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#2233916 - 03/28/12 01:26 PM Re: Finding my way through the fog [Re: workinghardguy]
2thepoint Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1692
I see your point WHG but I disagree that it is being judgmental because she is not meeting my standards. Case in point. I loaded the dishwasher before I left for Spain. 10 days later when I was cleaning up and loading the dishwasher, the dirty dishes that I had loaded previously were still in the DW. I know this because of how I load vs. how she loads. They were the same dirty dishes and even more had accumulated. So she wasn't getting to them and I was simply trying to help.

Now I get the point about not interfering in her life and how she lives. You and Busto and others have pounded that into my head. It is an area in which I still struggle. I will get there, eventually.

===========================

Wanted to share something I learned/realized during my IC session yesterday. We were talking about validation and how it works and how people define it, or at least how I define it.

My C told me that validation which often takes the form of verbal acknowledgement of the other persons point of view, can also be reflected in our actions. So for example, when my W expresses a desire for me to not help with the dishes because it makes her feel bad or inadequate or whatever, then by adhering to her wishes, I am in fact validating her. And I would be validating her through actions that would be just as effective as if I were to say to her, you are right W, I shouldn't be cleaning up and I can see how it could make you feel bad, etc.

So the point here is that for someone like me who has a difficult time with verbal validation, validation through actions are also effective. And if we can validate both verbally and through actions, the combination can be quite powerful.

Hopefully this is helpful for others who struggle like I do in this area.
_________________________
Me48 W50 S15 S11
M20 T23
Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11

It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.

Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife

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#2233920 - 03/28/12 01:51 PM Re: Finding my way through the fog [Re: 2thepoint]
nhmom Offline
Member

Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 345
Thanks for sharing this, 2.

I, too, struggle with verbal validation. You're right about the positive results of combining verbal validation with validation through actions.

Btw, to get back to the dirty dishes issue and your W feeling bad for not keeping up. How about recruiting your S's to help out with that. Your W could probably use the extra help with the household (and she's making it clear that she doesn't want the help to come from you), and it could also teach your S's responsibility.

The hard part would be suggesting it to your W without making it sound like you don't think she's doing enough. Maybe put the focus on the kids and how you think it's important for them to start doing chores, etc....it's all for the kid's sake. Maybe say that you noticed your friend's kids doing this and that, and you think that it's a good idea for your S's to try it as well.
_________________________
Me:32 H:34 T:14.5 M:9.5 S:5 BD: 11/25/11



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#2234077 - 03/29/12 01:11 AM Re: Finding my way through the fog [Re: nhmom]
2thepoint Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1692
I can't do this anymore! I really can't!

========================

When my W has a C who says things like:

"Divorce is not only a healthy choice for you, but also a healthy choice for 2TP and the kids"

"You don't have to make any decisions or have any conversations today"


What other choice do I have but to throw in the towel? I can't intervene because I am the LBS who has a vested interest in a different outcome. I have no credibility when it comes to suggesting she see a different C because I am the LBS. I can't even have a discussion about this topic because of my W's medical condition. So what other choice do I have?

I suppose I can hang on and continue to support my W during her rehabilitation, all the while knowing that she will move forward with D when she is healed.

Or I could drop the rope today and feel guilty for the rest of my life for abandoning my W during this medical crisis of hers.

I just can't take this stress any longer!

=======================

My W went to see her C today and when she returned she looked pretty bummed out. She said she wasn't feeling good and cancelled for a second time, lunch with an acquaintance who has shown considerable concern about my W's health.

We got to talking and she is just really tired and confused all the time. We both think that the medication she is on (beta blockers and ace inhibitors) is what's causing her to experience these symptoms. She is also very emotional and can't really pinpoint what brings on the emotions.

I asked her if she thought maybe she should be seeing a psychiatrist or different C to help her through this rough period in her life. She says no, her C has a few Dr. friends who she has been sharing information about my W's condition with and they seem to think these symptoms are normal based upon what has occurred.

As we were talking I asked her about her text to me while I was in Spain, The one where she was asking me to tell her about everything related to her hospital stay and medical condition. She said that she is just now starting to realize just how sick she was and needs to understand everything about the ordeal.

She said her C was wondering if there might be some things I was holding back from telling her. WTF!?! Why would I hold anything back related to her health and why would she even think that?

So we continued to talk and I validated as best as I could where appropriate. She tells me she needs a massage, wants to smell the scents and needs to feel hands kneading her muscles. Sensing an opportunity to flirt a little, I offer to give her a massage but disclose that I am not nearly as good as a professional masseuse but my rates are low. wink She smiled and said she might consider it and then we moved on to other topics.

We talked about how tired she is and I asked her very specifically; "I know I have told you I am willing to help you in any way you need, but is there anything specific you could use help with?" She then asked if I would pick S10 up from school every day and if I would handle taking the kids to their sporting practices each week. I said I would and she seemed pleased.

I then offered to bring her lunch which she accepted and that was the end of the conversation.

=======================

So W is not really in any condition to have deep conversations about our R, yet she has conversations with her C who seems to be pushing her towards a D and claiming how "healthy" it would be for everyone.

When W first dropped the bomb but before I moved out, we were both miserable, you could almost see the tension in the air, and my W was on the verge of a nervous breakdown. If you read back to my early posts you'll see what I am saying to be true.

Today however with the passage of time, the anger and resentment seems to have faded...almost entirely. We get along, we don't fight, we cooperate, we laugh, we go to kids sporting events together, we share meals on occasion, etc. Does any of this sound like we need a "healthy dose of divorce?"

I really think that my W's C is steering her in the wrong direction. And there isn't a damn thing I can do about it!

I am so lost and I really don't think I can do this anymore!
_________________________
Me48 W50 S15 S11
M20 T23
Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11

It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.

Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife

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#2234087 - 03/29/12 02:11 AM Re: Finding my way through the fog [Re: 2thepoint]
workinghardguy Offline
Member

Registered: 09/15/11
Posts: 982
Loc: Wisconsin
Quote:
Today however with the passage of time, the anger and resentment seems to have faded...almost entirely. We get along, we don't fight, we cooperate, we laugh, we go to kids sporting events together, we share meals on occasion, etc. Does any of this sound like we need a "healthy dose of divorce?"
Take a deep breath 2TP... I know it's crazy and maddening. What do you want? And how do you get there? And be honest answering those questions. That will lead you.

If you most want your M back and your family back together then you keep sticking it out. If you most want to end the craziness and gain some consistency then you do what you have to.

I empathize with your quote above. It sounds identical to my W and I. After my S's birthday party my MIL came up to me and said "this is the strangest divorce I've ever seen". Yeah, tell me about it. Actually, tell your daughter about it, would ya? smile

And I don't know if it's normal... I mean there are plenty of stories on here where the STBX goes scorched earth or just disappears completely. Perhaps it's related to their MLC? I don't know, but it is maddening.
_________________________
Married 6 together 8
Me:38 W:31 second marriage for both
SS12, SD10, S6
Bomb: 9/8/11 (day before our 5 yr ann)
W moved out: 2/18/12
D final: 11/12/12
Share S 50/50. Spend as much time as I can with SS & SD

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#2234186 - 03/29/12 03:40 PM Re: Finding my way through the fog [Re: workinghardguy]
sayitaintso Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/11
Posts: 951
Feeling the same way 2. My w has pulled back from me even further recently. We HAVE to let them go and let them live their lives.

It's unfathomable that they would give up on us and our kids as a family but that is what they are choosing. We can only continue being who we are and you are a great man.

So sorry buddy!!
_________________________
Me- 34 W-33
S15 S10 S6
Married- 11 Together- 18
Bomb- 6-2011
WAW moves out- 8-2011

"Nothing in the Universe can stop you from letting go and starting over at anytime"- Guy Finley

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#2234387 - 03/30/12 02:57 PM Re: Finding my way through the fog [Re: 2thepoint]
Grmpy_Mnky Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/11
Posts: 524
Loc: MS
I suppose I can hang on and continue to support my W during her rehabilitation, all the while knowing that she will move forward with D when she is healed.

Or I could drop the rope today and feel guilty for the rest of my life for abandoning my W during this medical crisis of hers.


2pac, I get this too. Everybody, literally everbody except y'all, tells me this. They do not know your heart. They can step back and objectively tell you what your choices should be. Only you know how you feel bro. From my perspective the texts you received last week are telling...
_________________________
Me: 44
Bomb: 11/27/11
Divorced:6/12
Life goes on: 6/13


Dogs still like bacon...a lot.

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#2234388 - 03/30/12 02:58 PM Re: Finding my way through the fog [Re: Grmpy_Mnky]
Grmpy_Mnky Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/11
Posts: 524
Loc: MS
...pulling back is good. It does not mean you love your wife any less.

lets see if we can keep you on the front page for awhile.
_________________________
Me: 44
Bomb: 11/27/11
Divorced:6/12
Life goes on: 6/13


Dogs still like bacon...a lot.

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#2234395 - 03/30/12 03:27 PM Re: Finding my way through the fog [Re: Grmpy_Mnky]
Sad in WI Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 225
Must be something in the air. W and I were getting closer, she then tells me she started to think about the bad times and has pulled herself away from me.

Unless you are living this noone really can understand the pain this causes. I know that if I stopped trying at this point I would not be able to live with myself. Keep taking it day by day.
_________________________
M:39
W:38
S:12
D:8

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#2234397 - 03/30/12 03:31 PM Re: Finding my way through the fog [Re: Sad in WI]
Grmpy_Mnky Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/11
Posts: 524
Loc: MS
and I were getting closer, she then tells me she started to think about the bad times and has pulled herself away from me.

Nothing wrong with that - its normal. I know it still stinks..
_________________________
Me: 44
Bomb: 11/27/11
Divorced:6/12
Life goes on: 6/13


Dogs still like bacon...a lot.

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#2234398 - 03/30/12 03:31 PM Re: Finding my way through the fog [Re: Grmpy_Mnky]
rickb89 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 1119
2Pac - when the W has a medical conditon, and I put my W in that category too, all your instincts will come out as if there were no trouble in the M.

You have to be very careful about not letting those feelings cause you to start pursuing again, and it is pursuing. I know, I did it for a year. It's an inhuman task to drop the rope, let go, all the metaphors that describe this. The WAS pursuit - o - radar is always on. They will know it. No easy way about it other than to just do it, let go. There will come a time when you can do that.

It's not a rejection of your M vows. By letting her go, you are doing the most loving thing you could ever do for her, as hard as it is. By becoming a better you, and by raising your two fine young cannibals you are also honoring your vows. You're not being weak at all this way.

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