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#2232743 - 03/23/12 12:38 AM Re: Considering Quixote [Re: 25yearsmlc]
danielf Offline
Member

Registered: 03/05/12
Posts: 128
I was usually trying to focus on satisfying W. I'm not saying that I was a selfish lover, focussed on using W to satisfy my appetite, and preferred to get it an easier way. I'm saying selfishness was easier than focussing on her. Also, we weren't really sex-starved; we ML at least weekly.
On the kids, I did my best to help out, especially at night. I of course acknowledge that the stress was affecting both of us. And yes, we didn't have the tools to deal with it effectively.
I was about to regret that now we don't have the time to learn the tools, but then I remembered where I was. Time is on my side, and it takes one to tango.
_________________________
Me:33, W:32
D:11, S:10, S8
M:12

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#2232846 - 03/23/12 04:13 PM Re: Considering Quixote [Re: danielf]
danielf Offline
Member

Registered: 03/05/12
Posts: 128
We had a big R talk last night.

I felt like it generally went very well. We talked about the past and the future. It was a deep talk between friends; stayed calm and friendly. We went over a lot of what I'd been seeing about the past, about how we didn't deal effectively with a lot of the very stressful stuff in M. I don't know that either of us agreed to anything, but she was saying she might be willing to stay here for a year for me and the kids, and I said I might be willing to do the birds-nest custody schedule. We talked about my struggles and hers with bulimia and the similarities, etc. Afterwards, I gave her a good hug, which is more affection than we've shared in over a month.

One huge negative is she lied straight-out about her R and plans w/OM. I challenged a bit, but I couldn't tell her I've been spying on her facebook (I really need to stop that!!) so I just let it go. They are leaving to go back there tomorrow for spring break, and I'm 90% sure they are coming back after that. She said to me she has no plans w/OM, but they totally have plans.

I know I broke some DB rules, but I think I did pretty well. I think I am strong enough to hang out in limbo, but if she is ready to talk, then I have to engage or stonewall.

Next week, besides really focusing on GAL and 180s while I'm home alone, I think I will also buy my first coaching pack.
Thank you guys. Let me know what you think.
_________________________
Me:33, W:32
D:11, S:10, S8
M:12

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#2232848 - 03/23/12 04:46 PM Re: Considering Quixote [Re: danielf]
Biker9363 Offline
New Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 14
Loc: Northern California
If you know she is flat out lying to you, how can you trust anything she is saying to you in regards to R? It sounds like you are believing what you want to believe, despite contrary evidence staring you in the face.

If she really is interested in R, she needs to go No-contact with the OM immediately. And she needs to be transparent. You should not need to spy on her facebook page, you should look at it to see that she is staying true to her course.

Stop letting her make all the decisions. You are a full partner and need to step up and lead here. Don't allow her to set the course of your marriage because she is still trying to cake-eat. She's got you for the day-to-day stuff and the OM for her emotional/sexual needs. Is that a satisfying setup for you?

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#2232856 - 03/23/12 05:34 PM Re: Considering Quixote [Re: danielf]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10919
Loc: west coast
sorry I can't post more now but YES to the coaching package.


It was the single best thing I did to make it through our crisis. They are specific and solution based.

Stop snooping. See how it did NOT help you?

Same with the semi-confronting. You are testing her and that sets you both up for failure.

If she lies, "she's a liar" and you feel like crap. If she confesses to something real with OM, then it's out there

and all the work she sees you doing on yourself appears tactical and as if

you "suddenly care ONLY b/c there's competition"... Like it's only b/c you want

to "win", not change for real.


See, if you KNEW w/ 100% certainty that any type of affair would definitively end the marriage, then I could see the need to know.

I"d disagree with you but I'd understand...and

then and only then, would snooping make sense to me.


BUT if your goal is to win her back by being the better choice, how does it help you to have details?


Makes it harder for you to focus on YOUR work which is all you control. The more you focus on what she might be doing/thinking/feeling/planning

the slower your own work progresses, if at all.

Finally, due to the distance from OM, AND her willingness to stick around for a year w/you...I'm not sure the OM means that much to her for real.

But hey, I didn't see the FB messages. I just know you have the gift of TIME to show her the changes....

how do you want to spend that time?

You'll get some advice to confront and give an ultimatum. See what the DB books say about ultimatums...(they don't like them).

I heard of it working to get a WAW home...once.

Fifty or more other DBers who did that, had it backfire.

I'm not saying to never address this issue. I'm saying for sure NOT NOW

and if/when you do it, have a realistic goal for what you expect.

Thinking she'll volunteer to end it AND then follow through, is MUCH less likely than her hiding it more & lying better,

or her just leaving you b/c she feels cornered by you.


***The more people you discuss this with, also hurts the cause.

Your need to relieve your guilt cannot come at more cost to HER. (The porn public confessions confused me as to their purpose. I think you said She was quite humiliated. And that hurt your m. Do you agree?

Same goes for "exposing the affair". It Looks punitive, (& usually is, although disguised with self righteousness). And it ALWAYS backfires.

And remember this, since you want the marriage to be reconciled.

You need to KEEP THE ROAD HOME, PAVED & SMOOTH"...


so don't make it harder for her than it already would be, by telling others.


But Ask the DB coaches.


Discuss that^^^ w/them so you'll be ready when you obsess OR get conflicting advice here which makes it harder.
My BDB Coachi was a Godsend, exactly who I needed at that exact time in my life

more later, but good luck!
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

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#2232978 - 03/24/12 04:56 AM Re: Considering Quixote [Re: 25yearsmlc]
danielf Offline
Member

Registered: 03/05/12
Posts: 128
Tomorrow morning, W and kids go off for spring break.
I think I am being a bit passive-aggressive on a couple of things. She dropped her phone and cracked the screen, and hasn't really asked me to fix it, but passive-aggressively talked about it. I don't want to fix her damn phone. She communicates w/OM with it. So I just kinda act dumb when she talks about it being broken.
And then tonight I brought her laptop up and said we were switching. She's been using mine, because it's better (I don't use hers much, though). I like this laptop, and if we are separating, I'd like to keep this one.
What do you guys think?

Also, I think that I will do the birds-nesting. She is willing to do the first turn away when they get back from vaca, so can't make it look in court like I abandoned. I'm excited to have two weeks at a time to really work on me, then two weeks at a time to really work on being a Dad.
But she is pretty fixated on us doing the "easy D" where we file together. In our heart2heart, I told her I almost want to do that because I understand that she hates that I am just sitting up on my high and righteous perch and she feels like she has to do the dirty work. So maybe I should really think about this: maybe I should choose what I want to do or not do, rather than doing what I think I should or shouldn't do. I don't want a divorce. It's not that I don't want to break a personal rule, I just don't want the whole thing to happen. But then am I just denying reality?
Legal stuff: 2-party D is worlds different here than 1-party. I don't know that she would be willing to stay here for another year if I closed that door.
Confession, my D10 asked what I wanted and I said "I want to be married to your Mom." Can't you stop her from D you? "No, for a M to work, both people have to want to be in it." I didn't tell her about OM, though.
On disclosure, I said earlier that W was the one who told the world about OM. Up until that point, I was talking to minister and friends about our M problems but only about porn. I kept her secret somewhat. And on sharing about that, it's not like I post about it on FB or talk to everyone about it. But being open to several guys is a key cornerstone in my recovery. I had posted early in my sitch that I'd love advice about our too-public issues and how to minimize how that tears up the path home.
Oh, and one more thing: W has been asked to speak w/minister before returning to church. Advice for the future, do I bite my lip if she lies to him?
_________________________
Me:33, W:32
D:11, S:10, S8
M:12

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#2232985 - 03/24/12 07:39 AM Re: Considering Quixote [Re: danielf]
danielf Offline
Member

Registered: 03/05/12
Posts: 128
Originally Posted By: gucci loafer

FIRST rule of getting tough....

I WILL NOT SHARE a woman of mine with another man.
PERIOD. END OF STORY. NOTHING TO TALK ABOUT.


It isn't up for negotiation. IF you want and choose him then so be it. I will be perfectly fine without you and as a matter of fact I think this is for the best.
...
Now.. What to do?

Become distant until she asks if somehting is wrong or what is up with you.

Then prepare this speech.

"I have been doing some thinking and here is “what I have decided” (be decisive because women are attracted to and respect decisive men)

I have decided that I want you to move out. The sooner the better. I don’t know what I have been thinking and now can’t believe that I have tolerated for so long you wanting to be with another man. I haven’t been perfect as a husband, but I do believe I have done my best to love you and to be a good man.

However, that doesn’t matter now. That was then and this is now. I want you to find a place and be out of here by_______"(give her a small window to move out)

Don't be mean and don't be punitive. Firm and strong and confident in your new position. Don't back down.

Don’t put it up for negotiation. Be firm and resolved that SHE must move out and that
you WANT her out as soon as possible. Move forward on the divorce and stay strong by going for whatever is fair in the dealings regarding financials and such…
...
That is tough love. She will never respect you if you keep allowing this because you are too scared to put the whole relationship on the line and risk losing her for good. She needs to wonder if she lost YOU in this process. Let her worry about how she is going to make ends meet and let the OM worry that now that he HAS is opportunity if he can step up to the plate and support HER..

That’s it….. Strong, confident, firm, and YOU DO NOT SHARE.


The above is from a really old thread I was reading on these forums. This site is a gold mine when you dig in.

I'm seriously considering filling out the D papers while she is gone and handing them to her with something like the above when she gets back.
A few things...
Yes, I know I would have to be serious. I know I would have to mean it.
Do I really want this MR to survive? Yes I do. Totally.
But what he said about being strong enough to put things on the line really speaks to me.
I agree w/25yrs, this ultimatum will probably not turn out well. But my wife is leaving in a few hours to have a spring fling with her paramour!!!!

Opposing view, I have time. I can wait out her romp and craziness. Then, if/when she comes around, we can start the long hard process of clearing away the wreckage and building a new M. There is the woman I married somewhere lost in that jumbled confusion, and for her and our children and for commitment and love, reconciliation is the best path.

I've got a week to decide. A real man doesn't make decisions by committee (something I've been guilty of before), but I invite your advice. I got Love Must Be Tough, and hopefully that will give me some guidance, too. And prayer. Lots of prayer.

And either (any) road I choose, I will be building myself into a better man.
That is said so often around here, it feels a bit cliche. But I really feel like a lion is awakening inside of me.
_________________________
Me:33, W:32
D:11, S:10, S8
M:12

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#2233074 - 03/24/12 09:07 PM Re: Considering Quixote [Re: danielf]
danielf Offline
Member

Registered: 03/05/12
Posts: 128
I know I'm flipping all over the place. The goal is to get rid of all the indecision before each move.
_________________________
Me:33, W:32
D:11, S:10, S8
M:12

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#2233162 - 03/25/12 03:10 PM Re: Considering Quixote [Re: danielf]
danielf Offline
Member

Registered: 03/05/12
Posts: 128
Or at least trade some indecision for some resolve.
_________________________
Me:33, W:32
D:11, S:10, S8
M:12

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#2233230 - 03/26/12 12:59 AM Re: Considering Quixote [Re: danielf]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10919
Loc: west coast
Originally Posted By: danielf
Or at least trade some indecision for some resolve.


you are in transition so the "certainty" you seek is an illusion.

Your feelings will change often. So will your w's.

Get a DB coach.


IMO your discussion w/your d was really inappropriate. Next time ask a DB coach or mc before you blurt out such destructive information.


You made your w the bad guy, which is uncool. Although in your mind she is the bad guy,

you are being unfair and acting like you have amnesia. You believe the marriage was fine and you were a great h and for some selfish inexplicable reason your w chose to cheat?

She never did before and she is not normally a liar but all this is on her?

The other reason you were not right to do it is thinking ahead...your d is either a fan or your w or a soon to be rebellious child.

You think your d won't ask her mom what is going on?

She will!! Maybe She will lash out at her mom...or ask questions about what SHE did wrong in the marriage....b/c after all "daddy said he did not want the divorce"...

and THEN YOUR wife will bring up your porn problems, and other issues...


how will your d see you then?

No one said you have to LIE for your w about OM, but you almost sounded proud for not telling your d...

so let me be clear about this

if you do tell her or anyone else like your d, you will regret it.

It will hurt YOU far more than it will hurt your w.

I hope you can figure out why that is the case. I am familiar with Gucci's threads. He has helped men who were doormats before but that's not you.

But you seem to think your w's affair happened in a vacuum while she was in a fulfilling happy m.

Not so. Don't get amnesia now, when you really need to show your w that you have dug deep and are a new changed man. YOu have the gift of time to show her this and you'll get some breaks from having her in your face 24/7...

use this time wisely. Lovingly and with dignity and strength and honor.

Back to the kids....

The standard focus is to make sure the children know what will NOT change IN THEIR LIVES...stress what remains the same for them.

Same house, no moving, same friends, same school, same neighborhood, etc. How often they'll see each of you. Give details and predictability.

Also -
My DB coach told me to say this when asked about a poss divorce.

First off, unless you are actually about to file, do not say it is for sure happening.

It's okay to say "I don't know yet"...b/c things change all the time. Even after filing.

If they ask "are you getting a divorce?"

you may Answer 1) "I don't know yet, but I hope not, b/c w is the love of my life...

2) "Hope not b/c I have loved spouse for such a long time..."

3) "hope not. But no matter what, I'm so glad we did marry

b/c we have YOU and I'd do it all over again in a heartbeat if that's the only way to get a special child like YOU...

you end each answer with a reassuring comment to the child about how loved they are.


Make sense?
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

Top
#2233231 - 03/26/12 01:03 AM Re: Considering Quixote [Re: 25yearsmlc]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10919
Loc: west coast
if I recall Gucci's situation

or the situation he was referring to, the h had been attentive but the w was having a MLC and being unreasonable. Her h tried pleasing her and changing for her for some time before issuing that statement...

and in his case his wife DID know he'd been a good man on the whole and she did come back.

I don't mean to blast you okay? I just think you still minimize how much damage your porn and other issues did to the marriage

and I can't see her choosing you at this point. If that's alright with you, then let it end.

But if you believe you can/will change into the man you were meant to become

and not a genetic replica of your dad, then change into that man FIRST

and see how you feel later. PLEASE GET A DB COACH...

YOU WILL NOT REGRET IT....best money I ever spent. Much cheaper than divorce

and better for you, better for your kids and better for the cause
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

Top
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