W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore-P2

[MrBond]

"but I have not been arrogant with her and I feel that your judgement in that regard is wrong."

Read your first sentence in your response about the alcoholism. Rather than understanding it, and then dealing with it, you talk about how you won't tolerate it.

"How do I go around a communication problem?"

That's what you haven't spent enough time figuring out.

"She filed D on me and lies about it, she kicks me off her insurance and doesn't tell me, she books a trip that I will have to watch my S for 2 weeks and she fails to tell me about it, she lies about what she is doing when we were suppose to talk, and on on. This is what I would call games."

Games would imply there was malicious intent. There isn't any. Your W expressed to you that she was thinking about working things out, which put alot of expectations on her. I don't think you fully realize she does all that stuff without telling you because she's afraid. You haven't made it safe enough for her to open up to you. No games, just fear.

That's part of the "communication" problem. It's not that she can't communicate, she's afraid to communicate with you. It doesn't matter if you can't see it, the issue is that she can.

I still see you salvaging this, but you're going to need a great deal more understanding and compassion and PATIENCE. But that's my opinion.

[Snowman]

Kaffe,

That is something that I can commit to with the caveat that if she does take the road of divorce I obviously just can't sit by and let her control the whole situation but other than that yes I could do it. It will be hard as heck to do because I will have many people riding my butt to take action but it is my choice.

I'm not sure how long I would let it go but I could probably do a month or two.

Now what to say in the letter. I will have to write a draft, review it, and write it again.

[~ kd ~]

Understandable, snowman. You can deal with your position at that time, IF she files.

Let me provide one possible option on the letter you are about to write.

Take away all your frustrations right now about not being able to work through things with her.

Imagine she died. We had a tragic situation last fall on this site, where a member's estranged W committed suicide, just as it appeared there may have been having breakthroughs. The member and his children lost the opportunity to truly express how they felt to this woman who was living in her own private pain.

What if that were you?

How would you write a letter to your W, were she gone from you in that way.

And then, how would you write the letter if you knew this was the last chance you could ever express to her, how you felt and what you would do to change things if you could have one, last chance to be with her.

For a moment... Imagine that...

Write your letter, Snowman. And then be at peace with it, as though it is the last and final time you would ever be able to communicate with your W and let her know how you felt... deep inside your pain...

[sgctxok]

Snow,

Always keep YOUR goals in front of you. When things are getting difficult and tense, lots of advice pops up and many folks feel strongly and advise others 'strongly'.

The truth is, only you know your situation. No one on the board is an expert except for Michele and the DB Coaches. Folks giving you advice only hear YOUR side of the story and only the pieces you tell. You can pick up a momentum that is hard to reverse, especially when talking about things like financial strategies.

Be careful, be wise. While it is good to focus on self care and protect yourself when you are in the LRT, focusing ONLY on your own interests may not put you in a position to save your marriage (and I'm not suggesting that you are doing that, just reading some of the advice here).

Take a step back. Assess what you REALLY want, best case. THEN plan your actions.

Wishing you the BEST.

[Snowman]

Kaffe,

My W has already filed on me and says she has papers to give me but she has not yet. Many months ago we had agreed on doing the stipulation route vs. fighting it out in court. I'm not sure if that's what papers she has for me but she claims to have them.

The letter will either push her to give them to me or retract the whole thing. If no action is taken from 120 days that she filed (12-30-11) then the filing expires. I really don't want to go that long by any means.

I do like the perspective of the letter that you propose as it removes resentment and negative thoughts. I thought my W would be affected by her mother's near death experience during this but it barely phased her. You can read my old posts to read about that.

Am I suppose to post the letter on here 1st for review?

I will work on the letter this week when I don't have my S.

sgctxok,

Thanks for your insight, I agree completely. I can only tell bits & pieces of the story because typing it would take a novel. I don't like people making harsh judgements about me or other people on here when they have never met the person and only have tiny pieces of stories (Mr. Bond).

I will need to step back and assess really what I want. In general I want to stay with my W but not in my old marriage as that one is dead. I want a new marriage with improvements in me and changes in her without the current lifestyle that she is living. I obviously need to go a lot deeper than this but on the surface this is what I would want.

I'm afraid that my family could NEVER trust or take back my W after all that has transpired and lets just say this is not the first rodeo in my family of a situation like this. My family is very forgiving and has a diverse background of people/problems among the relatives but the pain caused to me and my family that loved my W so deeply has cut them very deep. My family was her family because hers was not to her. Yet another underlying issue to what I think my W's issues are (I know I'm speculating but I'm only that can do that as I have most of the story and you the reader do not).

[~ kd ~]

Am I suppose to post the letter on here 1st for review?

I believe you have a good basis and frame for the letter. And understand that if you post here, you will get feedback.

Between you and I, I trust you are committed to having the letter come from your heart with positive and supportive intention for your W.

If you would like to post it here, that is up to you. All I ask is you post when you've sent the letter so we can start the clock.

[MrBond]

Don't know why you keep saying that I don't understand your whole sitch, etc. when all I'm doing is repeating what you wrote out. Maybe you're missing the point. You still insist on believing things a certain way (like your W is toying with you or playing games) and I'm just offering a different perspective. If what you've been doing isn't working, maybe it's time to think of it a different way. Sometimes you should try understanding different perspectives to grow.

But that's up to you.

[25yearsmlc]

Snowman

I'm sorry you got papers...FYI - in this state about 1/3 of divorces that get filed are never completed...so don't lose all hope yet.


just curious, with all the talk about your w going to c, and yet not going...have you sought out counselling for your issues?

You mention that you have some and are changing but I never saw a single 180 listed...at least not in this thread..

But really look inward, bravely and dig deep, b/c that's where the real journey is.

And listen to what Bond says...to me, you do come off as hyper bossy and controlling and on this thread, you see nearly every single thing your w does, in the most negative light possible.

And you make most of it about you...no offense but that is how it hit me.

If her aunt is paying for her trip to London, why does that take away from you? B/c you get your son for more nights? Okay...she told you this in response to you telling her you were going to Hawaii without son, right? Soooo....Why is it fair for you but not for her?

You pushed for r talks on the anniversary or at a dinner, but I didn't get that's what she wanted at all. She agreed to it after you kept asking and then you did the anti-DB way and pushed her for R talk and then found it "less than satisfactory". IF all you two do is have R talk and no fun or companionhip, is it so surprsing?

See to ME you have not been at this very long...but your m is shorter so maybe that's the difference.

I think she felt pressured. Not that you "bully" her but you do come across on this thread as very forceful...and critical and impatient. Sorry!!

When your BIL criticized her, I would have preferrred that you not join in or better yet you stand up for her. I'd be anything it gets back to her, eventually, that you chimed in...he was destructive to call you as well but he wanted to get an ally against her. How healthy is that?

Remember one thing.

If your w does not believe marriage to you can change and be better and different,

she won't come back. Simple...not easy, but not complicated.

So how are you revealing the changes that would occur in your own behavior?


what are your 180s and the traits you are working to change in you?

[Snowman]

Before response to the various posts I must say I received a disappointing news about my W's trip to London (my negative light I guess). That news is that she has decided to book the trip during my S's birthday. I was ok with her going as that's her choice not mine but doing it right during her S's birthday speaks volumes to me as to where her priorities are. I know I'm going on a trip without my S but I bought the ticket with miles, have a free place to stay, doing it with family, I can actually afford it, and I was upfront with my W about it. On the flip side my W will be using credit cards for her trip (besides the ticket he Grandma is paying for and all the kids borrow money from), London is crazy expensive, she is going with girlfriends which will = lots of drinking, and she is now going during her only S's birthday. I'm passing judgement but I'm not the only one as everyone and I mean everyone says that same whether I should care what they say or not.

Mr. Bond, I didn't say you did or didn't understand the stitch. I said people pass judgement about who I am with knowing only bits or pieces of the story. I guess I just don't like your approach. You don't pass judgement on someone you have never met and then say why don't you see it from my perspective. I don't think that would work in any world. Kaffe provides constructive criticism and it feels like you just provide criticism. Your judgement calls drowned out you advice to me whether it is valid or not. I will work on understanding your perspective if you will understand my when it comes to your approach .

25yearsmlc, I'm trying to not loose hope. This is classic to only knowing bits of the story. I have mentioned earlier in my stitch that I went to IC for many visits. I got to a point were my C said to only call if I felt like I needed to because I had progressed so much. I probably should go back for a visit or 2 more but I did a lot of counseling for many months in this stitch.

As far as the anniversary talks or whatever it was, my W and I discussed talking about us so that's what I thought we were going to do. I know now that apparently that was not the case. You can beat me on the head or whatever else but I can' read her freaking mind which is part of the problem because she never communicates what she wants to me nor does she keep simple promises or commitments. We changed our schedule of sharing my S for her school which I agreed too but it made it so I would always have my son at the beginning of the week. Well we pay our daycare at the beginning of the week so I pointed that out so she could give me the check for daycare for her week or pay on Friday. Her we are Monday and she failed to do either so now I will be paying in hopes that she will pay me as she said she would. I could go on but I will refrain as its all just me passing judgement on someone who continues act irresponsible financial or otherwise, sorry that's how I see it.

She just asked me for her Itunes login which I happily provided her and then she asked for mine to authorize my songs on her new computer and I even went out on the limb to do that even though she could possibly buy songs with my account. I offered to copy our whole music collection from our home computer so she would have it. She said that would be awesome.

My BIL inviting me over was not to get allies as this BIL was my W closest sibling. He is disappointed as everyone else is. He did not bash her but he also didn't sure coat it when telling me that my W is yelling the F'word at him on Christmas Eve. I actually had a great time with my BIL and we on briefly talked about my W.

My 180's or traits to change:
-Spend max time with my son and make him top priority
-Be less controlling
-Be happy no matter the things around me
-Get more fit (Not doing so good but part of that is my lots of time with my S, no excuse I know.)
-Let go or detach once again (Probably never did)
-Enjoy and get involved in my hobbies

I can admit I'm not the type that works well with someone smacking me on the head with judgement, criticism, or anything else and then tell me to change. I more in the lines of you show me how much you care before I care how much you know (this will probably be used against me). I can now hear someone saying that's what you need to do with my W and I agree but I have apparently failed to know how to break the barrier of being able to do this.

My MIL is still convinced that her daughter is mentally ill which I can't really say one way or another. It hard to argue against someone's own mother that has known her daughter her whole life until now.

For now I'm going to work on the letter unless people oppose this idea??

[~ kd ~]

Hey snowman, just skimmed your post. I agree with your statement that your W certainly has different priorities. Also interesting that her grandmother lent her the money. I'm wondering if her grandmother knows she's going to be away for her S's b-day.

I haven't been here near as long as some of the "regulars", but I will say I've certainly read a lot more messed up stuff from some of the WASs. And even if your W's actions aren't high on the ranks of messed up... well... as you said... her priorities are curious...

It remains if you still want and will write the letter. And as much as this revelation may effect the content of your letter, be aware of that possibility... If this information is going to change the context of the letter, then put that on the shelf.

If that's the case, this is one of those moments when we take a step back, count to 8,263 and think for a couple days before coming to any decisions.

If you can still write the letter from the same context you committed to, then by all means... carry on...