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#2228943 03/08/12 08:13 PM
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jks Offline OP
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My husband and I have been married for 8 years... been together 9 (we went to High School together so we knew each other for several years before we got together). We have three children together. Over the years I have struggled with depression and have had major anxiety in getting things done... i.e. cleaning the house, running my business... I was basically living in chaos ALL the time and feeling overwhelmed. Continually felt like I was drowning and just trying to keep my head above water, especially when baby #3 came along. My husband has been my rock. He would ALWAYS pick up the slack for me... cleaning, taking care of the kids when he could, organizing, cooking... everything. Call him amazing... he is!! However, his downfall is that he never had a serious talk with me about how all of this was affecting him. In fact, he was still showing me in little ways that he loved me and so when it all came crashing down, it was very, very confusing. He stated that he had been falling out of love for a long time and was just trying to keep things together but now he has nothing left to give so therefore he wanted to get divorced. Obviously, going through this has forced me to look at myself and really evaluate what I need to be doing in order to get my life back in order. I fell into a huge "funk" that I didn't know how to get out of and felt trapped. And to add on top of all of that I had awful spending habits which resulted in us filing for bk last year. We both now live with each of our parents (not living with each other) and are renting our house out so we don't have a mortgage payment so we can try to get back on our feet again. And what he's telling me now is that he really wants to see me be more independent. He wants me to be emotionally and financially stable. To which he then added, "I'm not saying this so that I can leave you, it just helps me see you be independent." I am struggling with knowing what to do because I am running my own business but it has become so slow because I've been such an emotional wreck that it is almost non-existent. I'm struggling to know if I should continue to work on my business and build it up more or if I should go and get a 40 hr job and put my kids in daycare. We split the kids half and half each week so they would only be going one to two days a week. My business allows me to make my own hours so I can be home with them. They are still little and only go to school half day. To add on top of all of this, he has had an emotional "friendship" affair with another woman at work. And when I asked him to stop the text messaging, at first he said he didn't think that was fair because she's his friend, but then after I explained to him what a huge red flag that is, he told me he would stop. However, this only stopped for maybe three days and then started back up again. I kept watching the bill and bringing it up to him and so eventually he split our cell phone bills so I couldn't see it. Then a couple weeks ago when we were moving out of our house, I had left for a couple days on a trip to "get away," he brought this girl over to our house to help him move our things. I've confronted her and she basically sees nothing wrong with their relationship (I've known her ever since my husband started his job about 5.5 yrs ago and have always liked her but I think she has taken this a bit too far). In the months of June and July of last year my H had 5,500 text messages in each of those months and the majority of those messages were to and from her. It was everyday, all day long. It still makes me sick to even think about it. How does a person think that that is ok? I mean, he would have had to have been glued to his cell phone 24/7. This woman is married but is also having marriage issues and when I talked to him about having her over to help him move while I was gone, he admitted to me that he's attracted to her. He did also state that he hasn't let himself go there with thinking about doing anything more with her, i.e. kissing or anything on that level. But he just really enjoys her company and they have a lot in common. He left me in August 2011 and since then we have been up and down. He's come back wanting to work things out only to leave again not knowing if he can ever feel the same again. I've done the normal pressuring, trying to get him to see things from my point of view, and constantly showing him old things like pictures and old letters that he wrote to me when we were happier and more "in love." Obviously, none of that helped and then I read DR. It has helped me so much it is almost like my Bible right now. However, I just read on another thread that you should not have your spouse read the book and I have already given him a copy. Is that awful? I felt like it had so many good things to consider that I couldn't imagine him not reading it. I'd love to know thoughts on that. I have been doing really well at not talking about our relationship and just this week (I hadn't seen my H for a week) when he dropped off the kids, he seemed in really good spirits, as was I. And he asked me if I wanted to go to breakfast with him the next morning. I, of course, accepted but then plans were cancelled due to my daughter's Dr. appt. We then ended up going out to lunch but with all of our kids which made it very hard to talk... so it was pretty uneventful. Not that I wanted to talk about the relationship. I more just wanted to see why he wanted to go out in the first place. He says that the time apart does help him realize what's important and helps him see what needs to happen in order for our relationship to work. But I am stuck knowing which direction I should go as far as my career goes because I know its important for him to see me be successful and, of course, its important to me as well. And I need advice on keeping myself cool, calm and collected when he is around. He emotionally sets something off inside me so its hard for me to hide what I'm feeling no matter how hard I try... meaning, he always makes me really nervous. I've never felt this way around him before. Like I'm walking on egg shells and my every move is being monitored and judged. Help!


Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.


Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
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Welcome to the board.

No you should try to keep this place a secret and since you have already given him the books just let go of that part for now.

There is a chance that he won't read it or do the work anyway, so it may not matter.

DO not tell him anything else, it is like giving the opposing team your playbook.

It is also controlling and very unlikely to help.

You can not FIX him as YOU did not BREAK him.
That is going to be up to him and you must let him go and give hime space.

Sorry you are on moderation but keep posting in small frequent quantities and you will get off.

Also please hit carriage return when you post to make them a little easier to read.

Welcome to the board.


Me-70, D37,S36
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jks Offline OP
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I wish I would have known that part about having OS read the book. You may be right, he may not even care for it. Who knows? I'm too apprehensive about asking him about it anyway.


Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.


Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,906
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I am not sure if you read DR JKS but here is a list to start you of with.

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.

21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).

27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.

30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.

33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes


M 53
D 20
Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24
Together 26 yrs
Married 16
W Filed for D 7/21/11
Served 9/6/11
D final 8/28/12

“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”

John Wooden





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jks Offline OP
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Thank you, that list is actually where I saw not give your spouse the DR book. Too late. I'm interested to see how next week goes when he comes to pick up the kids. They will be celebrating my son's birthday at his mom's house. I, of course, am not invited. This was the same for my daughter's 1st birthday a month ago. Not invited. However, I never said anything to him about it. I had my own little party and I will have my own little party for my son too. Life goes on...


Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.


Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 623
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jks Offline OP
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bump...


Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.


Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 623
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jks Offline OP
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Posts: 623
H came to pick up the kids on Sunday. It's my S's birthday tomorrow and I knew H and his family were planning a party for him on Sunday. It hurts to know he doesn't want me there. He doesn't talk to me about anything but little things here and there. He is always really nice to me when he sees me and even gave me a hug Sunday before he left and asked me how I was doing. I told him "I'm doing good." Trying very hard to not be the sulky, sad wife that I once was. We had more small talk and he left. I'm really struggling these last couple of days because it's been almost a month of me not pursuing or talking to him about anything and I can see that he seems happier about us but I'm still left in the dark. In the mean time, I'm starting to make myself angry about his EA and his desire to leave our religion. I'm struggling to know if this marriage is something that I TRULY want based on those things. These last couple of days have been depressing. I still do not contact him but I need to GAL but don't really know what to do...


Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.


Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,676
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What are you in the dark about?

And as far as keeping your emotions in check when he's around, try to keep interactions short and to the point. Protect yourself until you're stronger.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 623
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jks Offline OP
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I'm in the dark about whether or not he still wants a divorce, if he's still talking with that OW as much as he was before, if this is helping him, how he feels about us... and I know these are all things I can't ask him about right now but I get in these phases where I can't put my mind anywhere else. I went running this morning to make myself feel better and cried the entire way back home. I cried driving home from a friend's house last night. I cried this morning when I woke up. You're right, I am not strong enough right now to have long interactions with him. And I do try to be the first to say good-bye or to turn and go.


Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.


Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,676
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Posts: 9,676
Grief is a normal part of this process. Don't ignore it, work through that. Do you see an IC? Is there a Divorce care or recovery group in your town?

Try not to worry about what he's thinking. Live your life as if you are divorced.

Do you need him for you to be happy? If so, that's not good whether you divorce or not. You should be in control of your happiness.

Have you read Codependent No More? It might help you.

What things are you doing for YOU? What are your GAL's? What are your goals for you?


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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