I admit it irritated me. She seemed too lazy to read ONE book on saving her m, but took the time to post here about how bad & lazy and mean her partner was. ALL of her descriptive words about him were negative. All of them.

Back to the DB book(s), Some chapters relate more than others, so after you read the first few chapters to get the foundation, you'll get the ideas behind these strategies and understand WHY they exist.

After that then skim the table of contents AND THEN go to the most relevant parts. Such as "the depressed spouse" or "substance abuse" -- and I cite those just as examples.

The books articulate the approach this site uses, and it's NOT like other marriage solving approaches.


Instead of re-hashing the past, and or listing your mutual grievances, (so you can have your "choreographed" arguments, AGAIN,

or picking at your childhood issues and how bad they were, or how they affected you or your spouse...

(hey, we know those problems need to be addressed, but LATER... not here at this crisis moment in your life)


Instead, we look at what behaviors HELP the marriage, so we can do more of those,

and

what behaviors hurt the marriage, so we can do less or none of those behaviors.

Sounds simple, yet it's radically different than most. And though simple, it's not necessarily "easy" to implement. There is a lot of UNlearning we have to do.

It's a SOLUTION BASED approach, so if you want to assign blame, go elsewhere.

IF you want to be declared "right" , go elsewhere.

If you want to condemn your h, go elsewhere...

I'm not saying that to be harsh, but to be direct, and tell you what I learned the hard way.

I kid you not, but the first 3 mc's we saw, over 2 or 3 years, ALL said that my h was being "very selfish" and or "acting like a single man" and or

"not thinking of anyone but himself". Well, that felt kind of good at first.

It validated my perception that my h was way out of line, that he either really wanted out of the marriage...or did not care about my wants/needs enough to act like it,

so it was a "take it or leave it" situation and that is NOT easy on the ego let me tell you.

The "good news" is that the marriage counselors made me feel like I was "RIGHT"... so yay...I was -RIGHT, BUT POWERLESS....b/c

what do I DO with information that declares my h to be a selfish jerk?

Not a lot! Cry that I chose him in the first place, OR cry that he changed on me, OR Divorce him, or Be a doormat? Hmmm....but gee--

Were those really my only options?


Thanks to the DB approach, I learned that there was another option...

So when I read the books, I then came here, AND I also got a DB coach (which was the single most important step I took out of all of them.

I did eventually get a great MC who believed in DBing, & I don't want to short change him-such a good man, and he met my h and they hit it off so fwiw, I think male mc's who are Pro marriage are great helps for WAH's

b/c my mc thought I was great. He liked me as a wife, and I know he told my h that, or something like " YOU sure you are leaving HER and your kids...for a JOB/ADVENTURE???"

All I know is my h liked the mc, and that was a first.

BTW, I had seen that marriage counselor, alone, for months before they even met. I believe going to mc alone is better than not going UNLESS you get a rehasher who validates you wanting out.

I always assume when a friend asks for marriage advice, I ought to at least TRY to see it from their spouses view...doesn't everyone? I mean the friend asking you KNOWS you prefer them but don't you owe it to them to try and help KEEP the marriage going?

So yes I DID go to "marriage counselling" alone. Why not? If you buy into the idea that one person can change a 2 person relationshihp, as I do, you can see why I would go with or without h.

...but the DB coach for ME, was an even more amazing Godsend. She was Just who I needed at that time in my life. I was so blessed. (Her name is Vernetta but she retired!! How dare a DB coach GAL of her own!! cool

I highly recommend them.
Are they expensive? Well, compared to what? Not more expensive than other t's or mc's here, as I was paying $150-200$ an hour here, for mc's. ALSO, DB coaches are not as expensive as divorce...

But BTW--you DO have to Follow the DB coaches advice, (if you trust them) for their advice to help you
! cool

As Zig mentioned, (& thanks for the plug, Zig!)

What I wish I had known much earlier, was how much time I was

wasting on WHAT my h was doing/thinking/feeling whatever he was doing/feeling/thinking....

and WHY/WHY/WHY?? he was doing/thinking/feeling/planning/dreaming/breathing/ watching tV the way he was....


I obsessed way too much and I got ANGRY too often and too deeply

...so angry that it consumed ME and my time and energy.

A saying about anger/unforgiveness that I found illustrative, was this:

Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire, to get smoke in their eyes.


My anger and pain kept me from being the best mom I could be, & at such a vulnerable time for my kids...it was THAT realization which got me thinking maybe I should let go of the anger. But I did NOT know how.

I did not see my parents let go of their grudges until my dad lay on his deathbed. I had not witnessed true forgiveness growing up. I had to learn it.

I did some more reading & some exercises in which I learned to turn my pain and anger over to God, as a step towards forgiveness and

it may Sound gimmicky but I did it, out loud in the shower (so the kids would not hear & think I was nuts)

But I'd think it
- "God, this is too much for me. So I turn my pain/anger over to YOU, please take it from me"...

and then saying it, and then hearing me say it,

all helped it to sink it and to lift a weight off my shoulders. It calmed me.

Especially just before H would call me.

I could see my girl's lives were being harmed BY ME & My anger, I was so preoccupied with my pain and rage at the unfairness of it all,

but at some point, I realized I could not blame all that on h. I could not blame how I treated my kids, on him.

So I owned how I chose to act with them....so I had to learn to let go of what I could not control.

I think that's a big "secret" to happiness...for real.


I OWNED my emotional reaction and how I was with them. I did not like who I was becoming. But I did not see forgiveness growing up as a child. I did not know what it looked like. But I figured out one thing; it required letting go of the past...

So I changed. It's NOT EASY, but it's also NOT COMPLICATED.

The rules are super helpful but at some point in the NEAR future,

you need to know what YOU want to work on, in YOU.

Your H is not here working on the marriage, you are.

We cannot change or help HIM.

You only control you...think about that.

YOU ONLY CONTROL YOU so all the wondering about him is at best, useless.


So is asking "WHY??"

SIDENOTE...I once worked in a summer camp for children w/cancer. An 11 y/o girl w/ cancer was there. She told me "I used to ask God, 'why am I sick God? Why ME, God, why ME?' I'd ask him why, why why?'
Then one morning I said 'I just am. So I'm going to try and have fun while I still can"...

Well she sure DID have fun that summer. She learned new things and she swam farther than ever before, and swung on the rope swing higher than before.

And That was her last summer on earth...she taught me something I almost forgot.

The friend who went to camp with me reminded me of her when I said, "Why is h doing this to me? Why? WHY??" And my friend reminded me of our little 11 y/o "teacher"...

I realized that I was truly asking useless, unanswerable questions w/my precious time.


My h probably does NOT know to this day, why he made the choices he made. So why would I spend my precious time trying to decode it? Well, I WON'T...

You cannot make your h feel a certain way and you cannot control his actions or feelings.

You CAN change the dynamic in your marriage--by changing how YOU react and interact with him,

so yes-- when one person in a two person relationship, behaves differently,

the relationship itself changes, by definition, just w/that one person's changes.



Originally Posted By: unimaginable
The 37 Rules

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

THESE First 8 rules are saying the same thing with different examples; DO NOT PURSUE or try to convince him...of anything.

The more you challenge his choices, the more you force him to defend and explain them. That solidifies the choices.


9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)


Some folks focus on whether there is OW or OM even when there is no evidence. They simply do not believe it's possible to want out of a marriage without a 3rd party. Statistically they have a point but it's by no means a sure thing. It's more than half...but

as the "rule" says Do NOT snoop. And if an affair is not for sure a dealbreaker, I cannot understand the value of focussing on whether there is OW.

Why not snoop?

B/c If you want to try to work on the m even if there is an OW, if you want to to BE the better choice, then what's the point of snooping?

It often deflects. It often prevents or hinders the LBSer from digging deep into THEMSELVES to see what They can work on. What traits do THEY want to repair or change about themselves? What role did THEY play in how things went? Is it possible that they may have pushed their spouses into the arms of OP? (I'm not saying it's their fault of that affairs are justified...I'm saying to work on what you CAN control. I think the initial response of "is there someone else?" is so convenient, same as "Is it MLC?" b/c we don't want to believe WE had something to do with it.

At the same time, you cannot blame yourself for HIS choices. But you CAN improve yourself and make yourself happier and that happens to be more attractive.

Why not do that instead?

If there is OW/OM, the LBS might instead shift the blame and Not learn a damn thing about why the marriage ended (if it does)

and why the affair took place, and they go on in their lives repeating the same behavior and ending up in similar situations.

If there is OW and he cares about her enough to leave you, at some point you will KNOW...IF NOT, then all that energy spent on snooping could have been spent on becoming the woman you want to become.

That's why the DBers suggest not snooping.

It would be different if you KNEW that an OW was absolutely for sure, a dealbreaker for you--

Some people do know this, maybe b/c they saw it growing up and know they themselves cannot deal with it. OR they have experienced it before with the same spouse, and they see too much of a pattern, they can't go through it again, or it's the straw that broke the camel's back, etc.

But if this is the first time there's been a real crisis in the marriage and you want to try to work on it,

I urge you to pay special attention to that rule. Don't snoop. It usually backfires.


11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.


This^^^ is crucial to know, and it's true. Once you radiate this, you will be happier and so will your kids and, at some level, your h will wonder what the heck is wrong with HIS perception, if you are doing so well in your life...that matters a lot. You are not the one who will lose the most and at some level, you may pity him for his poor choices...so Know this, let it sink in. Not rubbing it in, just believing that regardless of outcome, YOU will be fine.



13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

More examples of knowing you will be fine AND making it happen AND letting that inner belief, show.


15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

these^^^^ are all ways to show you are GAL, AND new behaviors, or "180s"...

you need to COUNTER and CONTRAST his negative images of you or the marriage

with new positives...so that he has no "fuel" for his negative images.

If you get angry at him, it only validates his choice to leave (and can speed it up).

You do NOT want him telling himself "Thank God I'm outta here b/c I'm SO RIGHT TO GO..."

You want to undermine the negatives he has used to justify/rationalize his choice. You do this by showing (not telling) him that his "data" about you isn't real.
You cannot TELL HIM this..you demonstrate the changes. If you highlight them or point them out

you merely look as if they are "tactical strategies" and not real changes...

so Do/Be the changes, do not talk about them.

Become a woman only a fool would leave.




17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.



I often think ^^^ #17 is THE most important rule...or one of them. It makes you much more attractive and attractING...

and I think where the head goes, the heart, eventually, will follow.


So when you BELIEVE you will be happy no matter what HE does, and that you will survive this AND THRIVE after this, it will show and be true.

And it is true.
Suppose you decide he's bad news for you - maybe he is not the man you married,

then at some point you will KNOW this in your head and then your heart will realize it too. Then YOU will move on...and you will be happy again.

but we are not there yet and may never be. So, back to YOU...


18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realizes what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

I would add to this^^^, to Give him something to miss. No man misses a cold angry woman. A woman who laughs hard and often (at appropriate things) a woman who has friends she is warm & loving & affectionate to, who is interested in the world and people around her, who really LIKES herself, is someone people want to be around.

When you feel lousy and miserable and self pitying (even when you "deserve" to feel bad), you must realize that it's NOT going to help your cause. It's just a drag to be around someone like that.

Let's face it, even WE don't want to hang around with recently widowed people, (who "deserve" to be miserable) and even those we love, get too hard to be around for a long time or a whole lot. Time to get or polish up those acting skills b/c you are an uber calm

centered woman who knows HER WORTH and is NOT a loose cannon. Whatevet you believe the negatives HE believes about you are you NEGATE THOSE!

If he says you were sloppy but hyper, you get VERY tidy but you move like a relaxed Zen Sloth... cool (I'd use a different emoticon but there's no zen sloth)


19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment.
This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected.
Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake," b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

I'd just add, being LESS PREDICTABLE is a step towards being a bit more mysterious AND probably does a ways towards being a tad insecure about having you "no matter what" waiting around. Don't lose your patienc

But do NOT tell him that "no matter what, I'll be here waiting for you..."

that makes a nice song. But it gives him permission 1) to mistreat you as if you have no other options so you'll take the crap he dishes out AND

2) that there is NO rush to him "finding himself" and he can take all the time in the world to explore EVERY other option or urge he gets....

having him sense that there is at least the possibility of losing you (Which there IS, at some point, right?? I mean we all have a point beyond which we just can't go...but know this, it's farther away than you now think.\\ I put up with more TIME apart than I ever expected I would. No regrets about that as I had kids I put through more than I expected), but it was a good thing.


20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patience on your behalf.

NO R TALK from you...even if He brings it up---unless he's being VERY friendly and sober, and over a few days, not just one evening...OTherwiseveer off the topic til you see a MC or 3rd party

OR til enough time has passed with his new found "certainty" about how great you two are together...and even then, be calm and circumspect about it.

You go on living your new better, regardless of what he says or feels that HOUR...


21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

Losing your temper will confirm his fears/ complaints and validate them. Don't do it and don't go there. No matter how "right" you are, it does NOT help you.


22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

No convincing him he's "wrong" to feel that way or "inaccurate" about his recall. Of course he's inaccurate. And of course you don't see things the same way. Two people who witness a car accident don't recall it the same way; so two emotionally invested "witnesses" won't see their marriage identically either.

What matters is how you'll see the future, from this day forward...but that's a long way off for now.

So don't argue with him about what he recalls or how he FEELS...


24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

It may feel counter intuitive to back off and be patient, but it's true. Only when he fears losing you or rocking the boat too much, (by seeing you detach)

or maybe "making the mistake of his life" will he really wonder...and he cannot do that with you challenging that choice. He needs the space and time to let good memories resurface b/c right now he's supprressing them so he can stay on his "mission.

I'd expect your h to act as if he's at peace with his brilliant brave choice...even if he's scared witless. He sure won't tell YOU that...he desperately wants to be "right"...


25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.


Aside from showing that you value and respect what they say, you are also gathering "intel" so that you know what's really bugging him. You want the data.

You need to know what it is YOU can work on to show change in you...but only change the things you think are validly worth changing.

if he wishes you spoke 4 languages and he's leaving you b/c you only speak 2, get real.


26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

^^^ It is for you, AND it makes you feel better and that makes you look better AND act better (and obsess and nag and get angry LESS...)


28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

Meaning, don't point them out to show your changes...that makes them look tactical and temporary.


29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.

30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up, no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.


GET THIS^^^^....


35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary--as in urgent/emergency matters ONLY.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.



So to sum up the 2 conclusions of what these rules lead to, for ME -

The "math" of it is,

Consistent change in you + sufficient time = change HE can believe in.


And

for your h to return to the marriage and reconcile, he will have to believe that

marriage to you can be better/different than before.

It's up to YOU to show that it can be.


So work on YOU and we'll help you all we can.

Be the best you that you can be.

Mother your children as best you can. IT's crucial they feel your love for them more now than ever, as they need you more now than ever...so it's the right thing to do

and

a loving co-parent is damn attractive too.

((( )))
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

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#2235394 - 04/04/12 04:45 PM Re: We started marriage counseling & now he wants out [Re: 25yearsmlc]
tonibertha Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 166
beautiful advice, 25yearsmlc...what do u suggest where there is no contact (H doesn't really seem interested in DD, tho he sends money for her)?
_________________________
Me 33, H 34
T 15 (on and off, 7 years this stretch)
M 4
DD 3
OW July 2010, IDLY - Oct 2010

1st sep 28/5/11-14/8/11 (my idea)
OW confirmed 25/11/11 (H travelled with OW 26/11/11)
I moved out 3/12/11

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#2235460 - 04/04/12 07:41 PM Re: We started marriage counseling & now he wants out [Re: tonibertha]
MrBond Online
Member

Registered: 06/18/08
Posts: 10996
Again, read Divorce Busting or Divorce Remedy. There are no fast shortcuts to anyone's sitches.
_________________________
M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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#2235556 - 04/05/12 06:19 AM Re: We started marriage counseling & now he wants out [Re: Queen_of_Swords]
fightingforit Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/12
Posts: 96
Originally Posted By: Queen_of_Swords
There is one thing I really found helpful in understanding how passive aggressiveness works.
I suggest you search for The Three Faces of Victim,
An Overview of the Drama Triangle on the internet.
In that one article is a wealth of information on the dynamic.

labug is correct in that if your spouse is P/A only he can change that about him. He has to choose not to be anyone's victim. That means accountability, and for many being accountable for their choices, behaviour and decisions is scary.


This information was unbelievable- I kept re-reading it all day. We are definitely on the triangle, for me knowledge is power because now that I know what the dynamic is I can change my part. Any other information on the subject you have would be great. My IC (who is also our MC) is having me read things on gas lighting behaviors because she feels I am the "patient" in the relationship in his mind. It is hard to find information on Passive aggressive behaviors. I had such a great session today. it was a joint session but I am feeling stronger and it shows. It helps to have support and kinship on this site, because then he isn't seeing me as this begging, pleading, person who needs him to live. I really do want to work on myself and have a healthy marriage, I don't want to go back to how it was after my eyes have been opened to the dysfunction. Thanks for all you advice and encouraging words.
_________________________
M 37, H 37
M 10, T 12
S 4
D 2
3/14/12 ILYBNILWY
4/2/12 H consults a L, files nothing
4/26/12 H moves to his new place

I do not want to have regrets

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#2235557 - 04/05/12 06:20 AM Re: We started marriage counseling & now he wants out [Re: fightingforit]
fightingforit Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/12
Posts: 96
Thanks 25yrsmlc for reminding me about my most important role, which is that of mother:)
_________________________
M 37, H 37
M 10, T 12
S 4
D 2
3/14/12 ILYBNILWY
4/2/12 H consults a L, files nothing
4/26/12 H moves to his new place

I do not want to have regrets

Top
#2235598 - 04/05/12 02:44 PM Re: We started marriage counseling & now he wants out [Re: 25yearsmlc]
zig Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 1855
Loc: KS
25yearsmlc - your post brought me to tears. thank you - even though you wrote it to fighting, you wrote it to all of us, also.

would it be alright with you if i printed it out and showed it to my most supportive friend (actually the only person now who is fully supporting me in DB'ing. both families have pretty much given up - 7 months has gotten too long for them!) as well as to the counselor i am seeing who just announced that she thinks we are headed for divorce after 4 appointments?
_________________________
me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"


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#2235706 - 04/05/12 08:14 PM Re: We started marriage counseling & now he wants out [Re: zig]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10725
Loc: west coast
That's fine Zig.

I assemble the ones I like that I write AND that others write, b/c a lot of themes are sort of universal here.

Heartbreak is also universal. And if you have kids, remember that they too, will someday face heartbreak.

If they are old enough, they will think of how YOU modelled being a woman of grace/dignity and strength in the face of such a setback.

If they are not old enough they will ask you. So think of that on those days when you want to wallow, which we all do at times.

it's especially then that we have to pick ourselves up and dust ourselves off, and take a step forward.

((( )))
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

Top
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