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You might as well shoot yourself in the foot, Crimson! She tells you a list of things that really hurt her. That were DEAL BREAKERS her for her (and that still hurt her when she thinks about them). And you tell her you don't even remember it? (and she hears it was that insignificant to you to hurt her like that that you don't remember).
This? /\ /\
VERY well said!
I have this with my H all the time. And he is always defensive. It will be a deal-breaker for us, too. If someone defends their actions, there is no reason to believe they will change their actions in the future. Not even being able to remember them is just icing on the cake. Part of it is heart, the other part is mouth. The mouth can be trained.
Sorry, C, for a few bad moments this weekend. Otherwise I think it was good. I still see so many open doors. I may have been wrong on the D not going through, but I still have little doubt to the R of the M. Those negative signs just aren't there.
I too did not recognize that my XW had some real greviences, which were (obviously) significant to her. By the time she was done it was too late.
When your WAS reaches a point where they've had enough, you have to understand, it's going to be a long road back.
She could forgive hurt and pain when she feels free of pressure and you can make it easy for her, by your attitude and changes. Forgiving is not as hard for the liberated.
The hard part is the forgetting. It takes a lot more time and patience and work to allow someone the growth to actually let go of the past. I too have greviences. Forgetting is hard for both partys; be prepared.
Understand then, that one spouse's choices may not make any sense to the other, but it makes perfectly good sense to them. Accept that and go forward from there.
Me 53 XW 50 M 18 Years +2 S14 D19 Bomb 10-24-10 Served 1-27-11 Mediate 4-21-11 Civil D Final 6-2-11 No church anullment "A man is not finished when he is defeated, he is finished when he quits."
I'm assuming you are Christians b/c of the celebratory nature of your activities this weekend. Remember what this holiday/ Holy Day/Sunday is all about in our faith?
Not just the suffering of the crucifixion but (for me anyhow), the main point was the Resurrection.
Anything grab you about that?
Without crucifiction there is no resurrection.
Likewise, sometimes you have to go through seperation and/or divorce to resurrect the relationship. Let the old one die and begin anew.
To correlate DB principles, if someting's not working let it go - that could end up being the whole old marriage.
But only God knows. Play the hand you're dealt.
I've been through what you're going through Crimson. Praying for ya. Pic
I was not really interested in a theological discussion. I just wanted Crimson to see the HOPE in his situation. I think he gets the pain part already.
Crimson---when she apologizes for reaming you (as opposed to some mutual "fray" for which you both would apologize for hurtful things said) then accept the apology.
At best her timing of the reaming sukked. You took her out, you both laughed a lot and she held your arm and then gets in the car to ream you out?
At worst, she HAD to blow the evening b/c God forbid she acts happy around you when she MUST be miserable and prove that you are too.
That was just lousy of HER...let her apologize.
In the future If she wants to express regrets or anger, pick a normal appropriate time. Even if she is "right" to feel however she feels, you think a birthday party is a good time to bring it up? How about Christmas Eve? See my point?
As for the validating and not recalling--as you may recall, my h does NOT remember saying that he was "willing to take that chance" when I asked him if he knew he was risking losing our marriage and family.
He says he'd "never say something like that, ever."....I can tell you where I was (guest bathroom) and what I was doing--not gross--I was spackling the wall.
So yes, I am positive he said it.
But to him that would be SO hurtful and stupid to say, he just cannot believe it. I think at some level he does not want to.
Unlike your w, I don't HAVE to have him recall it, but then again, it wasn't about having another child. If she does not think you know HOW you hurt her then she'll not feel safe about it not happening again. That is the difference.
If you don't recall something at all, MAYBE you can say "I can't believe I'd be that insensitive or stupid or---, b/c I DO WANT another child..."
and wasn't it possible you were worried about money or time? I thought at the start of this, in your posts, you did recall saying some wacky things you regretted -- but you defended in your posts...maybe those are what she's discussing?
She may win for sending the most mixed signals in the world...but it's better than the option of sending clarity with a good bye.
Do you ever talk about how YOU FEEL, NOW? Ever share that? It's a form of intimacy and disclosure builds intimacy.
Too many men "interview" women to see how the women feel, which is great---but if they never open up themselves, it's a bit unfair. The woman makes herself vulnerable, or naked, and the guy just takes it in, like he's gathering intel,
It's often well intended so I don't mean to bash guys here. The man doesn't want to appear self centered and I get that.
He wants his wife to feel heard and understood. But in your w's case, she needs to know how you feel.
so maybe, no more remarks about being a better dad..."with someone, someday" b/c they sound vaguely threatening like you'd "show her"....
If she brings up another child as a topic,
can you own the fact that YOU FEEL CONFUSED NOT about wanting another child but about including her in it, b/c she is confused about whether she wants to be with you AND
yes, you DO want to be a father again. You would prefer it be with her BUT you also know that whenever you speak of future plans, she backs down and gets distant.
So you are sort of damed if you do, and damned if you don't. If that's how you feel, would it be so weird to tell her that?
She needs some accountability for what she expresses too.
Yes -I know Crimson, I know you have said you were a jerk in the marriage (per YOU, not me)and a lot of what you describe was very selfish, and I know that she was hurt often, and deeply.
I get it. You get it. We get it. Sooooo What is it that she wants from you, NOW?
I'm thinking she wants you to keep courting her without paying attention to divorce papers, no matter what they say or what gets filed, etc. She wants to know if those changes of yours, were tactics for stalling/stopping a divorce
(b/c the timing of your letter the night before a hearing - sukked too, but yes, better late than never) OR
if they're real. How best can she test that, but by following through?
I know it's dramatic and painful - but in a weird way I can see why.
Just my opinion. I'd love to hear other's.
Sorry for the confusion Crimson but hey, there is still a whole lot of hope.
Her apology was spot on. And it's an improvement. It means she knows you have changed for the better and perhaps she wants to live UP to that in herself too. Hence HER doing the apologizing. You were not flawless in the discussion but you were pretty damn good.
The statement "I don't recall that but I'm sorry IF I hurt you" is only for batchit crazy things they accuse you of.
In your case, You know you DID hurt her - so just stick to saying sorry for THAT. And then make the point of how it'd be different in the future so she can envision it.
Even if she misheard something, it DID hurt her. Make sense?
m:51 H:55 M: 30 yrs S25,D23,D15 H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005 I file Sep 2/06 Piecing 7/07 Retrovaille Weekend 8/08 M Restored 8/08