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"Sure does suck. Know that she probably experiences the same if not stronger. Gives some perspective about how unhappy she is/was with the state of the relationship that she chooses D over the R/family."

Busto - I carry this ^^^^ around a lot. I brings me down to reflect on the fact that the pain of R is greater than the pain of missing our S. I know THAT pain and it is hard to picture much worse.

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Hey Crimson,

Just wanted to get in touch to remind you also that this process is not a linear one.

I think in my own case my expectation that things should get better, little by little, in some sort of incremental way is what brings me down so badly.

I've just had H on the phone telling me that he's not going to take part in our usual family traditions for Easter (egg hunt for the kids, hot X bun breakfast, and so on).

And then asking straight out if he could come over today or tomorrow to tell me how we're going to separate our finances. I thought he'd at least want to do some things with the kids for Easter - or recognise it as the big family holiday that we've always celebrated.

But no...

And the fact that we were out watching a kids' football match together yesterday as a family (and we all got on happily) carries no weight at all, it seems.

It's not baby steps forward along a path to R. It's an occasional inch forward followed by a giant mudslide backwards into the depths of despair.

BUT, as much as anything, this is because I expect there to be linear movement forward, and get devastated when it doesn't turn out that way.

We all refer to the emotional roller-coaster that we're on, but I think we don't often recollect what MWD said about the need for patience when we feel like we're back at square one some days.

She talks about a zig-zag pattern of progress as inevitable.

Hope it helps you at this point to keep this in mind.

Best,
NLW

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Bustorama said it so much better than I did, and I agree completely.

Quote:
Pulling back could say to her "so, as soon as I said divorce you took off - that just proves that you were just 'changing' to get me back".


This is the same fear you have carried around with you since day one. She's going to feel however, and you cannot control it. You do your best and then she has the freedom to think whatever she wants. That's just how people are.

You worked your tail off and she saw your changes...and yet, chose the D.....not b/c she didn't think your changes would not stick, and not b/c she didn't think the changes were for her.... but b/c she did not have romantic, sexual attraction for you!
I'm sorry to be so blunt, but she tried to tell you and you can't hear her.

Why can't you see that making your changes won't stick if you've done this to get her back. That's been your problem, you were always scared you could not convince her, your changes would last. But that's your thoughts....not hers.

Now listen...after the D, you will still feel like you can't do anything for fear of her not thinking you've become a better man! How long will you choose to live like that.....five, ten years, until she remarries? It will be an emotional prison for you.

You can't go on living like that, Crimson. Take back the control of your life and start living again. So far, you've given over the reigns of your life to your W. Take them back! You will have more self-respect, if you do.

Quote:
Would NOT asking her to breakfast with me and S or other things be "more of the same"? That's what I perceive "you won't want to work on the relationship" to mean. I guess what I am asking is could this backfire?


Then just ask her what she means. You are allowed to do that you know. It's much better than all the guessing games. Is she wanting a super-close coparenting R like you've given her the past few weeks? Ask her to be specific.

None of what's happened over the past few weeks have been wasted! I wouldn't use the word "backfire", but let's look at it from that POV.

Do you think the last few weeks backfired? If so, then do you really believe if you continued to use the same strategy (inviting her to be with you & S, engaging in long talks, etc.) that she'll suddenly have a change of heart? I don't, Crimson. Not after what she told you in the email. Your changes are good, and it bought you more time, and she sees your changes, and it tore her up.....but she didn't feel what she wanted to feel. So, you tell me.......do you want to continue the same strategy at this point?

Giving up is letting some other person or circumstance take control of your life. Giving up is not an option here. Taking back your life is an option and only you can make that choice. I still believe the day is coming that she will be able to have those feelings for you again....but you have to move forward and be happy without hanging on for dear life for that day to hurry up and get here!

(((hugs)))


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Funny you should bring that up, NLW. I was thinking the same thing about progress in this space being non-linear. I know I read that here before, but it slipped my mind - probably good piece of wisdom for me to keep in mind.

Since I don't know any of you personally and you can't point and mock me, I am comfortable saying that I cried a lot last night. It had been building up and, frankly, felt good to get out. Very cathartic, but I prefer to do it when S is not around.

Sandi2 - you are as spot on as you were in the first reply to my post you ever made. Yep, she feels nothing for me romantically or sexually. Hurts the ego to say that out loud, but if you don't deal in truths you are just kidding yourself. Funny, because during this process she has said that I am nice-looking, etc. - but I have learned that for women there has to be a lot of something "extra" there for a relationship to be romantic/sexual. I am going to move forward, but home that time remains my ally.

I mentioned a guy at work that's probably in his 50's that knows my situation a few months back. He went through this, too - right around my age and he has been a real blessing to have quietly in my corner helping me through this. Don't think he DB'd but a LOT of what he is saying lines up exactly with the principles discussed here - he just learned them on his own. Found out that his w went through with the divorce, too. And he, like me, felt miserable. But he said that it took time for his wife to accept the new him and reaffirm their relationship. He frequently tells me that the divorce is just a point in time and a piece of paper that means nothing. If you know what you want, don't give up or be distracted by other women, etcetera. Talking to him helps keep my hope alive a bit.

W texted me this morning that S had a big bruise on the back of his leg. For a second I considered not replying, but since it was about S I did. Just asked if he complained about pain and said it might be from the playground (he get's pretty rowdy out there).

Getting back to your post Sandi, yeah - I think the last few weeks backfired in one respect so moving forward in that same direction would be a big mistake. I think it worked well in the sense that it gave her a chance to see some of the changes that I have made and perhaps gave her pause to see if they were "real". Clearly, she is still evaluating. To be honest I did too much too fast...but I wanted to make her feel good about herself (ergo the compliments and kind words) and let her know that I understood better what romance and affection meant to her (hence the flowers). Again, too much to soon. A classic LBS mistake that I thought I was avoiding. I should trust people here more.

Working on my GAL. Taking S to easter egg hunt this weekend and to the Musical Instrument Museum with a friend. It's a start.....

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Originally Posted By: sandi2
Giving up is not an option here. Taking back your life is an option and only you can make that choice. I still believe the day is coming that she will be able to have those feelings for you again....but you have to move forward and be happy without hanging on for dear life for that day to hurry up and get here!


So much agree with the above.

Crimson, remember back in the day, did you ever have someone romantically interested in you, but you weren't attracted to them? And they kept doing all sorts of things to "win" you over, hanging around you, hoping, striving. Didn't work out for them, did it? If anything, they come across as pathetic, desperate, icky, maybe even creepy.

That's how your W feels. Mine felt the same way.

The loss of attraction might be for a variety of reasons other than your physical appearance (you hurt her, you neglected her, she lost trust in you, you guys got into a rut of boredom, she lost respect for you), but the important thing FROM HER POV is she doesn't feel it for you. From her POV, it doesn't matter WHY she doesn't feel it for you, all she knows is she does not feel for you the way she wants to and hasn't for awhile.

I know you have been really focused on the fact that your W does not "feel it" for you -- wondering if, and how, those feelings might return. They can, but it's not via the doormat/kiss up/friend approach. My W even declared when moving out, "Once I have lost feelings for someone in the past, they have NEVER EVER come back. That has never happened for me, they are gone forever." Well, they came back.

And it's most likely to happen when you take control of your life, lead confidently and strongly in being the best Crimson you can doing your own thing. Her feelings of loss for you may remind her of things about you that attracted her to you, and she may start following/pursuing you as you distance. And if she doesn't, you don't want her to be as unhappy as she is with someone she doesn't feel it for, do you?

Open her cage, and you open your own.


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D22,D18,D15
T-Since-12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Piecing start-04/2011
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i cried last night, too. you sound like a very kind and sensitive man and i think you can be proud of yourself.


M:63
H:53
S:41, SS:28, SS:25, SD:23
M:15
T:16

Bomb:12/17/11, "I think we should go our separate ways."
H moves to his mother's house, 4/1/12
12/21/12: H moves back home, piecing

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Crimson Offline OP
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Thanks, ScaredS - I always feel horrible that I do it - or that I even have to, but it does help get pain out somehow.

Busto -

I can't tell you how great of a post that was for me to read. As a man, I think we (well, at least "I") tend to subscribe to the false theory that if a woman finds us physically attractive that is 80% of the battle right there. Very, very untrue I am learning. I mean, I guess I have always kind of known that - I just seem to be witnessing it firsthand right now.

It's good to hear someone's story of feelings returning after they had gone. I often wonder if it is even possible in my situation. I agree that the doormat/friend/buddy approach probably won't get me there. Where I struggle is trying to find that right balance between friend and "distant" - you know? I guess I have this whole "out-of-sight-out-of-mind" fear with my W. I feel as though if I make myself scarce she will interpret that as me not being interested in R anymore. She already point blank said "I'm guessing after the divorce you won't want to work on the relationship anymore". How do I balance being there and not being there? Honestly, I really don't know a good way to do that and need help.

W texted me again this morning saying that S was in a really good mood this morning. Now knowing if I should say nothing or be polite I said "I'm sure that it's because he's with his mommy" - which I honestly DO believe. She said it was because he slept well and I joked and asked if she'd been slipping him some of her Lunesta. She sent back a chuckle. I figured I needed to pinch the convo off so I said "Have a good day, w". She responded "You, too. Keep your head up!". I didn't respond. Was THAT too much?

Gonna work on taking control of my life. Have to make sure my finances don't get screwed up. I do NOT want to lose my house. So I need to start there and build around that goal.

Thanks everyone -

Crimson

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Crimson, I just posted some more journaling regarding my sitch that continued from where I left off posting on DB (so that it is more apparent what was going on from then up to the time that W and I began to reconcile).

You may find it helpful to you, since I know you read the first portions. Begins on p.6 of my second thread.


Me-53
W-49
D22,D18,D15
T-Since-12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Piecing start-04/2011
Now-together
Thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
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I think a huge part of not living is over analyzing every single interaction. I see it here a lot. People debate endless how to respond to a text or not respond or call or do whatever.

I submit the moment that you can truly free yourself from that is the moment you will be on the path you want.

But I think the biggest key in this is to trust yourself and your instincts. They will serve you well.

Not to quibble with gabby, but only on person's opinion really matters on if your text was pursuing and she's not on the boards.


Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.
--Jean Jacques Rousseau.
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So I have concluded that for the near-term I am going to exist the "do you want to do this with me" business with my W. Probably the best thing to do considering I uninentionally smothered her. Enter a strange wrinkle.....

There is an Easter Egg hunt at our church on Saturday (mentioned it a few posts ago) and I planned on taking S. Of course, W also attends church. She e-mailed me at work and asked if she could join me and S for the hunt. I didn't answer right away because I was away from my desk. She texted me the same question.

It was a hard decision to make, but I just said "sure, I would hate for you to miss it". Primarily because I know for a fact that she was expecting me to say "no" given the news from earlier this week and the fact that I got shut out last Friday from the whole train-park deal with her mom for my son's b-day.

I guess the "rightness" or "wrongness" of my decision could be debated forever - but I just went with my gut. I don't mind her being there, she wants to see the event, and I have no expectations at this point since I know D is coming. This is not going to save my marriage. I figure telling her to stay away would have done more harm than good in terms of us being friends.

Crimson

PS....Busto, I will check out the thread you referenced

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