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#2239796 - 04/22/12 01:32 AM Re: Hoping my marriage can be saved :( [Re: paige40]
Maggie3 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 157
Had a great time!!! When conversation would turn to him I'd keep it light then change the subject. Had an "epiphany" in the church-what if when we do meet I am very firm with him and just say "listen, I don't fully agree with divorce, especially with no efforts towards reconciliation so we are doing marriage counseling, you're moving back in and you're making an effort to work on this" when we meet in a few weeks, or even better in yet another month if I can push it back. I think it would be a 180 as I tend to be pretty easy going/ indecisive and I know that bugs him.
_________________________
Me-32
H-31
M-1yr, 9mos/T-6.5yrs
No kids, 3 pets
H estranged father passes away- 8/11
Bomb- 1/15/12
Began LRT- 4/1/12

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#2239927 - 04/22/12 09:04 PM Re: Hoping my marriage can be saved :( [Re: Maggie3]
Maggie3 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 157
Journaling

Thought of, and wrote down, a list of things to do this summer without my H. Summer vacation is just 7 weeks away and I feel anxious about all the time I'll be spending alone while not working and having my husband not living here. Usually this is when we start making our summer plans too, so thats been on my mind. I have 2 teacher friends that live close by but one is away all summer and the other will be very pregnant. I plan on taking 2 classes towards another degree this summer and am going to look for some fun crafting type classes.
_________________________
Me-32
H-31
M-1yr, 9mos/T-6.5yrs
No kids, 3 pets
H estranged father passes away- 8/11
Bomb- 1/15/12
Began LRT- 4/1/12

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#2239942 - 04/22/12 09:46 PM Re: Hoping my marriage can be saved :( [Re: Maggie3]
Maggie3 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 157
More Journaling

I'm still trying to figure out the major issues in our relationship,and how to do 180s. I am struggling with this since he was all over the place in each of our relationship talks, and eventually I would just start crying or get mad and never fully listened. I've been mostly dark still- but we have had more communication lately, though it's purely strategic (bill paying, pet stuff, dividing up the weeks we volunteer so we don't both show up). I haven't seen him since the end of March. I don't want to have any relationship talks right now either- I'm finally feeling better and more confident and still want time to do my work and for him to hopefully get his head on straight. These are the issues we had, as I see them. I'm sure most of these would be what he would say (or has said) but some are from me reflecting. I'd love any advice on 180s and am including what Im doing (though again we don't talk or see each other so I can't tell if they are working).

Issue/ my 180

Lack of sex (I think this was an issue for both of us- he wanted more but wasnt making me feel desired/ desirable) / while he was still living here I sent him a few seductive texts, initiated, etc but eventually told him I felt he was using me which was making me feel bad about myself

Nagging regarding housework (this has been an issue for awhile- I tried other strategies without success such as leaving lists, having a list in a cabinet, starting projects for him to jump in on, I even asked him to go out with friends on Saturday mornings so I at least wouldn't get mad watching him sit around while I cleaned the house). I think one issue is we both keep score. Another issue according to him is that I never notice the things he does do, which is true. Also, I like things done on my timeline and he tends to move slowly. Since he is no longer living here I try to thank him when he does come by and do work- or I'll text him a compliment on something he has done. This one is really hard to work on without him here but I'd say it's our biggest fight producer (really was the only thing we ever fought about cosistently).

Nosiness- lack of privacy (on my part)- when he would leave his email/fb logged in or his phone around I would tend to look- more because I'm nosy than that I didn't trust him. He always made jokes about it so I didn't think it really bothered him. But this has come up repeatedly in our talks. I also think he was so angry because he had been texting with this coworker (a woman but not an OW- I think he was using her to get the attention he'd normally get from me). Then I found about the texts with the potentially becoming an OW coworker of his (who I don't know and had never heard of until her number began appearing on our phone bill)./ my 180 is I got my own phone plan so cannot see who he calls/texts but this was because he called me a "stalker" when i confronted him not because my decision to stop invading his privacy. Since we no longer live together I have no other ways of invading his privacy - I don't know any of his passwords and he quit fb (potential OW was also his friend on fb and I wrote a childish comment on his page for her to see when I found out he was talking to her). I've done some damage pre reading DB. I guess I can't really say I've made a 180 with this bc if I could get into his email I know I would go in and read them- even though this invades his privacy and could potentially hurt me but I don't know how to stop being a nosey person! Would love some advice with this.

He complained I never went out with friends anymore or that I always had people here and never left the house/ I told him this was for financial reasons (my hours had been cut at work and i bought a new car that he was supposed to be helping me pay for/ I've been going out with friends a lot. He is also giving me spending money so I can go out but if he stops I will continue and just find free things to do with friends.

Complaining about work/ I stopped eating in the staff room (gossip) and try to nip conversations with coworkers in the bud when I can tell they are negative/ complaining. I've told a few close coworkers that I'm trying to rid my life of negativity to help (my one close coworker is the most negative and I feel like I was turning into her!) I'm trying to focus on the things I love about my job.
_________________________
Me-32
H-31
M-1yr, 9mos/T-6.5yrs
No kids, 3 pets
H estranged father passes away- 8/11
Bomb- 1/15/12
Began LRT- 4/1/12

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#2240118 - 04/23/12 02:21 PM Re: Hoping my marriage can be saved :( [Re: Maggie3]
Maggie3 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 157
Yet more journaling

Started a new audio book today on the way to work. I think it's called How Full is your Bucket. It's pretty interesting- basically saying we fill up our buckets through positive interactions with people, both where we are treated positively and where we treat positively. It was saying they authors studied couples in their first year of marriage and predicted the ones that would stay married because they had a 5-1 positive to negative ratio. Ten years later they had been 94% right. I think I am a pretty positive person (I'm always smiling, look on the bright side, etc) but had definitely got in a rut the past 6 months- I think partially do to my husbands attitude (the change after his father died), plus financial stress, being upset that my hours had been cut at work though my workload hadn't, etc. I would definitely say my husband had that 5-1, though maybe it had felt like less more recently. I feel upset that if that is a factor why couldn't he stay with me through my rough 6 months when he had seen me as positive for the past 6 years? Why didn't he see this was a rut I was in? Our last fight (4/1) I said this to him. Told him He was being a fair weather friend. I guess these are the things that make me think there is something much deeper at work (depression in him? MLC at 31? Not wanting to have an awful marriage like his parents did?) he has always had anxiety issues- whenever he'd get stressed he would think he had cancer because of a headache or something- and he would go crazy looking things up on webmd. He says I was never supportive during these episodes (I honestly didn't know how to be- didn't want to encourage him so I'd downplay things- this is how I was raised- if you're sick go to bed but don't keep complaining). In hindsight I guess I should have been more compassionate but I was never mean about these things- just downplayed them- and would point out what I believed to be a stressor causing it. Anyways- I wonder about depression but then he seems to be fine going out with his friends, etc. Our mutual friend met up with him a month ago and she said he didn't seem depressed to her. I don't know enough about depression to have a clear view. I know I shouldn't keep looking for the "why" since that already happened and I should just move on with fixing myself and GAL but I can't stop trying to figure things out.
_________________________
Me-32
H-31
M-1yr, 9mos/T-6.5yrs
No kids, 3 pets
H estranged father passes away- 8/11
Bomb- 1/15/12
Began LRT- 4/1/12

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#2240126 - 04/23/12 02:39 PM Re: Hoping my marriage can be saved :( [Re: Maggie3]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10285
Loc: west coast
Maggie

first thing, I cannot read your thread without taking a lot of time b/c it's ONE LONG narrative.

I'm not criticizing you - I'm saying to break it up into small paragraphs b/c it's much easier to read.

When I try to scroll down your page it jumps and I lose my place too easily. So please break up the paragraphs, okay?


Now I'm going to read your thread but can already feel it will take a lot longer.

Here we go...
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

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#2240151 - 04/23/12 03:36 PM Re: Hoping my marriage can be saved :( [Re: Maggie3]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10285
Loc: west coast
Originally Posted By: Maggie3
More Journaling

I'm still trying to figure out the major issues in our relationship,and how to do 180s. I am struggling with this since he was all over the place in each of our relationship talks, and eventually I would just start crying or get mad and never fully listened.

180 #1 is to CALM down when you expect a conversation of any type, to come up. IF an anti-anxiety med is required for this, take it. Do NOT blow these chances to gather information from your h. YOU need not decide anything. But learn where is he coming from at least at that moment in time.

Consider it a "recon mission" as Seal Team 6 would say...

Listen to him, making eye contact as much as possible. Re-cap what you think he said, just to verify that he said what you thought. IF you are not sure what something means, ask him to elaborate. Make NO judgements about this information.

IF he expects or asks you for a reaction, do NOT react. Thank him for his honesty and tell him you need time to process the information...and then go unless you think there's more to say on HIS end.

#2 180
YOU SAY NOTHING for now. You just LISTEN...it's a 180 AND it's information that you need anyhow.


I've been mostly dark still- but we have had more communication lately, though it's purely strategic (bill paying, pet stuff, dividing up the weeks we volunteer so we don't both show up). I haven't seen him since the end of March. I don't want to have any relationship talks right now either- I'm finally feeling better and more confident and still want time to do my work and for him to hopefully get his head on straight. These are the issues we had, as I see them. I'm sure most of these would be what he would say (or has said) but some are from me reflecting. I'd love any advice on 180s and am including what Im doing (though again we don't talk or see each other so I can't tell if they are working).

Issue/ my 180

Lack of sex (I think this was an issue for both of us- he wanted more but wasnt making me feel desired/ desirable) / while he was still living here I sent him a few seductive texts, initiated, etc but eventually told him I felt he was using me which was making me feel bad about myself

So he wanted to have more sex, and you said he had to make you feel more desirable and THEN you would have more sex.

So, you attached conditions to whether you'd make love, which I'm guessing is how HE felt connected to you. And it may have felt like a lot of rejection to him, often and over time...

Why did you tell him you felt HE was using you and that he "made" you "feel bad" about yourself? Is that another reason for you not to have sex?

This issue is not a small one to him. You rejected him a lot. So IF you think YOU felt undesired, imagine how HE felt?



Nagging regarding housework (this has been an issue for awhile
- I tried other strategies without success such as leaving lists, having a list in a cabinet, starting projects for him to jump in on, I even asked him to go out with friends on Saturday mornings so I at least wouldn't get mad watching him sit around while I cleaned the house). I think one issue is we both keep score.


Scorekeeping prevents happiness in ALL marriages.

#3 180 Lose the scorecard.

First off, he has his own scorecard b/c we each look at the world with our own lenses.
On HIS scorecard, you are way behind b/c he thinks he works hard and that you have rejected him so much and that you criticize him too much and you spy on him, denying him basic privacy.

(Make no mistake. NAGGING = CRITICISM).
As for housework, another option is to hire a housekeeper and let HIM see the bill for it. IF he has no problem with buying it, then let him.

Does he think this really is YOUR job, as a woman? IF so, that needs addressing.

Again , lose the scorecard...stay in the NOW.

Don't re-hash the past or try to relive all the traumas of the past. You two don't have to see your history identically as long as you both learn what not to do, from this day forward.

Make sense?


issue according to him is that I never notice the things he does do, which is true.


#4 180
Then "applaud loudly for the 1% of positives he does" and be sincere about it. This will make him feel better about the r, and might undermine his negative images that he uses to justify leaving...



Also, I like things done on my timeline and he tends to move slowly.


What? Who says YOUR timeline is his? Why do you determine when things MUST be done? This sounds like control on your end. What do you think?



Since he is no longer living here I try to thank him when he does come by and do work- or I'll text him a compliment on something he has done. This one is really hard to work on without him here but I'd say it's our biggest fight producer (really was the only thing we ever fought about cosistently).


meaning you not complimenting or appreciating him? See any pattern?

Keep up the compliments and simple "thank you"s for the things he does, even if it's by text.

Unless he asked you not to call, I prefer if you call him to thank him, and THEN GET OFF THE PHONE first, while wishing him a good day, etc...

so it does not come across as anything but him hearing your voice in a nice positive tone. Not pursuit. Always be the one to end the conversation. NO expectations attach to this.

consistent change + sufficient time = change he can believe in.

Do this in at least 90 day increments, so you don't bother monitoring for results too early.


Nosiness- lack of privacy (on my part)- when he would leave his email/fb logged in or his phone around I would tend to look- more because I'm nosy than that I didn't trust him.

#5 180

STOP SNOOPING.

Okay for ME that^^^ is almost a dealbreaker all by itself. It would truly bother me DEEPLY if my h did this...that's all I can say.

I tell my sisters and bff's things I do NOT want my h to know that usually have nothing to do with h. But I'll share those thoughts with him IF & WHEN I WANT
TO...

If my h kept up the snooping, I'd want him to get counselling

and if it kept up we might be done...

You MUST CHANGE THIS for this relationship - and for any others you may someday have. IT's NOT OKAY.

You're "just Nosy"? Come on. You sound like a teenage girl when you say it. If its trust - then examine THAT....


He always made jokes about it so I didn't think it really bothered him. But this has come up repeatedly in our talks.



Then YES it DID bother him and you're lucky he was so patient about it that he tried to reach you with jokes...LISTEN TO THIS.- change it asap



I also think he was so angry because he had been texting with this coworker (a woman but not an OW- I think he was using her to get the attention he'd normally get from me).

b/c you were ignoring him or what? Is this how you two related for your r?


Then I found about the texts with the potentially becoming an OW coworker of his (who I don't know and had never heard of until her number began appearing on our phone bill)./ my 180 is I got my own phone plan so cannot see who he calls/texts but this was because he called me a "stalker" when i confronted him not because my decision to stop invading his privacy. Since we no longer live together I have no other ways of invading his privacy - I don't know any of his passwords and he quit fb

Good. Don't stalk him and stop invading his privacy (it's NOT ok) unless it's a financial issue YOU are legally entitled to knowing.

In some ways he may feel pushed into the arms of the OW. Sorry but that is how I'D feel.




(potential OW was also his friend on fb and I wrote a childish comment on his page for her to see when I found out he was talking to her).

(SIGH)... frown what were you thinking? IT never looks bad for the OW, just for the wife.

I know this b/c my high school class has a fb page and some wife posted on it blasting a classmate for "stealing" her h. I'm the admin for the class page and 2 people unrelated to the sitch, called me to delete the post from the w which i did.

Its not the place for HER bitterness to show up and what I find interesting is that NO ONE thought well of the wife for posting it.

Some people reached out to OW to see if her feelings were hurt. Others just thought the wife was "nutty" and think her h is probably justified for leaving her.

How does that make you feel?

I hope you'll learn from this b/c it's a myth that LBSers buy into. That by "exposing" something they are hurt by and involving other unrelated people, they think they'll find allies.

I've never seen that help a w or lbs h.

so #6 180 is NO MORE EXPOSING TO 3RD PARTIES...

you want to keep the road home, paved & smooth...


dont' make it harder to come back for him than it already will be.



I've done some damage pre reading DB. I guess I can't really say I've made a 180 with this bc if I could get into his email I know I would go in and read them- even though this invades his privacy and could potentially hurt me but I don't know how to stop being a nosey person! Would love some advice with this.

IF my above comments don't help you stop being nosy (as if it's a tiny quirk of yours)

let me say it's not you "being nosy". It's rude, it's weird, It's you being out of control b/c you want control and it's a dangerous obsession you have.

You would do it anyhow KNOWING it would hurt your m and YOU...that's NOT a healthy behavior nor is it you "just being nosy".

It means you lack the discipline to stop yourself from doing what you KNOW is harmful to your m.

Knock it off. Or at least don't minimize it.


He complained I never went out with friends anymore or that I always had people here and never left the house/
I told him this was for financial reasons (my hours had been cut at work and i bought a new car that he was supposed to be helping me pay for/ I've been going out with friends a lot. He is also giving me spending money so I can go out but if he stops I will continue and just find free things to do with friends.


Good...
Stop arguing with him about why you do what you do. Change it or accept it.

In this ^^ situation it sounds like a change on your end is needed.

See, When we revolve around our spouses, which is what it looks like if we do when we never go anywhere, it makes us look as if we bring little to the table...except for our needs.

And when our needs are not met by our spouses (which is NOT their job. It's OUR job to make ourselves happy)

we tend to retreat from the spouse, which makes it even harder for them to reach out to us. IT's a cycle that is being perpetuated by your behaviors.

Change yourself and the dynanmic will change.


Complaining about work/ I stopped eating in the staff room (gossip) and try to nip conversations with coworkers in the bud when I can tell they are negative/ complaining. I've told a few close coworkers that I'm trying to rid my life of negativity to help (my one close coworker is the most negative and I feel like I was turning into her!) I'm trying to focus on the things I love about my job.


having an upbeat attitude about life, being a contented person, and

acting happy, is attractive.
Yes you can "fake it til you make it" BC merely acting happy still attracts better things to you in life.

Being a swirling vortex of negativity, (which is easy to become when that is what you are surrounded by), is a drag.

Makes those around you feel as if you are circling the drain AND pulling them down with you, like your co=worker is doing to you. And as your h fears you will do to him...

I think your h showed a healthy streak in this scenario, by asking you to stop being negative around him. Good for him.

Maybe you can compliment him for showing you what to do with that co-worker b/c you "get it" now...he was right.

Gossiping is rarely focussed on a happy event, like the "coming raise" or "happy office relationship".

It tends to solely focus on the negative AND it sounds bitchy and no one finds it attractive. Sorry.

I think THIS trait is mandatory for you to change.

Many of these traits you've bravely recognized, NEED to change so

YOU can be a happier and healthier person regardless of what happens with your h...

180 #7

is to

Be the most upbeat happy and increasingly self confident KIND WOMAN you can be. Be your best self.

Become a woman only a fool would leave.

Period.
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

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#2240167 - 04/23/12 04:13 PM Re: Hoping my marriage can be saved :( [Re: 25yearsmlc]
Maggie3 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 157
Will do!
_________________________
Me-32
H-31
M-1yr, 9mos/T-6.5yrs
No kids, 3 pets
H estranged father passes away- 8/11
Bomb- 1/15/12
Began LRT- 4/1/12

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#2240182 - 04/23/12 05:14 PM Re: Hoping my marriage can be saved :( [Re: Maggie3]
scaredsilly Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 1219
my gosh, 25 is so smart and wise...and right!
_________________________
M:63
H:53
S:41, SS:28, SS:25, SD:23
M:15
T:16

Bomb:12/17/11, "I think we should go our separate ways."
H moves to his mother's house, 4/1/12
12/21/12: H moves back home, piecing


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#2240541 - 04/24/12 09:58 PM Re: Hoping my marriage can be saved :( [Re: scaredsilly]
Maggie3 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 157
I wrote a response yesterday and it still has not posted. Could I be back on moderation?
_________________________
Me-32
H-31
M-1yr, 9mos/T-6.5yrs
No kids, 3 pets
H estranged father passes away- 8/11
Bomb- 1/15/12
Began LRT- 4/1/12

Top
#2241029 - 04/26/12 05:24 PM Re: Hoping my marriage can be saved :( [Re: Maggie3]
Maggie3 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 157
JOURNALING

Some days feel so much harder than others. Today I felt very sad and often would just have a thought of "I DON'T GET IT!". Our 1 month of planned not communicating/seeing each other is coming to an end. I have been feeling very anxious about it. I'm guessing it's partly because I don't want to hear what he has to say in terms of my assuming he will want to move things along with a D. My counselor suggested I email my H and tell him I'd like to put it off and continue to concentrate on myself and my healing. I wrote this email a few days ago but have yet to send it. I'm wondering if I should wait until he contacts me about meeting or if I should send it? I welcome any feedback.

Hi ______,
I hope everything is going well with you. I know we had said we would meet up after a month and figure out our next steps, and May 1 is just around the corner. I was writing to see if you would be willing to push that date back. I have been really taking advantage of this time to heal and reflect and focus on myself. I have been really enjoying the time and don't feel quite ready to meet up and make moves/ decisions quite yet, but totally understand if you would like to. I just feel as though my spirit has lifted and I don't want to do anything which may cause me to lose my focus at this point. I hope this makes sense to you. And obviously you are always welcome here- just let me know and I can leave so you can visit (pets) or whatever.
_________________________
Me-32
H-31
M-1yr, 9mos/T-6.5yrs
No kids, 3 pets
H estranged father passes away- 8/11
Bomb- 1/15/12
Began LRT- 4/1/12

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