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#2232688 - 03/22/12 03:48 PM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: Navyguy]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10460
Loc: west coast
Originally Posted By: Navyguy
Wow...thanks everyone. Lots for me to digest here (that is a good thing).

A couple quick things:


Kaffe & Karma - I agree that the liquid courage had a lot to do with her blow up and that she was setting me up with her comment about me and other H.

___________________

Denver - You are right...there is a lot of hurt there, whether it is all my fault or not. When I say I am not putting up with W, I mean that I point out that W and I have covered particular ground, that I have taken responsibility for your actions, apologized, and have taken steps to correct. I definitely know better than to invalidate her at this point...even if she is wrong, it's not going to do me any good to tell her that. The problem here is that I've been feeding into her victim mentality. By saying I wasn't as bad as other H, I was trying to draw a boundary on what I would and wouldn't be blamed for. You are correct that she probably took it as invalidation though.


regardless of feeling invalidated, her beliefs are harmful and inaccurate.

Deny being like the other h, period.

"I'm not him and never was. I refuse to be blamed for how that marriage affected you. It's over. We are in this marriage now and you are the one dragging it down.

I've tried to help & be patient, but this really is your work to do. I want & deserve to be much better treated."

Do not play into her victim mentality b/c that makes YOU the victimizer.



That was the first time I've ever been the one to leave the bed. I honestly think that in this case it had the exact effect that everyone is telling me I need to create here. It made her fear that she had finally gone too far with me...and that is why she apologized the next morning. She has never apologized for getting upset with me in the past.

interesting


______________

25 - thanks again for your posts and helping me and everyone else here. You rule. I think my biggest "crime", in my wife's eyes, was that I didn't listen to her when she was trying to tell me she was unhappy for quite a long time (as a result of the computer games and being out golfing/biking) She swears that she did...I think she definitely could have done a better job being clear with me...but it is what it is. I didn't catch on until she had a foot out the door. Typical WAW story from DB.


blah blah blah...She's NOT a Typical WAW here... 95% if WAWs around here have real crap h tales to tell. Your wife doesn't.

If she went to Retrovaille and heard the marriage problems being worked out THERE, she'd be mortified to have complained, let alone to have damaged your family by over reacting to your flaws as a human. She's painting a picture that is not real. And she's the one with the problem.

If that "neglect" is all you did for real, STFU and drop it. I'm sorry b/c I'm in a hurry now and sound abrupt, but I'd have to say ENOUGH!!

My h is getting deployed, which sukks financially/emotioinally and parentally. His pay will be cut in half, and before that we had his terminally ill mother here, who I DID the bulk of the care for, almost 24/7, b/c his salary was higher and his hours were long and it stressed me out big time. She passed away and it really took a toll.

H was also gone A LOT for work and I was alone with her AND the kids at night...H could have been much more appreciative in my opinion but hey, HIS mother was the one dying. He was hurting more than me.

My point is, all that happened POST DBing and I didn't whine about it or withdraw. I sukked it up. We're adults. Your "crimes" are misdemeanors at worst.


I know I'm not the problem at this point.

thank God for that^^^


I have had numerous friends of W and I ask (unsolicited) how things are going because they've heard things from other friends. I just say I'm hanging in there. Then they tell me what a great thing I'm doing and what a great guy I am.

______________

GB - the flag aide thing was only a temp gig for January. I'm back to my normal job now. I agree that I need to start pointing out when she's treating me like crap more often.
The reason I don't is because when I have in the past, she gets upset and tells me she's tired of me making her feel like a jerk.

so she sees no connection between her behavior and your reaction? Convenient.

Pretty sure she's beating herself up internally but doesn't want to admit it.

hmmm, maybe you should not assume this^^^..(I wouldn't).


Same thing for when she feels "judged". She's constantly judging herself and won't admit that to herself, so she blames me for her feeling judged.


You are mind reading here. And besides, you can judge the BEHAVIOR without judging the person.

If she steals, identfy the act as a theft. You are not judging HER but you are able to say "that is stealing and it's wrong"...

the idea that you stating the truth upsets her - and so it stops you from doing that, is...pretty wacky. How has it been working so far?

I'm not sure about the whole Nice Guy philosophy. I've read that a couple times and while a lot of it definitely speaks to me, I'm not sure it would help me get what I want in my case.

GB is a big proponent of it, says it helped him and I know some other guys here say that too.

But what I read turned me off b/c it felt retaliatory and immature. But my m is perhaps just different. (And maybe I misunderstood it?)

But all these ideas are things for you to consider, separate the chaff from the wheat and use what you believe will work for YOU. So far, we know what has not worked.


Anyways, I think I will give the fake date thing a shot. Tell W I'm going to grab a drink or something after work a few times over the next few weeks and see what happens. Can't hurt anything to try it.


If you are smart about it, I don't see any downside. (Don't get drunk, of course. She'd love that).

But be happy, for real. You deserve it. Plus, who knows? You might get a reaction like Denver's wife gave him...IN TIME....
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

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#2232749 - 03/22/12 09:27 PM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: 25yearsmlc]
greenblue90 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 685
I agree with the drink, go out have fun, don't get a DUI (safety brief of course!), and don't get drunk or come home too late.

As for the article it's no biggie if it all didnt click with you, my point in bringing it up though is that you have been nothing but nice, so she has a green light to treat you like crap because she knows you'll just keep being nice.

If your W apologized when she usually doesn't, that is huge in my opinion. Like it was said before you not sleeping in the same bed may have pushed the message across. Now don't run for the couch every time you guys fight, since things done repeatedly lose their effectiveness. I'd recommend coming up with a small list of ways of showing increasing detachment, and change them up whenever she blows up.

How does the saying go... You don't value something until its gone...

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#2232897 - 03/23/12 04:11 PM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: Navyguy]
Denver_2010 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/10
Posts: 3029
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Navyguy

Awesome to hear you and W are making some real progress. I think we have both been at this about the same length of time...seems like we keep going back and forth as far as who has made the most progress. Must be that whole roller coaster thing at work.


Roller coaster?! LOL... Yeah... definitely been a roller coaster ... from HELL! LOL

Sometimes, I don't know if it is an advantage or disadvantage that you have your W in the home with you. Personally, I have grown to appreciate my W not living in our home with things the way that they are. I have had to practice a tremendous amount of patience with dealing with the things that have happened, but I'm not sure I could do it if she were living in the home. I applaud you for your patience Navy. I think that you have done about everything that you can to save your marriage. You should be proud of that.

Denver
_________________________
Me 39
W 34
Ss 13
M 3
T 9
Bomb 11/1/2010
EA/PA
W moves out of home 11/2010
Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012
I request divorce 5/2012
W moves home 6/2012

Just Persevere

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#2232934 - 03/23/12 08:05 PM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: Denver_2010]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10460
Loc: west coast
ditto that^^^ Navy...

you can hold your head high, no matter what comes next.

You really have been valiant in your efforts.
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

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#2233738 - 03/27/12 04:20 PM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: 25yearsmlc]
Navyguy Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/11
Posts: 349
Loc: Northern VA
Hey everyone. Well, W is back from Ohio. She got home Sunday night really late. Apparently Ohio bff's son got back from her ex's on Sunday and wanted to hang out with W. So I got to explain to Our S and D that they weren't going to see mommy until Monday. I was asleep when W got home.

I went to work Monday morning. When I got home, W was on the phone with Hawaii BFF. She spent most of the next 4 hours in the phone with the 2 Bff's and her brother, while I cleaned and got the kids ready for and into bed.

Once I had the kids in bed, I was sitting and watching tv. W was still on the phone. W usually goes outside to talk on the phone, but for some reason sat in the kitchen while talking to Ohio BFF. W started talking about how she is friends with guys on FB and that it wasn't a big deal. I don't know what was going on...but it sounded like BFF had told this guy not to friend W but he did anyways. Weird. Even weirder that W had this convo with me in earshot...unless she was trying to bait me. Later I went on FB and found that W has hidden her friends list from everyone.

The fun continues. Blah.
_________________________
BITS
M: 34
W: 33
T12, M9
D7, S5
ILYBINILY: June 09
Unofficially Separated (long distance): 1/2/11
W came home: 3/17/11
EE: July 2012
Official Member of the Rope-Dropping Club: Oct 2012
Piecing: April 2013

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#2233739 - 03/27/12 04:29 PM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: Navyguy]
Denver_2010 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/10
Posts: 3029
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Navyguy
Hey everyone. Well, W is back from Ohio. She got home Sunday night really late. Apparently Ohio bff's son got back from her ex's on Sunday and wanted to hang out with W. So I got to explain to Our S and D that they weren't going to see mommy until Monday. I was asleep when W got home.

I went to work Monday morning. When I got home, W was on the phone with Hawaii BFF. She spent most of the next 4 hours in the phone with the 2 Bff's and her brother, while I cleaned and got the kids ready for and into bed.

Once I had the kids in bed, I was sitting and watching tv. W was still on the phone. W usually goes outside to talk on the phone, but for some reason sat in the kitchen while talking to Ohio BFF. W started talking about how she is friends with guys on FB and that it wasn't a big deal. I don't know what was going on...but it sounded like BFF had told this guy not to friend W but he did anyways. Weird. Even weirder that W had this convo with me in earshot...unless she was trying to bait me. Later I went on FB and found that W has hidden her friends list from everyone.

The fun continues. Blah.


I would calmly confront her about this. I'd let her know that, under the circumstances, it seems rather shady that she would hide her friends list from you.

I'm sure that she this will cause another blow up from her Navy. My W blew up every time I had to confront her about something I found that was shady. It's their own guilt that causes it. All you can do is remain calm in the face of it. Easier said than done. But possible if you are prepared.

Denver
_________________________
Me 39
W 34
Ss 13
M 3
T 9
Bomb 11/1/2010
EA/PA
W moves out of home 11/2010
Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012
I request divorce 5/2012
W moves home 6/2012

Just Persevere

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#2233750 - 03/27/12 05:10 PM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: Denver_2010]
mykarma Offline
Member

Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 791
Loc: TX
Quote:
Even weirder that W had this convo with me in earshot...unless she was trying to bait me


sounds like bait to me. I know I am going against Denver here, but i would not even bother to talk about it. She never told you directly, so act like you do not care. Remember? you have better things in life to do and be happy than get involved in her drama.

I think the only way people in misery can feel better is when they make other people also miserable. So don't give her that pleasure.

Just my 2 cents. I could be wrong.
_________________________
BITS
M 35
W 32
D 4
Married 11 yrs
W left for 6 months in 2009
W Filed for D 01/03/11
piecing now...

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#2233752 - 03/27/12 05:15 PM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: mykarma]
Denver_2010 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/10
Posts: 3029
Loc: Colorado
It's a tough call Karma. I see your point. However, for me, I felt like I needed to know if there was an OM involved.

Unfortunately for Navy, this screams of something inappropriate going on. IMO, he needs to know so that he can make future decisions with full knowledge of what is going on.

Plus, at some point, he needs to draw a line in the sand and say "I will not be a part of a M where I am treated with zero respect."
_________________________
Me 39
W 34
Ss 13
M 3
T 9
Bomb 11/1/2010
EA/PA
W moves out of home 11/2010
Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012
I request divorce 5/2012
W moves home 6/2012

Just Persevere

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#2233820 - 03/27/12 09:39 PM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: Denver_2010]
greenblue90 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 685
I agree with Denver

It's bait alright, and I can think of 3 reasons why she's doing it:

1. She wants Navy to overreact so she can get mad at him and justify her infatuation with a possible OM.

2. She's actively testing the boundaries of the relationship to see how much she can get away with. Expect her to demand her "privacy" while she starts to actively chat up this new guy.

3. She might actually be warming up to Navy again but is too stubborn so she is baiting him so she can be the victim again.

Most importantly I think his W is trying to have it both ways. She wants the financial, logistical, and emotional support Navy provides, but has no interest in having a real marriage. We've gone over this before.

The appearance of a new guy though is very concerning. Another male with which she can bond with (even of only at a friendly level) automatically puts Navy at a disadvantage. Call GB crazy but I believe that from this point every interaction, every conversation, and every action will be compared to this guy and any other "friends" she may have.

"why is it that I have so much fun with these men, but I can't even stand my husband"

As to how to handle it, my recommendation is to bring up that you overheard her conversation, and also noticed she is hiding her friends list. Tell her you are not accusing her of anything, but that her actions could give the wrong impression. Tell her you want to trust her, but it's hard when she looks like she has something to hide.

At this point expect her to fly off the handle. My guess is she'll say something hurtful or threaten to leave in order to get you to back off. She'll act outraged and say you are violating her privacy. It's a smokescreen dont get baited into apologizing for violating her privacy. Let her know that a condition for being married to you is a certain level of transparancy. That being said I think it may be a good idea to make a list of your non-negotiables.

Expect her to rebel and threaten a walk out. Hold strong and weather the storm. I think you should call her bluff.

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#2233836 - 03/27/12 10:24 PM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: greenblue90]
Starsky309 Online   content
Member

Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 4590
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: greenblue90
That being said I think it may be a good idea to make a list of your non-negotiables.



Long, long, LONG overdue, I should say.



Starsky
_________________________
At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)

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