Again thanks for all your comments…it really is a great help just to bounce ideas off somebody, as I don’t have family or friends I can turn to. In general the forum and books such as DR keep me sane.
My first post gives a fairly good description of the original sitch that led to the November bomb: Here is a summary:
I now see that we had the classic symptoms of WAW syndrome. She had concerns (over several years) about our marriage, I played them down, invalidated her feelings, repeat, and repeat. Then she stopped complaining, so I thought things were OK. She eventually gave up and started an exit strategy (although she denies she planned it – just says that she was terribly unhappy). In the last three months she had become a wooden door and stopped even kissing me goodnight and letting me hold her hand and started doing things with the kids without me. I hardly protested as I was petrified that she would tell me she didn’t love me anymore, and wanted me to leave. Then she dropped the November bomb.
Within days I started DBing (after the usual pleading etc) and changes in me came quickly. She had given me until the end of Jan to find somewhere to live. We got through Christmas quite well and she admitted ‘we were getting on better than for a long time’ although we never went out together as a couple except for a couple of trips to the movies.
In Jan I said (stupidly) that I felt I had an executioners axe hanging over me and wanted to know when she wanted me to move out. She complained that I was asking her to make the same (heartwrenching) decision she had already made in November all over again except this time it was harder (because I had changed and we were getting on better). She never gave me a date.
Things were still good into February until she saw the title of a book on my kindle and downloaded a sample. The book wasn’t DB or DR but had a provocative title ‘Stop your Divorce….’ She downloaded a sample of the WRONG book with the same title and read it and immediately became cold, distant etc. The book confirmed to her that all the changes in me were ‘just to win her back’.
Things went downhill but I remained upbeat, happy and DB focussed. Stress at her work (she has a very busy demanding full time job) also came into it. One evening in tears about work issues, , she complained she was having a ‘nervous breakdown’. She asked me if I was happy and I said ‘yes’ and she admitted later that my response had confounded her. Previously in November she had asked the same question and I said ‘no’ and it lead to the ‘we must split up ‘ conversation.
Into March she continued to be frosty, distant etc and tension built in the house like a pressure cooker, but we didn’t have an R conversation. They are few and far between and always have been and a lot of forum advice is to avoid R conversations.
She seemed to be cracking up under the pressure of work and in hindsight ‘the tension of home’ and then she started to plan trips to her parents with the kids but without me, and also a night out for a friends 40th but without me. I also started to plan a small weekend break with the kids but without her (she was so miserable that I didn’t want her to bring me down), This led to an R conversation, which essentially went along the lines of: I might have changed but her feelings towards me had not. I also tried to get her to ‘work on our marriage’ but with no success. She just wanted a separation with no guarantees or time scales.
Since the second bomb, she is more upbeat and engaging in conversation etc, everything is pleasant again – the tension bubble is burst and we have even been out twice as a family –once to the park and once to the movies.
What has she complained about?
She did the classic WAW complaining over the years ‘love is like a flower, you need to water it or it withers and dies’, ‘ you don’t make me feel special’ ‘ if we don’t sort it out we will end up getting divorced’ etc…but of course I didn’t listen and withdraw, and negated her feelings…….if only I knew what I know now!!! We never resolved any of these conflicts so she stopped complaining withdrew herself and the ‘cold’ war started. Ince the bomb she hasn’t really complained at all about me.
Has she complimented or been positive about any aspects of you?
Yes, for sure she has noticed changes in me: she has noticed my weightloss and trim figure (although I was never big), she has complimented me on some new clothes and new aftershave. She has noticed that I have a much better relationship with the kids, and I do a lot more with them, and she has noticed I do a lot more chores around the house. Also, she asks about my running and running club activities and that I have been GAL, (although it is difficult to join a club or activity in the week as I spend a lot of midweeks away at work.
What do you want IRT the M?
Not sure what IRT is? Did you mean LRT?
What do you want, FOR YOU?
To be the best person I can be for W and the kids, And if it is not to be with W, then to take all I have learnt into any new relationship. I believe I will be a winner in all this either with W or without. I don’t think she will necessarily be a loser, that will depend whether she is truly happy.
What do you think you could fix, in you?
What do you think is GOOD about you, even if it could be better?
I need to think about these two questions a little more……will post later. thanks again
Me49 W45 T15 M13 S11 S8 BD 11/15/11 & 3/27/12 Moved out 4/9/12 Moved back 4/23/12 W working on US 5/20/12 Now Piecing! May-Oct14 drifting Dec 14 W agrees to more QT BD Oct15 ILYBINILWY W filed 1/25/16
I have a passive/aggressive nature which I am trying to change - in fact it is not so hard to change now that I actually know the nature of my previous behaviour.
I want to be able to give clear direct expression to my feelings.
I want to make friends easier, be more spontaneous and extrovert. To not be afraid to work through conflicts.
What do you think is GOOD about you, even if it could be better?
I am a quick learner :-) I've learnt so much in such a short space of time, but I am like a sponge and want to learn so much more about me, and women.
Me49 W45 T15 M13 S11 S8 BD 11/15/11 & 3/27/12 Moved out 4/9/12 Moved back 4/23/12 W working on US 5/20/12 Now Piecing! May-Oct14 drifting Dec 14 W agrees to more QT BD Oct15 ILYBINILWY W filed 1/25/16
you might be right - its a very real possibility and her behaviour since I said I was moving out has been friendly, chatty and even doing my nails today! Yes she was filing her nails and then asked if i wanted my doing!..I said yes, of course! The last few days have been good with family outings to the park, movies and today to the theatre - but of course it is all since I agreed to move out and she can see light at the end of her dark tunnel.
I have no accommodation from 3rd May so will probably move back home. I am working away the next 3 weeks only returning to my hometown Friday to Sunday. It really only gives me Saturdays to hunt for property and next saturday she wants me to have the kids all day.
She cant have her cake and eat it!
Me49 W45 T15 M13 S11 S8 BD 11/15/11 & 3/27/12 Moved out 4/9/12 Moved back 4/23/12 W working on US 5/20/12 Now Piecing! May-Oct14 drifting Dec 14 W agrees to more QT BD Oct15 ILYBINILWY W filed 1/25/16
So what exactly is cake-eating and how do I stop her doing it?
Her motive for giving me the kids next Saturday is 3 fold. 1. - so i see more of the kids 2. - so they see me 3, - because she is going out with the girls (a long-standing night out arranged by her)and will not have to arrange a babysitter or get up early (with the kids) on Sunday morning
The following 2 weekends I dont have large enough accommodation to take the kids overnight so she will have them.
Is their a cake-eatin g thread?
Me49 W45 T15 M13 S11 S8 BD 11/15/11 & 3/27/12 Moved out 4/9/12 Moved back 4/23/12 W working on US 5/20/12 Now Piecing! May-Oct14 drifting Dec 14 W agrees to more QT BD Oct15 ILYBINILWY W filed 1/25/16
IRT, short for In Regards To... Would you be able to answer that?
I won't harp on the moving out temporarily thing, but I still think you need to be careful... You might at least want to get verbal confirmation from your W that on May 3, when you are done your work trips, that you WILL be moving back into the house.
Just a thought.
While I do believe that cake eating really is about whether we feel we are being taken advantage of, I have begun to understand that we can be taken advantage of, simply by our good nature and in ways that it appears that we are actively choosing something, rather than being manipulated into it.
It might be something like your W going out one night a week, planned and agreed upon by the both of you and you knew you would otherwise be home that night anyhow, then it's not really taking advantage of you.
But if your W began to go out every night after work, as a statement rather than a question, then that would be cake eating, IMHO.
There are many ways this can show up. But it can also appear very benign and even unnoticeable.
In a way... cake eating could be considered a form of controlling behaviour...
Thanks Kaffe and Happy Easter from this side of the pond!
The 3rd May is a tricky one but she does know I haven't found permanent accommodation and it will be difficult for me to do so: If I am working away and b) if i have the kids on Saturdays. There also isn't much choice in furnished accommodation in my area - we live in a rural small town - and she wants the place to have at least 2 bedrooms so the boys can sleepover. Anyway the die is cast....
Hope for everything and expect nothing....notice the small changes.
Yesterday she filed and buffed my nails!, this morning she brushed my hair!...S4's hair was all over the place so she brushed it and I was standing close by so she started to brush mine in a joking way.
We did our traditional Easter egg hunt in the garden with the boys and she gave me an Easter egg by letting the boys find it in the garden. I kept mine back and presented it to her 10 mins later and she gave a big hug...small changes...
Every night it feels like the Last Supper, she wants to cook me a special meal and this morning she regretted not getting anything in for a special breakfast - something we always used to have a Christmas and Easter.
I realise that a lot of this behaviour is a massive guilt trip on her behalf and I am not expecting anything from it.
One downside is that yesterday I noticed she wasn't wearing her wedding ring and I dont have any real idea how long she hasn't worn it - it could be days weeks or months.
On the upside I has resisted asking her that obvious question -her answer will probably upset me. I refuse to ask the question and i will not feel resentful about it either.
Me49 W45 T15 M13 S11 S8 BD 11/15/11 & 3/27/12 Moved out 4/9/12 Moved back 4/23/12 W working on US 5/20/12 Now Piecing! May-Oct14 drifting Dec 14 W agrees to more QT BD Oct15 ILYBINILWY W filed 1/25/16
It is good to notice the negative changes (at least as perceived by us) as well, as it allows us to notice is something that we have been doing might be having a negative effect so that we can stop doing it.
Of course, if things are getting worse it could also simply be an artefact of them becoming more resolute in their choice to "leave" so results can sometimes be subjective.
Still, more important to notice positive changes because at least that gives us a boost to our esteem and a bit of a motivator... just no expectations, as you know...
Yes, regarding the ring, you just noticed but it could have been off for any length of time... and it could also have been off for any number of reasons. Maybe she is cleaning it. But never mind worrying about it or focusing on its absence.
Just keep on keeping on.
And a jolly good easter to you, mate! Have a pint of chocolate ale for me...
IRT, short for In Regards To... Would you be able to answer that
Yes: W and I went to a 40th Birthday of an acquaintance about 18 months ago and their family was so much in love with each other it made me envious, jealous, and my heart ache. They had 3 kids, 2 of whom sang a beautiful song they had written about mom. Dad also gave a lovely speech about mom and you could see the love between them by their body language.
Unfortunately I didnt have the tools and the knowledge to put my own marriage right before it was too late.
Me49 W45 T15 M13 S11 S8 BD 11/15/11 & 3/27/12 Moved out 4/9/12 Moved back 4/23/12 W working on US 5/20/12 Now Piecing! May-Oct14 drifting Dec 14 W agrees to more QT BD Oct15 ILYBINILWY W filed 1/25/16
It is good to notice the negative changes (at least as perceived by us) as well, as it allows us to notice is something that we have been doing might be having a negative effect so that we can stop doing it.
Of course, if things are getting worse it could also simply be an artefact of them becoming more resolute in their choice to "leave" so results can sometimes be subjective.
Still, more important to notice positive changes because at least that gives us a boost to our esteem and a bit of a motivator... just no expectations, as you know...
Do what works and stop running down cheeseless tunnels
Me49 W45 T15 M13 S11 S8 BD 11/15/11 & 3/27/12 Moved out 4/9/12 Moved back 4/23/12 W working on US 5/20/12 Now Piecing! May-Oct14 drifting Dec 14 W agrees to more QT BD Oct15 ILYBINILWY W filed 1/25/16
