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Grumpy,

How do you handle this when W brings it up? Listen and walk away? My W is convinced that my 180's are a temporary thing to get her to stay.

SIW


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How do you handle this when W brings it up? Listen and walk away? My W is convinced that my 180's are a temporary thing to get her to stay.

Validate...do not offer excuses. She is scared and she will be scared until she isn't. Just keep being the best "you" that you can. Patience...

learn from my mistakes, lol..


Me: 44
Bomb: 11/27/11
Divorced:6/12
Life goes on: 6/13


Dogs still like bacon...a lot.
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GM,

Thank you, I have been doing that. Regardless of what happens I think I will be left with more patience than I have ever had.

SIW


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Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
I can't do this anymore! I really can't!

========================

When my W has a C who says things like:

"Divorce is not only a healthy choice for you, but also a healthy choice for 2TP and the kids"

"You don't have to make any decisions or have any conversations today"


What other choice do I have but to throw in the towel? I can't intervene because I am the LBS who has a vested interest in a different outcome. I have no credibility when it comes to suggesting she see a different C because I am the LBS. I can't even have a discussion about this topic because of my W's medical condition. So what other choice do I have?


You prove her C wrong.. not by words but by actions. You talk.. alot. I had that problem too.. but you can't talk your wife in or out of anything.. talking won't solve the problems.

So show her that D is not a healthy choice! How do you do that? What's your gameplan?


Originally Posted By: 2thepoint

I suppose I can hang on and continue to support my W during her rehabilitation, all the while knowing that she will move forward with D when she is healed.


Why? I mean you have asked her how you can help.. but I don't really see her asking to much. She's not asking you to support her, yet here you are...

Originally Posted By: 2thepoint

Or I could drop the rope today and feel guilty for the rest of my life for abandoning my W during this medical crisis of hers.



I understand this feeling and it took me a long time to see past my own fog.

You're not abandoning your w... because she isn't asking you to be there.

You need to let her live her own life, you need to let her feel her the consequences (both good and bad) of her actions.

and if you TRULY feel guilty.. than be there for her.. and put the D aside.. COMPLETELY.

Her health and your D have nothing to do with one another. They are separate.. treat them as such.


Originally Posted By: 2thepoint

My W went to see her C today and when she returned she looked pretty bummed out. She said she wasn't feeling good and cancelled for a second time, lunch with an acquaintance who has shown considerable concern about my W's health.

We got to talking and she is just really tired and confused all the time. We both think that the medication she is on (beta blockers and ace inhibitors) is what's causing her to experience these symptoms. She is also very emotional and can't really pinpoint what brings on the emotions.

I asked her if she thought maybe she should be seeing a psychiatrist or different C to help her through this rough period in her life. She says no, her C has a few Dr. friends who she has been sharing information about my W's condition with and they seem to think these symptoms are normal based upon what has occurred.

As we were talking I asked her about her text to me while I was in Spain, The one where she was asking me to tell her about everything related to her hospital stay and medical condition. She said that she is just now starting to realize just how sick she was and needs to understand everything about the ordeal.

She said her C was wondering if there might be some things I was holding back from telling her. WTF!?! Why would I hold anything back related to her health and why would she even think that?

So we continued to talk and I validated as best as I could where appropriate. She tells me she needs a massage, wants to smell the scents and needs to feel hands kneading her muscles. Sensing an opportunity to flirt a little, I offer to give her a massage but disclose that I am not nearly as good as a professional masseuse but my rates are low. wink She smiled and said she might consider it and then we moved on to other topics.

We talked about how tired she is and I asked her very specifically; "I know I have told you I am willing to help you in any way you need, but is there anything specific you could use help with?" She then asked if I would pick S10 up from school every day and if I would handle taking the kids to their sporting practices each week. I said I would and she seemed pleased.

I then offered to bring her lunch which she accepted and that was the end of the conversation.

=======================

So W is not really in any condition to have deep conversations about our R, yet she has conversations with her C who seems to be pushing her towards a D and claiming how "healthy" it would be for everyone.

When W first dropped the bomb but before I moved out, we were both miserable, you could almost see the tension in the air, and my W was on the verge of a nervous breakdown. If you read back to my early posts you'll see what I am saying to be true.

Today however with the passage of time, the anger and resentment seems to have faded...almost entirely. We get along, we don't fight, we cooperate, we laugh, we go to kids sporting events together, we share meals on occasion, etc. Does any of this sound like we need a "healthy dose of divorce?"

I really think that my W's C is steering her in the wrong direction. And there isn't a damn thing I can do about it!

I am so lost and I really don't think I can do this anymore!


I still see pursuit here. I still see you trying to "fix" the situation.

And fixing is tiresome.. especially when you are hitting a wall.

Shine that spotlight back on you 2. Busto gave you alot to think about before you left for Spain.

How can you move forward. Not with your w or your m, but with improving yourself and becoming a man that only a fool would leave?

((( )))


M(f): 40
D'ed: 8/12

Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.

Love at all costs because you are loved well.
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Originally Posted By: 2
I suppose I can hang on and continue to support my W during her rehabilitation, all the while knowing that she will move forward with D when she is healed.

Or I could drop the rope today and feel guilty for the rest of my life for abandoning my W during this medical crisis of hers.


It's not the caring part that does you in. It is the expectations that you place on what you do, that does you in.

I think you are still expecting her to change, based on what you do today.

In actuality, it is what you consistently do today, that can slowly change her mind. With each today, it gives you hope of the future, not a promise of the future.

The counselor ? There is nothing you can do about it. That is her choice, and you should honor it.

Any attempt to change that would be viewed as manipulative on your part.

Would you rather have her choose to come home ? Or feel she has to come home....

To me, that is you trying to control the outcome, through her counselor.


The reason you are feeling worn out, is because you are running on emotion again.

With time, even the hardest of stone can wear when it is rubbed against itself. The same thing happens when you rub your emotions against hers.

Nobody is telling you that you have to stop loving your wife. Nobody is telling you that you have to give up on your dream of a future with her.

Dude, you have been DBing for ..7 ? months ????

You didn't get to this place overnight, and you aren't going to get out of it overnight.

You aren't going to talk your way out of anything that you acted your way into.....

You are looking too far into the future , and expecting this to be a guarantee.

The only guarantee I can make you, is that in a few years, this will all be over for you....one way or another. And that you will be a Father , and a man that is capable of being a loving partner. A man that makes great decisions, and has the self awareness to allow his partner to find their way in life. So that they can walk beside you...not in front, or behind you.

Ask any woman if she would like that....

It is your call if you are ready to hang 'em up. I can't do anything about that.

This song , by The Byrds, kept me propped up through some pretty rough nights......

And I hope you can gain something as well....

The words are adapted from the book of Ecclesiastes

To everything, turn, turn, turn.
There is a season, turn, turn, turn.
And a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to be born, a time to die.
A time to plant, a time to reap.
A time to kill, a time to heal.
A time to laugh, a time to weep.

To everything, turn, turn, turn.
There is a season, turn, turn, turn.
And a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to build up, a time to break down.
A time to dance, a time to mourn.
A time to cast away stones.
A time to gather stones together.

To everything, turn, turn, turn.
There is a season, turn, turn, turn.
And a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time of love, a time of hate.
A time of war, a time of peace.
A time you may embrace.
A time to refrain from embracing.

To everything, turn, turn, turn.
There is a season, turn, turn, turn.
And a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to gain, a time to lose.
A time to rend, a time to sow.
A time for love, a time for hate.
A time for peace, I swear it's not too late

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And what Val said too....^^^^^

( Didn't mean to cover you up Val..)

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T2 - it should be mandatory for all of us to read these two posts (Val & Mach) every day!

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Agreed^^^^^


Me- 34 W-33
S15 S10 S6
Married- 11 Together- 18
Bomb- 6-2011
WAW moves out- 8-2011

"Nothing in the Universe can stop you from letting go and starting over at anytime"- Guy Finley
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2tp,

I double ditto the above as well (Rick, Valeska, Mach and sias's ditto). And re-read some of our exchanges that began with my msgs to you ca. 3/11. You are still (or again) pursuing in trying to sway (control) your W's mindset. "Giving" with the expectation that she may change her mind or see the new 2pac. It is emotionally exhausting and unhealthy for both of you to do so.

And think back to what your C told you (and what I've been trying to tell you). When you do actions things contrary to your W's stated or implicit wishes, you are invalidating her. All of your acts of pursuit are invalidating your W's stated wish not to be with you as a married couple. Do you really want to keep invalidating her? You respect her most by accepting her decision to be apart from you at face value. It is the most loving and selfless thing to do.

Re: the C -- you can't control what the C says or does, and I know it [censored] to hear those sorts of things. I heard similar. In fact, I remember my W relating to me how her C told her in these words, YOU HAVE TO GET OUT OF THAT TOXIC ENVIRONMENT WITH YOUR H. IT IS SO UNHEALTHY FOR BOTH OF YOU TO BE THERE. YOU NEED TO MOVE OUT **NOW**, WHAT IS TAKING YOU SO LONG? YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN MOVED OUT WEEKS AGO. This was early in our sitch (just after the bomb and in the month before she moved out).

My W's C was TOTALLY validating how my W felt -- that she needed to get away from her H, that I was the source of her misery. And the toxic environment she was referring to was me trying to influence my W to stay, through various acts of pursuit, giving, offers, melty man. She was indubitably on my W's side (and I was not).

I saw my W's C as "the enemy" and if I could control who she was seeing as C, perhaps things might be better. Luckily, I addressed my anxiety about this (which is what is the real issue now with you 2pac) instead of trying to act on it. One day, her C told me to give my W space (I was in the waiting room to see my own C), to GIVE HER ALL THE SPACE SHE NEEDED and that she was "pulling for each of us." I was very confused to hear this based on what my W had told me, and I thought I was giving her all kinds of space at that time, not calling her, etc.. When, in reality, I was still pursuing in my actions when I did see her, in "acts of service", "giving", etc.

It was when I genuinely gave my W ALL THE SPACE she was asking for that my W really could begin to heal and view how life without Busto might be and whether that was what she truly wanted. Perhaps it is in your case, perhaps not.

I saw my W's old C in the waiting room of the office earlier this week while I was dropping off my D6 for a therapy session (D6 is resolving some anxiety issues that arose from our separation). The C gave me a huge hug and said how happy she was that we had come back together, that we each had needed space to heal and grow.

Your W's C might not be coming from this place, but I would say that the current dynamic is not healthy for either of you.


Me-53
W-49
D22,D18,D15
T-Since-12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Piecing start-04/2011
Now-together
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http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
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2pac, sorry you had to feel the pain to spur these incredible posts. But what insight.

I will put these in my Words of Wisdom file.

Thanks to all who have contributed.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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