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#2233297 - 03/26/12 01:34 AM Re: Needing some guidance... [Re: jks]
jks Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 623
Loc: USA
So H texted me about the kids today and I started to ask him a lot of questions that have been bugging me today. One being that I wanted to know if he had slept with OW in OUR bed while I was gone on my trip and she had come over to help him move. He said no. Nothing happened while I was gone.

I then asked him if he had talked to her yet, he said no, he's been so sick and was called out to work at 4:00 this morning so he hasn't had the energy and has been sleeping all day.

I asked him if his parents knew about his A. He said no.

Then I told him that I felt like the ultimate breakdown of our M was because he was so focused on being with OW that he couldn't see anything in me. No matter how hard he tried, he kept comparing me to her and because she was "everything he ever wanted" then there was no way I could even compete. And I told him that he is a hypocrite because he kept telling me that he wanted me to find happiness within myself when all along he was trying to seek out happiness through someone else. He was relying on her to make him happy. So therefore, he sleeps with her to find his happiness. Was it there?? NOPE!! He agreed with that statement, btw.

Sure glad he got the chance to try that out. Wish we all had that luxury of sleeping around until we find what makes us happy. This is such a messed up world we live in. What ever happened to self control and human decency?? Can you tell I'm angry tonight?

I have no idea how to handle myself right now. In a way I don't want to make him feel worse because I know he has enough guilt to last him a lifetime but in another way I feel like why should I make this easy on him? I am the one who was chewed up, spit out, stomped on and then rolled over by a freight train. I am emotionally exhausted and a couple days ago I felt like we were making some headway and now this brings everything back to square one again.

I am so worried that he's going to change his mind at any moment. Any moment! He's out the door and ready to give up. He's already done it once, why wouldn't he do it again? And now he knows that he has someone to fall back on if we don't work out. This is bad. I don't know how God could think that I'm strong enough to handle this. I am a mess...
_________________________
Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.



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#2233303 - 03/26/12 01:51 AM Re: Needing some guidance... [Re: jks]
jks Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 623
Loc: USA
Looked up "affair recovery" on Google and found this...

"The Lonely Hearts Club"

This type of affair is characterized by two individuals who believe they are "in love". With this type, the betrayer believes that he or she has fallen in love, and feels powerless over powerful emotions. It is not uncommon for the betrayer to feel guilty over what they are doing, but at the same time they feel they are no longer in love with their spouse and know that they will never be happy unless they are with their lover. This type of relationship frequently develops from an existing friendship that begins to deepen as the boundaries between the two individuals weaken. It is not necessarily based on sex. In fact, the power driving the relationship is the strong emotions generated by the growing romance. In this type of affair, the betrayer has most likely made the decision to leave their marriage. They realize that they can never be happy unless they get to be with the one they love.

Unlike the Low Rent Rendezvous, this type of affair often indicates a deeper problem in the marriage. Let me be clear - the marital problem is not the cause of the affair, but there are defects that at the very least, serve as inhibitors to the betrayer's motivations to consider working on the marriage.

Characteristics:

The betrayer believes wants out of the marriage.
They feel they are in love with their affair partner, and are willing to sacrifice life as they know it for the opportunity to be with their lover.
Typically, this type of affair is a long-term relationship that has developed into a romance.
Frequently, there is a pattern of the betrayer swinging back and forth between the marriage and the affair partner. When they are at home trying to do what is right, they are miserable and feel they will never be happy. When they are with their affair partner, they are ecstatic, but may be feeling so guilty that they can't stand it so they move back home only to feel miserable and to realize once again that they can never be happy unless they go back to the affair partner. This dance of insanity can continue for years.
The betrayer often seems incapable of making a decision as to what they are going to do. Even though the betrayer doesn't want to be in the marriage, other factors may keep them from choosing to divorce. For example, feelings of guilt or of failure may cause them to stay. There may also be strong feelings regarding what is best for the kids, so they may decide to stay for the children. A lack of commitment to the marriage, but choosing not to leave, is not the solution to a country club affair.


I am worried that my H just feels so much guilt that he can't stand it and therefore is trying to feel something for me. I'm having a hard time believing that what he's saying is for real. I mean, just a couple months ago he was telling me that there was no way he was going to ever feel that way for me again and he actually had sex with me and told me it didn't feel right at all. How does that just change in two months? I am lost... I cannot and will not go through another two years of battling him going back and forth between me and OW because he cannot make up his mind.

What do I do?
_________________________
Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.



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#2233307 - 03/26/12 02:15 AM Re: Needing some guidance... [Re: jks]
jks Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 623
Loc: USA
Btw, I found out today that my H helped OW move in to her new place when she got divorced in Nov. Which is the same month that he went to get the papers to file. During November we were spending a lot more time with each other because of the holidays. But he was still finding time to go be with her. He was already planning his A and once she had her divorce over and done with, it was fine for them to do whatever they wanted. Nevermind that he was still married.... Ahhhh!! I need to stop!!
_________________________
Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.



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#2233330 - 03/26/12 09:44 AM Re: Needing some guidance... [Re: jks]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/11
Posts: 8360
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Yes, you need to stop.

Is the affair a deal-breaker for you? It'll probably take you a while to figure that out but hen you will have a better idea of what to do.

Let him contact you.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M35 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2233335 - 03/26/12 10:12 AM Re: Needing some guidance... [Re: labug]
Crazyville Offline
Member

Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 1046
I think labug is trying to tell you that you're more than welcome to vent here all you want, in fact it's encouraged. Better to get it out here than elsewhere.

But, also, that you're stuck in the mire. This is consuming you, and understandably so. But you've got to get your head above water in order to be able to see clearly. Take some time and vent and scream and cry, but knowing that you ultimately need to climb out of this on one side or the other. The sooner, the better, for YOU. This is where the GAL aspect of DB really comes into play.

Also, Accuray gave you some really good suggestions on a healthy perspective of an A. I don't think anyone ever really plans it. Few people go into M thinking, "I'm 100% devoted, at least until things get stale, and then I'll just have an A to spice things up." They happen. They develop over time, usually unintentionally. I like to relate it to those extra pounds we put on when we aren't paying attention and just living life. One day we step on the scale and are shocked, wondering "How'd that happen!!" I'm not trying to minimize the sitch or your pain. A's are serious business no matter how it happens. Now, you just need to decide if it's a dealbreaker for you.

One word of advice ... just make sure that you don't make your decision rashly, driven by your current emotions. Otherwise, a year or two down the line, you're liable to be in the same boat as your H thinking, "What did I do??!!! This is not what I wanted!"

(((jks)))
_________________________
Me:49 WAW H:59
T:19.5 M:19
S:13

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#2233359 - 03/26/12 11:58 AM Re: Needing some guidance... [Re: Crazyville]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2088
Hi JKS,

Take a deep breath! You should expect to go through a period of intense hurt right now -- know that it is temporary and will pass, but you must go through it. For me, I couldn't eat, I had dry heaves, I couldn't sleep, it was awful -- but it passed! Know that in 6 months, no matter what happens, you'll be in a much much better place, you have to get through to then. I got a prescription for anti-anxiety meds from my GP which did help somewhat. You should expect to go through waves of deep hurt. Eventually they will come less frequently, they won't last as long, but the last thing to go will be the intensity.

Here are a few other things to think about: (1) you will never know everything that happened (2) your imagination will fill in the worst possible interpretation of events and fill in gaps in your knowledge in the worst possible way. You will assume that everything was more dire than it was. You've seen this already with imagining that OW was having sex in your bed. That came from your imagination, and there will be more of that.

Trying to know everything will torture you. You'll ask a question and get an answer, then you'll obsess about that, and then you'll want to know tons of add on details, then you'll want to know how frequently it happened, etc. etc. etc. and unfortunately, that NEVER ends until you decide to end it.

Think also about H -- remember, believe half of what they do and nothing they say. H says he'd like to recommit, he may still very much be torn. If you present him with guilt, shame, and recrimination each time you interact with him, and OW is earnestly trying to get him to commit to her by telling him how wonderful he is, you're creating a difficult dynamic. When you discuss the details of H's affair you are making withdrawals from your marital "love bank", because those interactions make him feel like cr@p. Be sure you're making deposits as well by virtue of continuing to exhibit 180's and positive changes.

You will have the opportunity to ask your questions and voice your outrage, but you may want to find the strength to hold off until you know that H has gone "no contact" and that OW has moved on, and that H has started to see more positives in a future with you by virtue of your changes. I guess what I'm telling you is that you're getting positive signals from H, but don't wave the victory flag yet and start acting on the basis that you can extract your pound of flesh for his affair. For your questions -- journal them. Batch them up, review them, revise them, and be sure when you talk to H about them you are succinct. I would "schedule" these discussions with H by giving him advanced warning that you want to ask some questions and give him some time to emotionally prepare. Once again, I strongly recommend you hold off for now, until your relationship is on better footing and OW is conclusively gone.

H pictured a better future without you -- you've been doing a good job so far of showing him that he's made some assumptions about you that may no longer hold. Continue to do so, you need to be a wife that only a fool would leave.

Do not gloss over this part of what you posted above:

Originally Posted By: jks
...the marital problem is not the cause of the affair, but there are defects that at the very least, serve as inhibitors to the betrayer's motivations to consider working on the marriage.


Keep repeating to yourself, OW is not the cause, she's the symptom. There was room for OW because things were broken between you and H's needs (and probably yours too) were not being adequately met. If you focus on OW and the affair, then those root causes will not get their due consideration and you will be back here.

It's easy to feel indignant and self-righteous about what's happened, and to take out your anger on H. That will feel good in the moment, but as Crazyville points out, it may not feel good longer term, and you need to take the longer view right now.

Do a gut check -- what do you REALLY want? Do you want H back and your marriage improved, or do you want to punish H for what he has done and move on alone? Consider that, decide, and then make sure your actions are consistent with your goals.

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014

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#2233394 - 03/26/12 01:26 PM Re: Needing some guidance... [Re: Accuray]
jks Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 623
Loc: USA
Thank you, Accuracy. I am at an all time low right now. I got sick this morning and H is sick so he still hasn't picked up the kids so I am physically sick and exhausted and emotionally sick and exhausted.

I know in my gut that I want this marriage. I just feel if I focus on that then I am setting myself up to get hurt again. I was in such a good place mentally and was getting used to the idea of H being out of my life and now I have to start all over again.

One thing that has been a huge concern of mine is that my H left our religion when he left me. This is huge because in our religion, like most, we do not believe in adultery. And there are severe consequences for having one. A huge repentance process that he will have to go through. I'm concerned because I want to be with someone who shares my same spiritual and religious views and wants to raise a family with these views. When we were married, we were both on the same page with this.

I struggle because I want to express how important this is to me still... and let him know that had he stayed committed to our religion, God would never have led him down this path. If he still believes in his heart that our religion is still not for him then I don't know that I can continue with him.

So my struggle is to know whether to bring this up right now or not.
_________________________
Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.



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#2233403 - 03/26/12 02:08 PM Re: Needing some guidance... [Re: jks]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2088
There are three things to think about here:

1) Do you want to be married to H and go forward with him or not? Spend some time thinking about this and decide on your timeline, there is no rush, and there is no right answer, only the answer that is right for you.

If you do decide to move forward with H, then you must accept him as he is, which means that whatever religion he chooses to follow has to be OK with you, you cannot control that. You can decide not to be with him if the religion is a dealbreaker, but it's not fair to H to expect him to change because of what you believe, and it's generally not a good idea to start a relationship with the expectation that you can change the other person or that they will change to suit your desires.

The only person you can change is yourself, and by changing yourself, you can change the dynamics of your relationship, but that is different than changing H. My guidance would be to ask yourself could you love H and be married to him even if he did NOT embrace your religion, or would that be a deal breaker for you?

2) You feel you are setting yourself up to be hurt again because your trust has been destroyed. Of course you can't trust him right now, he's proven himself untrustworthy and you haven't forgiven him. What I can tell you is that if you work together on your marriage, and ensure you're on a path where your mutual needs are being met, trust CAN be restored. As a matter of fact, your marriage can be stronger than it was before for having gone through this ordeal. You will be better educated and more aware of what it takes to make a marriage good than someone who never had to struggle, that's the gift you take from this. Read "The Five Love Languages" if you haven't already. If you can apply that book to your relationship, you can pretty much "affair proof" your marriage. Therefore, if you decide to go forward, you will need to have faith that you can forgive H eventually, and that you will be able to trust H eventually. You don't need to do those things now, but you have to have faith that it can happen.

3) Affairs are as old as marriage. The fact that your religion has a prescription for them is because it's been a constant problem throughout history. I listened to a great audio program, I believe by David Schnarch talking about marriage. He said that as humans, we are programmed to want to have many sexual partners, but we are also programmed to want to pair bond and enjoy emotional security. This is a natural tension that is part of who we are. He said that we all face a "two choice dilemma", we want the ability to engage in many exciting romances for ourselves, but we also want a spouse who will be faithful to us to deliver emotional security -- so we're tempted by the best of both worlds. When we get married, we're making a contract that says "I will forgo pursuing the romances I want in exchange for the emotional security of pair bonding". That's not to say that the desire for new romance goes away, just that we're agreeing not to pursue it.

Now as to whether "God led him down this path", that's something I wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole smile

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014

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#2233409 - 03/26/12 02:25 PM Re: Needing some guidance... [Re: Accuray]
jks Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 623
Loc: USA
Wow... thank you. I think you might be my saving grace right now. I will be thinking about all of this and I'm going to try my hardest not to let my emotions get the best of me.

I agree that we can be so much stronger for having gone through this and I know he sees that too. What a mess...
_________________________
Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.



Top
#2233417 - 03/26/12 02:50 PM Re: Needing some guidance... [Re: jks]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2088
Also know that things could be sooooo much worse -- I don't know if that helps or not. The people on this board who seem to suffer the most are witness to ongoing affairs that last a year or more. During that time, the spouse just wants out, so the LBS are not able to ask ANY questions, or project any anger, or anything else if they want to continue to DB. They just have to smash it down, "act as if", and eventually learn to detach while their spouse continues to go about their business.

In my sitch, my W was non-apologetic. From her perspective, she was going to ask me for a divorce anyway, so having an affair wasn't really a betrayal. Had I expressed anger or tried to shame her, she just would have left.

In addition, it was OM who decided to end the affair. Either he got caught by his W, or had a crisis of conscious and he went "no contact". That left my W hurt, angry, and grieving her lost love. She took a lot of that out on me at the point that I was hurting the most, so I had to deal with my own grief and hers on top.

I think it's a very good sign that your H says he wants to end it and is being conciliatory. Often for people who get on this board, their spouse has almost no feelings left for them, just a very week flame that is easily snuffed out by the slightest missteps.

It does appear that your H does love you -- you had some issues in your marriage and he made a very bad mistake. If you love him and he loves you, that's a great place to start from.

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014

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