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#2239329 - 04/19/12 11:13 PM Re: I guess I can be here now [Re: ESN]
mmayre16 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 295
Thanks for your concern, guys. I'll talk to my IC about it. It's not to the point where I'm extremely concerned about it (it's weird... it's like there are two people inside me. The T me, and the me-me. The T me sees when there is major cause for concern. It's not there yet, but we're approaching a line that needs to be dealt with in a more serious manner). I promise I will call my doctor by the end of the month if I'm still having these thoughts (I'd really rather not up my medication if possible).

I like the idea of setting a time limit on my anger. I've never viewed it that way before. I forget who brought it up (25, maybe?), but someone asked how my mother dealt with my father's affair and the resulting divorce. Not well. Not well at all. Forgiveness is not her forte. My father is one of the most forgiving people on the planet. My mother is not. She's gotten a lot better, but even now, more than 10 years later, every now and then something will crop up where I think "really? you're still pissed about that?" So, yeah, never really had a good example of how to get over something like that (not that it's an excuse, but someone asked, so there's the answer). 10 years is a LONG time to be pissed off. And then I think of my aunt, who's in her 70s, and I swear she is more angry with my grandmother (who, to my aunt's credit, was a terrible mother and a real looney) now that she's dead (and been dead since 2006) than she was when she was alive. She's still pissed about things that happened when she was a teenager. 50+ years is a REALLY LONG time to be pissed off. There are better things to do with one's time...

I'm not sure what a good time limit is. There's a part of me that fears that once I've given up my anger, and I've come to terms with it, that I will find something new, something worse, and then I will be retraumatized all over again. I almost think it's better to already be in a bad place and hear more bad news and already be in that "well, this situation just generally blows" mindset rather than get my hopes up that this relationship is back on track and have it all blown out of the water again.

Is it unrealistic to set my anger timeline on an event rather than a date? Like, for example, I've never said I wanted baby number 2 at a certain time or a certain date. For me, it's about a milestone (D1 has to be potty trained and follow really basic 1 step instructions reliably). If I had to put an amount of time on how angry I'll be about the stuff that has already happened, I'll say a month. For clarity, we'll say D's birthday. HOWEVER, what do I do when NEW things piss me off (for example, him saying in the past 2 weeks that these past few months were "just trying" and not the real deal)? Because I feel like every time I'm starting to get to the end of being angry, he does some new dumba$$ thing again and then I'm retriggered.

There's been a nice moment of clarity out of all of this recent episode. I've decided that I sincerely do not care where H is or what he is doing or who he is with. If he cheats on me again (emotional, physical or otherwise), I'm done. Out. Finished. And seeing as my whole freaking life is observing behavior, I think I'll know pretty darn quick when something is fishy. And then it won't be hard to find out. And then I'll be done. So it's nice to know that if this situation occurs again, I don't have the whole "oh my God what do I do with this information" aspect to it. I already know. I'll be out.

H tried to complain about some trivial BS last night. I fixed his complaints within an hour and then he was like, "well... that's great... and... thanks for that...." and realized he didn't have a leg to stand on. After D went to bed I said, "I'd like to run some errands without her. I'm going to the grocery store" and then stayed out for 2 hours. I mean, I did run errands, and it was easier without D, but really it was just to be alone and without any time limits or real responsibilities.

I'm not wearing my wedding ring. I purposefully put it next to his cologne. This is kind of big for me. I wore a ring through everything last year. As a sign of me not giving up. I'm trying to make a very strong statement that I am not ok at all with his current actions. He is aware of me not wearing it.

I've not told him I love him in several days. It's not been hard. Not like it was last year.

I don't know how he feels. I try not to concern himself too much with it. I know if I were him, I'd be thinking "she's giving me mixed signals... she takes care of things she knows I care about, but then she doesn't tell me she loves me, and she doesn't wear her ring". Really, I'm uninterested in helping more with keeping the marriage a float until he does the following things:

1. Get a physical with testosterone levels.
2. Take those additional personality tests that our MC recommended
3. Start seeing an IC again.
4. Give me real, measurable, objective goals for finances and health.

Until then, I'm just going to do my thing the best I can. I have a draft for my thesis due tomorrow (which is SO not ready). I have an ARD for a student on Monday (which is SO not ready). We're still living out of boxes and I need to start figuring out what I'm doing for D's birthday. We're supposed to notify our apt in 2 weeks if we plan to stay longer or move out. That can be H's decision. I'm not making that call.

So on to something better... my D. :-) She's sassy and smart, but very sweet. Very happy. She's got strawberry blonde hair and steel blue eyes. She's been taking steps since Valentine's, but only in the past 3 weeks has she really taken off. She knows about 15 words, and some really easy sign language (more, finished, no, potty). She sprouted 4 teeth this weekend (which was a relief... up to that point she only had 1!). She's an excellent sleeper still and loves ALL food except for avocados. She even loves pickles and mustard! She's dramatic. When she's disappointed she throws her head back and arches her back with her arms up to fall to the ground and wails. I ignore her and then she quickly recovers. She screams with delight when she sees stuffed animals (she thought the Easter bunny was the best thing EVER). And she insists on sneaking French kisses from the dog when she thinks I'm not looking. She only watches PBS for TV and LOVES Sesame Street, so I think I'm going to do that as the theme for her birthday party. I think she'll love it.

Alright, I better work on that draft that will so not be ready by tomorrow....
_________________________
Me: 29
H: 31
D: 2
M: 5 years
T: 10 years
ILYBNILWY 2/28/11
I ask for trial separation: 6/3/11
H wants me home: 11/21/11
Found OW emails from 3/11: 3/12
Found pictures from 3/11: 9/12

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#2239368 - 04/20/12 02:14 AM Re: I guess I can be here now [Re: mmayre16]
ESN Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 1566
May, I might respectfully disagree with KD on the anger timeline. I love his advice, always, but I'm going to suggest reading the Chapter on Anger in the book the Language of Emotions. I might have mentioned it before. Anger repressed, no good- anger expressed, no good.

Anger is there to help us learn boundaries and take different actions. This is a huge opportunity for growth for you. Your anger is here to teach you something. Can you trust that?

The book is a bit wordy, but really talks about how to handle anger and that it will come up again and again. Just like any emotion.

It's like saying set a timeline on Joy, or Sadness, or Happiness - one emotion isn't good or bad - they just are. And they have messages. We learn from them. And we heal from them.

I think you're talking about setting boundaries in the rest of your post here, and you sound so much better when you do - stronger, in your power.

You are talking about "if he does this," I will "do this" and that is your boundary. You can be safe there knowing you are "out of here" (which I see as having a healthy limit to someone hurting you and getting away, doing something else, etc. taking care of yourself).

And then you said you can trust yourself in knowing if that happens. Beautiful! You trusting you! You taking care of you! And then detaching "I don't care what he does" - I'm here (but barely (you are detaching for your own sanity) - ring off, etc.) - and I am requesting this - a, b, c.

So now, as far as timelines. What timeframe are you giving him for this list of yours? And what if he doesn't comply?

Also, be careful with the ring off - don't do it for him to change. It's your boundary. It's for you to know your boundary is thicker and you are detached now - not to "show him something" - KWIM?

Okay. You're sounding good!

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#2239369 - 04/20/12 02:17 AM Re: I guess I can be here now [Re: ESN]
ESN Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 1566
P.S., the author of Language of Emotions writes, in the chapter on Anger, that the "internal questions" around anger rising are "What must be protected" and "What must be restored?"

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#2239389 - 04/20/12 03:32 AM Re: I guess I can be here now [Re: mmayre16]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10725
Loc: west coast
Originally Posted By: dueinMay
Thanks for your concern, guys. I'll talk to my IC about it. It's not to the point where I'm extremely concerned about it (it's weird... it's like there are two people inside me. The T me, and the me-me. The T me sees when there is major cause for concern. It's not there yet, but we're approaching a line that needs to be dealt with in a more serious manner). I promise I will call my doctor by the end of the month if I'm still having these thoughts (I'd really rather not up my medication if possible).

I like the idea of setting a time limit on my anger. I've never viewed it that way before.

well It's a goal to work toward with an internal deadline in it. WithIn your timeline
you work on processing the anger so you can let it go.

No one is asking you to repress it. But you can't just hit people either.

And You can always "re-set" it if you are not ready to let go - but it's a start.



I forget who brought it up (25, maybe?), but someone asked how my mother dealt with my father's affair and the resulting divorce. Not well. Not well at all. Forgiveness is not her forte. My father is one of the most forgiving people on the planet. My mother is not. She's gotten a lot better, but even now, more than 10 years later, every now and then something will crop up where I think "really? you're still pissed about that?" So, yeah, never really had a good example of how to get over something like that (not that it's an excuse, but someone asked, so there's the answer).


I asked b/c I know that forgiveness was not something I grew up seeing and so I didn't know what it looked like. I really Don't think my father ever apologized for anything

until he was on his death bed. Then, he had deep remorse. But my mom could not muster up real forgiveness (though she mouthed it to him at the time).

For ME and my siblings (who'd been in T and worked on it), my father expressing remorse and asking for our forgiveness

was actually a watershed, and "Holy" moment in my life and the lives of my siblings.


If you never saw it growing up, as I didn't, it was something I had to learn to do. And it's essential in dealing with the anger,

especially when we feel or cognitively believe -that our anger is justified.


10 years is a LONG time to be pissed off. And then I think of my aunt, who's in her 70s, and I swear she is more angry with my grandmother (who, to my aunt's credit, was a terrible mother and a real looney) now that she's dead (and been dead since 2006) than she was when she was alive. She's still pissed about things that happened when she was a teenager. 50+ years is a REALLY LONG time to be pissed off. There are better things to do with one's time...

well it's clear you need NEW role models for handling anger and learning forgiveness, ...seriously...and are any of those women happy? Content?

OR seething or bitter, etc...permanent victimhood is not what you want and you already know it, which is a start.


I'm not sure what a good time limit is. There's a part of me that fears that once I've given up my anger, and I've come to terms with it, that I will find something new, something worse, and then I will be retraumatized all over again. I almost think it's better to already be in a bad place and hear more bad news and already be in that "well, this situation just generally blows" mindset rather than get my hopes up that this relationship is back on track and have it all blown out of the water again.


^^^It's NOT better. That's a myth and It's negative thinking with the idea that somehow you are "protecting" yourself by assuming the worst. It's really not very rational (you think that having hope for the m somehow increases the chances of something bad happening? Why? B/c God doesn't want you to be happy? B/c you don't deserve it? OR B/C you never saw your mom get over her pain?

AND

it's a big drag to experience b/c you won't "take the risk" of feeling happy (gee that's fun AND healthy for your d...b/c hey, YOU grew up with it...stop the cycle for your d)

AND worst of all, the negativity can create the very event you fear...


Is it unrealistic to set my anger timeline on an event rather than a date? Like, for example, I've never said I wanted baby number 2 at a certain time or a certain date. For me, it's about a milestone (D1 has to be potty trained and follow really basic 1 step instructions reliably). If I had to put an amount of time on how angry I'll be about the stuff that has already happened, I'll say a month. For clarity, we'll say D's birthday.


Are you seriously considering having another child w/this man, at this time?



HOWEVER, what do I do when NEW things piss me off (for example, him saying in the past 2 weeks that these past few months were "just trying" and not the real deal)? Because I feel like every time I'm starting to get to the end of being angry, he does some new dumba$$ thing again and then I'm retriggered.


is it possible you have too many triggers? Or that they are too easily pulled?



There's been a nice moment of clarity out of all of this recent episode. I've decided that I sincerely do not care where H is or what he is doing or who he is with. If he cheats on me again (emotional, physical or otherwise), I'm done. Out. Finished. And seeing as my whole freaking life is observing behavior, I think I'll know pretty darn quick when something is fishy. And then it won't be hard to find out. And then I'll be done. So it's nice to know that if this situation occurs again, I don't have the whole "oh my God what do I do with this information" aspect to it. I already know. I'll be out.



I kind of agree with this^^ IF you don't project negativity into your interactions.

I know that on one hand, DBing is a way of life, holding yourself accountable and really choosing your battles...

but OTOH, I also know that if my h were to experience another round of MLC or whatever it was, or if there were an affair, I'd be done and not look back b/c there are some protective boundaries I have and need.

I find that feels safer to me and MAYBE a tad "empowering" (not sure if that's the word I want, but for now it'll do).

But I'm more & more optimistic about our future, and I let a lot more slide b/c most of the stuff I whined about was me sweating the small stuff b/c most of it IS SMALL...not worth conflict.

There will always be annoying things in each of us. Somehow I'm more able to see those traits in my h as idiosyncrasies/eccentricities, rather than flaws. And he seems to be doing that with me more too.

I won't say it's "unconditional love" b/c we all have some conditions...if our partner treats us badly enough for long enough, WE LEAVE...



H tried to complain about some trivial BS last night. I fixed his complaints within an hour and then he was like, "well... that's great... and... thanks for that...." and realized he didn't have a leg to stand on.


why bother interacting like that^^ at all? Why engage in it if it's silly?

I mean were you doing something significantly bad, dangerous, annoying, mean, damaging, etc??
May, it just sounds like a lot of score keeping and that is a big drain...



After D went to bed I said, "I'd like to run some errands without her. I'm going to the grocery store" and then stayed out for 2 hours. I mean, I did run errands, and it was easier without D, but really it was just to be alone and without any time limits or real responsibilities.

I'm not wearing my wedding ring. I purposefully put it next to his cologne. This is kind of big for me. I wore a ring through everything last year. As a sign of me not giving up. I'm trying to make a very strong statement that I am not ok at all with his current actions. He is aware of me not wearing it.


Not sure why you can't just say that you are not happy with his current actions. Surely he knows that by now. What is your real point here? That you will leave him IF HE doesn't shape up?


I've not told him I love him in several days. It's not been hard. Not like it was last year.


And the point in withholding your love or expressions of it is what? To make him miss the relationship that isn't loving? I mean, May...you know better.

you still have not answered that question about what is different now than in November, substantively...not when you found out but when it happened...

I don't know how he feels. I try not to concern himself too much with it. I know if I were him, I'd be thinking "she's giving me mixed signals... she takes care of things she knows I care about, but then she doesn't tell me she loves me, and she doesn't wear her ring". Really, I'm uninterested in helping more with keeping the marriage a float until he does the following things:

1. Get a physical with testosterone levels.
2. Take those additional personality tests that our MC recommended

what will YOU do if he gets a diagnosis? What is this for? You think HE will do something to work on it IF a diagnosis is given? AND If Not?


3. Start seeing an IC again.
4. Give me real, measurable, objective goals for finances and health.

May I assume YOU would have to buy into the goals?

And is this b/c you want to disarm his arsenal b/c deep down, you fear he'll never think you are good enough and you want to make sure that
this will "prove" it's HIM, not you?


Until then, I'm just going to do my thing the best I can. I have a draft for my thesis due tomorrow (which is SO not ready). I have an ARD for a student on Monday (which is SO not ready). We're still living out of boxes and I need to start figuring out what I'm doing for D's birthday. We're supposed to notify our apt in 2 weeks if we plan to stay longer or move out. That can be H's decision. I'm not making that call.

So on to something better... my D. :-) She's sassy and smart, but very sweet. Very happy. She's got strawberry blonde hair and steel blue eyes. She's been taking steps since Valentine's, but only in the past 3 weeks has she really taken off. She knows about 15 words, and some really easy sign language (more, finished, no, potty). She sprouted 4 teeth this weekend (which was a relief... up to that point she only had 1!). She's an excellent sleeper still and loves ALL food except for avocados. She even loves pickles and mustard! She's dramatic. When she's disappointed she throws her head back and arches her back with her arms up to fall to the ground and wails. I ignore her and then she quickly recovers. She screams with delight when she sees stuffed animals (she thought the Easter bunny was the best thing EVER). And she insists on sneaking French kisses from the dog when she thinks I'm not looking. She only watches PBS for TV and LOVES Sesame Street, so I think I'm going to do that as the theme for her birthday party. I think she'll love it.

Alright, I better work on that draft that will so not be ready by tomorrow....


(((( ))))
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

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#2239417 - 04/20/12 06:25 AM Re: I guess I can be here now [Re: 25yearsmlc]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
You sound good and positively focused again, DIM.

ESN, I'm good with your question about timelines for emotions. Yes, that is not a standard method as emotions do eb and flow and never occur one at a time.

Without hijacking DIM's thread on this, it was my guess that DIM was in distress and her outlet was anger based expression... when the underlying emotion was NOT anger... so by clearly focusing on the anger emotion, the person in distress sits with it for a moment and goes... hang on... I'm not really angry...

hope that makes sense. I'd love to see you start a new thread for yourself ESN and learn where you're at and have some dialogue on this stuff. I'd love to know what you've been up to and learning. cool

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#2239446 - 04/20/12 12:37 PM Re: I guess I can be here now [Re: ~ kd ~]
ESN Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 1566
KD, I get it - though I do think she's angry. I thought that zillions of posts ago and everyone came down on me. I'm just going to hold steady on that hunch. And suggest she read from this book. It is powerful and even address that anger can be the emotion (that there doesn't always have to be something underlying).

I'm sure there could be fear there - fear of loss, fear of facing self, taking ownership, responsibility, growing up, etc. (not saying these are true for DIM, just examples) but I think the anger is a powerful teacher and it especially comes in handy around setting boundaries - which I believe May could use - a boundary inside which she can work out her anger (without that kind of expression of it) and ask herself "what needs to be restored" "What needs to be protected"

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#2239468 - 04/20/12 03:06 PM Re: I guess I can be here now [Re: ESN]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Where does anger come from, ESN? I mean the underlying condition?

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#2239487 - 04/20/12 05:03 PM Re: I guess I can be here now [Re: ~ kd ~]
figgeroni Online
Member

Registered: 10/26/09
Posts: 951
awesome post 25!!!

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#2239508 - 04/20/12 06:47 PM Re: I guess I can be here now [Re: figgeroni]
ESN Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 1566
KD, I see where you're going, but I'm talking from a perspective of processing anger in a healthy way - not whether it should exist or for how long. Letting it be the helpful emotion that it is - the alert to "I need to set a boundary here" and "What needs to be protected/restored" b/c that's how, I believe, anger can be used in healthy ways and move through us (not get stuck, explode or repressed). If it sounded like May were processing her anger in a healthy way, then maybe this wouldn't be a point to make here, but since she attached her husband and is having trouble understanding if she should or shouldn't be angry or thinking maybe her husband is avoiding her b/c of her anger, I think it could be helpful to her to use her anger as a helpful tool to see what she needs and how she can communicate that - that's what anger *can* teach us if used well. Does that make sense? (I don't want to get into a discussion and hijack to much - just clarify my intentions with post about this) of course, DIM will do whatever she wants! I'm just putting it out there.

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#2239518 - 04/20/12 07:38 PM Re: I guess I can be here now [Re: ESN]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10725
Loc: west coast
I think we're beating a dead horse.

May said her anger is a problem. She knew it might be.

We all know she's angry. There is no dispute about that.

NOW it's a question of what to do with it today. And what NOT to do.
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

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