Death of a "nice guy"

[zig]

CES I have found through this sitch that the WAS is completely and fully focused only on themselves. No courtesy at all can be expected and thd fact that you're their partner doesn't factor in at all. Until you realize this you will continue to be dumbfounded by the sheer rudeness and double standards

thanks for pointing this out rick - i as well as the family have been astounded by this and now i am starting to realize that it is all part of the walk away package.

finding myself now in the position where the mil's and siblings can only see that and judge h on each of his actions and are getting more and more disgusted.

but my view is changing where i don't see it as significantly as i did before, the more i realize that this is just what they do in the state they are in.

[ces67]

Thanks Rick, yeah, I went into the option with no expectations. I really didn't even ask her to go specifically, but just to look it over and think about it. I doubt she will bring it up again unless I ask her about it. I'll give it a couple months before I bring it up again. Funny thing is this was not a planned out idea. It just sort of occurred to me and I acted on it without too much consideration. It felt right this way, without all the deliberation.

I mentioned earlier my cycle of hope turning into expectations. So I'm working on being grateful for what kindness or courtesy I do see from my W but make a conscious effort to stop there rather than take it as a sign that we may be healing.

2 - No change on the t-shirt. I've not mentioned it and its still around. About 1/2 the time its covered up by my W's bath towel. There are several things that are getting under my skin right now and it all boils down to a pattern of what I perceive as deception on my W's part...money, schedules, travel, relationships. If I addressed it all, it would only end up a full-on attack and I can't see that helping my sitch any.

I am meeting with a new IC tomorrow. This is someone a friend at church recommended and is actually the in-direct source of how I learned about the Divorce Busting book. He is a licensed Marriage & Family Therapy counselor and very "pro-marriage". I'm curious to get his thoughts on how I am handling things and if he has any suggestions.

[2thepoint]

CES - you have been living with this drama for a long time now; almost 2 years if I go by your signature block.

There are several things that are getting under my skin right now and it all boils down to a pattern of what I perceive as deception on my W's part...money,schedules,travel,relationships. If I addressed it all, it would only end up a full-on attack and I can't see that helping my sitch any.

So you'd rather die a slow death by 1000 cuts than assert yourself in an area that is the source of significant discomfort? It would appear that you need to start setting some boundaries and stop being fearful of upsetting the delicate balance that seems to be all in favor of your W and not of you.

I may be wrong but it sure does look like you are allowing yourself to be a doormat is some respects. Perhaps you will be able to gain some clarity and even a new strategy for dealing with your sitch after meeting with your new C.

Keep us posted on how things work out with the new C.

[ces67]

2 - you may very well be right. And you're not the first person to say something similar. I have had a few close friends tell me that I need to confront my W and that I'm being to "nice" (yes, that dreaded word...)

Then there is my counselor, the DB book and my own thoughts about how confrontations can push the WAW even further away.

I have continued to go down the latter path of how I'm interpretting the DB book and giving my W space & time to work through her issues. Yes, its been almost 2 years since the bomb, but I've only been applying the DB principles for maybe 6 months at best.

I also think my "nice guy" tendencies are still working against me. These are life-long patterns and I'm sure there are common actions I'm taking that I don't even recognize yet as harmful because of how natural they seem.

Even typing this out I can see how I am trying so hard to "get it right". I honestly can't tell within myself if I'm choosing to be non-confrontational because I think its the right path or if I'm paralyzed by indecision. I've given this a lot of thought and prayer and its just not clear yet to me.

When I brought up RetroV, it was clear and obvious and I acted. These other topics just aren't as clear to me. Maybe its time for a leap of faith.

I will be covering this with the new IC tomorrow and hope for some insight that settles in my heart with a conviction and direction.

Thanks for the mental challenge. I do appreciate it.

[BFloat]

Even typing this out I can see how I am trying so hard to "get it right". I honestly can't tell within myself if I'm choosing to be non-confrontational because I think its the right path or if I'm paralyzed by indecision. I've given this a lot of thought and prayer and its just not clear yet to me.

are you a libra? lol.

i think i'm like you.. sometimes i can't tell whether i'm just avoiding confrontation or just completely indecisive on what the right thing to do is.

sept is a long ways away. you've put it out there.. give her some time to let it sink in.

as far as this whole M thing.. i really don't know what i'm doing. so all i can do is say that i think you're a great guy and just here to support you.

(((( ))))

[ces67]

Actually I'm a Gemini. (or Taurus if you go by the updated zodiac). Glad I'm not the only one.

Feeling very angry tonight. My w asked me to run to the store after dinner. No big deal really. Picking up some final stuff for Easter for the kids. As I get it all I realize I don't have enough in my account for this and my regular expenses for next week and end up using a credit card to take care of the purchase. I'm mad at myself for not planning better and because I just went and did what my W asked me to do without thinking it through.

I am also turning on my W as well since she has not offered any assistance with family expenses since getting her job. Think I need to sleep this off and figure out what I want to do. I will definitely be calling the financial place back and get set up for the budget coaching whether or not my w chooses to participate.

Thanks for the ((())) BF. back at ya!

[labug]

ces, good for you going to the budgeting workshop. That might give you just the energy you need.

I'm reading The Solo Partner now and just today read the chapter Dealing with "Who is to blame". In it he says: In order to make your point without reactivity, state only your true "I" position. There is an example about money, the husband was an impulsive buyer. The wife's "I" statement: "I decided to get my own checking account to simplify my finances." I know this is a bit different from your problem but it might be helpful to think about your "I" statement around your issue.

"Put all your efforts into saying exactly what you mean without being critical or vindictive."

[~ kd ~]

CES, I did a quick skim over your past two threads...

How is your current tack working for you?

The t-shirt is still bothering you?

Do you feel you are still in limbo and repeating the same thoughts and actions of your own and interactions with your W?

Is anything changing over the past month?

If so, what specifically?

What specifically is BETTER in your life?

What do you want to get rid of, right now... that you've had enough of?

What do you think you could do differently now, to change some things up again...?

It could be time to break some of your patterns... let go of the baggage and take on some new tasks this spring...

[ces67]

Thanks Bug! I will try and frame up my feelings in these terms and see how it feels. It seems recently that I am holding in too many feelings. In an effort to be kind and act "as if" I am holding in the things that my W does that frustrates me and so with holding this in, its building the resentment & anger I've been feeling.

KD - Thanks for stopping by and providing some structure for my thoughts....

How is your current tack working for you?

Mainly since starting DB, I've pulled back on any R talk and tried to act more "AS IF" and do my thing. I feel it has significantly decreased the amount of hostility my W has since beginning the DB stuff in December.

The t-shirt is still bothering you?

Yes it is. At first I tried to overlook it and take the high road so to speak. Lately, its feels like a sign of deception coupled with other things I am noticing. More on that later...

Do you feel you are still in limbo and repeating the same thoughts and actions of your own and interactions with your W?

I do feel in limbo and with more consideration its because I have expectations that our M will eventually be worked on by both of us and its not happening. Just realized that expectation. It seems I need to come to terms with letting that go and figuring out what that looks like for me. The main thing that is repeating is what I mentioned before, I allow hope to turn into expectations which then turns into disappointment. I struggle with how to have hope along with no expectations and I refuse to give up hope. Just need to let go of my image of what hope looks like, maybe.

Is anything changing over the past month?

Since January my W started a part-time job with friends back in our former home. She works for OM and his W doing some basic administrative work with their inventory. My understanding of the purpose of the job was to help our family deal with our financial struggles. I also expressed to my W when she told me about it that I understood how the flexibility of the job would be good for her time with the kids but that I didn't like her working for the OM (I had found a picture of the 2 of them back in the fall that she had hidden and confronted her about it then - She claimed it was infatuation only).

Since starting the job, W has not offered any assistance with expenses and even got upset with me when I made a suggestion on the topic in February. W complained that she really didn't make that much and still needed the money I gave her each pay. However, W is constantly buying herself new clothes; dresses, work out clothes, fancy tops & underwear. She travels when she wants to and eats out and does various entertainment when she's with them that we don't get to do as a family due to expenses.

I also did some recent snooping - yes, I know, not good. I found another picture of W & the OM in the "downloads" folder of our macbook. It a pic he took of the 2 of them with his phone. He's got his arm around her pulled in close to him. It seems he took it and e-mailed it to her. My guess is when she opened it, the macbook automatically saved it to the download folder. The file has a November date - so after I confronted her about the other pic I'd found.

If so, what specifically?

W now uses the job as a reason to travel back to our former home. She keeps the macbook with her constantly, even keeps it in her bedroom at night, and I'm concerned she still communicates with OM via chat sessions. I know they use to do this back in 2010 based upon notes I'd found several months ago. I never let my W know I found these notes or the pic I found on the macbook.

I feel like I'm being used and manipulated. W takes the parts of our M that are convenient for her and then does what she wants without contributing back except where it concerns the kids (she is still a very good mom).

What specifically is BETTER in your life?

I am controlling my emotions better and letting go of my worries and negative thoughts. This has given me better focus at work and I feel valued and appreciated in a job I love. I am more at peace with myself in many ways and feel I maintain very positive interactions with the kids. I am doing some better on GAL stuff and doing some things I want to do. Still room for improvement here. My new job came with a raise so I am in a better position to deal with our debt on my own given my W does not seem to want to help.


What do you want to get rid of, right now... that you've had enough of?

I want to get rid of the deception that seems so obvious in the past few months. W is hiding how she uses money and she's hiding details of her relationship w/ OM, whether in the past or not.

I want to get rid of the resentment & anger I feel because its not who I want to be and its not the motivations I want to drive my life.

What do you think you could do differently now, to change some things up again...?

Here's what comes to mind... Tell my W how I feel and stop holding in my frustrations and feelings. I feel I've made a poor choice in not addressing issues where I am frustrated. But I tend to look at how I may have contributed to the issue and then set my own frustrations aside. This is starting to eat at me.

I want to address my concerns with how W's spending is destructive to our family. I want the t-shirt & the pics of OM gone. I feel I'm at a point that if she wants to hold on to these things then there is little use in continuing work on our M and we may need to go our separate ways. I hate this. But maybe its time to face the facts that she wants something else more than our M to work and I need to openly acknowledge this to her.

It could be time to break some of your patterns... let go of the baggage and take on some new tasks this spring...

I think to let go of the baggage, I will need to express several things to my W about what I am seeing and how I see this moving forward. In my head it sounds like an ultimatim ("If you want to stay together these things cannot be part of our life - OM stuff, hiding money, secrets...") I need to figure out how to say this differently in a way of the "I" statements like Bug suggests and also in a way that sets my own boundaries for living a more emotionally healthy existance.

Meeting with the new IC today and trying to figure out how to bundle all this up in a 20 minute explanation so we have time to discuss options....

Thanks all.

[~ kd ~]

That was good stuff, CES.

Yesterday evening I began thinking again about the double binds the LBS often finds themselves in.

Things like "too little, too late" or "you always have to be right" that the WAS script will say to us.

We get set up into a position where there is nothing we can do or say because we are already convicted and any defence is further example of our faults and failures.

A useful and successful solution to the double bind is acceptance and affirmation:

Yes, it is too little and too late.

Even though it is too little and too late, does not have to stop one from continuing forward. There is no defence and therefore there is no argument. The actions of growth are outside of the scope of the past.

Yes, I do have to feel right.

Everyone has a need to feel they are right. That does not mean that others have to be wrong. In fact, at its core, often being right has no bearing on anyone else except the individual. Acceptance of the human need to feel secure that they are correct provides them with a valuable source of motivation to continue on their path.

This past week, I was also working through the lying... ie. withholding and hiding...

In some ways, that is a passive form of double bind. If nothing is wrong with an action, then there is no need to hide the action.

If a spouse tells us that they feel they do not feel married, yet hide an OP, they do in fact feel that they will be judged by us or others for the OP. Therefore, the truth is they DO feel it is wrong, when the reality may very well be that there is NOTHING wrong with them being with the OP, if they truly are making that choice to be with someone else.

So the moment the double bind begins is not when they take on the OP, but when they hide the OP. Which then introduces the likelyhood that their involvement with OP will surface and thus they will be judged as doing something wrong, by being with the OP.

Anyhow, the point of posting the above is to understand that what you do to be better or to have peace of mind has no bearing on how your W may or may not have or place you in a double bind.

While I accept that my W will continue to hide her private life to me, I stepped out of the double bind by confronting the lie, while accepting the OP, regardless of his romantic or lack there of involvement with my W.

Perhaps you are stuck in some double binds. Figure them out and unstuck yourself... then you will likely feel freedom to move forward in a more constructive and positive way.