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#2249394 - 05/29/12 10:27 AM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: Starsky309]
greenblue90 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 685
Hey 25
Not sure if you saw it but I put in a quick update of the sitch on page 7 of this thread. One of my non-negotiables was that the whole open thing had to stop. Also sex been used as a weapon had to stop too. I made it very clear that she was not going to treat me that way and if she didn't like it the door was open. She almost walked through it a few times. Those were pretty painful times.

Respect is now my #1 thing, and she knows it. It's also been the foundation for all the positive things in our relationship.

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#2249396 - 05/29/12 10:34 AM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: greenblue90]
greenblue90 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 685
I guess my approach was the boiled frog approach.

"you can drop a live frog in a hot pot of water and it'll instantly jump out, or you can put it in cold pot of water and slowly raise the heat until it slowly boils to death"

Based on her state if you demand a lot she'll most likely leave, I pieced out my non-negotiables over time. It makes them seem less overwhelming, and you can build upon your successes.

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#2249449 - 05/29/12 01:03 PM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: greenblue90]
Jack_Three_Beans Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 11333
Navy,

Lots of people telling you what to do.

Ultimately; what do you want in regard to your relationship with your wife?
_________________________

Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis

Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans

Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK

TRUST THE PROCESS - Cadet


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#2249472 - 05/29/12 02:07 PM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: Jack_Three_Beans]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10537
Loc: west coast
just to be clear,

When I advise Navy to "move on", it's with the sincere desire that it wakes his wife up.

I want things to work out for them, but they have not. He's pulled his weight and hers, for a long time now. Nothing has improved, and a certain deterioration has evolved. Now she also drinks too much, and the kids get to see that, too. I assume she'll blame Navy for "the stress of marriage to him" what with him being kind to her, doing the bulk of the housework and childcare and paying the bills...how difficult for her.

( hey, I AM the wife of a man who's going off to the middle east soon, and as tough as it will be on me and the kids, trust me when I say, I do NOT complain to him or hold it against him...though I do like hearing the words "thank you" a lot lately.)

If his moving on (in whatever form it takes) does wake her up, we'll all jump on board to help him in Piecing.

But my gut says it'd take her a long LONG time to tell Navy she'd blown it, due to the fact that she's convinced herself that Navy is responsible for her self induced misery AND b/c of her stubborn pride.


So if she doesn't wake up after he moves on, it's my opinion that she never would have anyhow. ---So---

The sooner he is in a healthier life situation, the better for him and his kids.

In sum, yes I see that it's pretty much like an ultimatum, yes. AND If Navy's ready for it, I say okay. Honestly, how can it make things worse? What is she going to do? Say mean things to him? She already does. File for divorce? She already says she wants to and will eventually, except for the kids - which I no longer buy as her excuse for not leaving--

b/c 1) I think she wants HIM to file or leave so she isn't the responsible party b/c she's GREAT at avoiding any and all accountability

and 2)

she's not exactly mom of the year lately. So I'm cynically suggesting she's in the marriage for the money, a roof over her head and tuition bills being paid, and she's biding her time before leaving, at HER convenience.

Even if Navy still wants the m, and I think part of you does, Navy,

I see this as the only thing you have not really tried. Am I missing something?


Navy - as Jack3 says, you need to do what YOU want to do. Choosing the course of action is the tough part-I know,

but Your options APPEAR to be dwindling...

And we all must play the cards we are dealt.

I'll respect your choices and support them as best I can. I think we all would.

((( )))
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

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#2249475 - 05/29/12 02:16 PM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: 25yearsmlc]
Starsky309 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 4823
Loc: Florida
Yep.
_________________________
At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)

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#2249803 - 05/30/12 12:27 PM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: Starsky309]
Navyguy Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/11
Posts: 349
Loc: Northern VA
Hey everyone. Here’s my long overdue update.

As I said before, W’s parents are in town this week, and after they leave I plan to clearly state to W that I am not willing to live like this anymore. I will give her the choice of actively working on our marriage (going to counseling for herself and us), or ending it. Limbo time is over.

I owe you all a lot of answers to questions you’ve asked recently, so I’m going to group them all by person.

Starting w/ 25:

You asked What do YOU think it'll take for HER to get the message that my days with her are numbered?
Over the past month, I have been very distant from W, and she has noticed that. Her actions continue to show me that I am about the lowest possible priority of all people and things in her life. I have not been nice to her and have told her 3 times in the last month that I am tired of living this way and that this is no way for anyone to live. She continues to interpret that as an attack on her – me telling her that she is a bad person for not loving me. Basically, she is not listening to me at all, and jumping to conclusions before I even speak. Anyways, she is now fully aware of my discontent and unwillingness to continue this way, and I am fairly sure she is expecting me to tell her I am done with her. Once I tell her next week of her choice she has to make, she will have the message crystal clear. I will not let her give me lip service and tell me she wants to work on this and then do nothing. She will have to take visible action and show visible progress. I will not put up with the bones I have been thrown for the past year and a half anymore. You mentioned an EE workshop. What is that?

You said that the main thing she has to realize, which she does NOT yet know, is that you are a fine, lovable/loving man who deserves better treatment--AND that you WILL GET BETTER TREATMENT whether from her or someone else, b/c Navy, there are women out there who want to love and be loved.

I'm so sorry to say this but, Evidently, Your w is NOT one of them, (when it comes to YOU), at least for now...and what's worse, is that she shows no signs of wanting to love or be loved by you.


I couldn’t agree more. It’s funny. One of the things she ALWAYS brings up when we get into our “talks” is that I once called her a martyr. Maybe it was something I said in the heat of battle…but boy, was I ever right. (Not that I’ll ever point that out to her again though) &#61514; I am sick of living this miserable life and I just want to be happy. I want W to be happy too, but that’s going to be up to her.

You asked: Navy, do you believe, down deep, that you are a man another woman could love?

Did you date much before w?

I know you are in good shape, and I uniforms flatter all men...but are you --attractive? You clearly are smart and into being a dad. Those are very attractive traits...so, what is up with this insecurity of yours that I sense? Is it just fear of the unknown of bad past experiences? IF it's the latter, maybe you dated other high maintenance or nasty or unhealthy women..

in which case you can learn Not to do that again...


I know that I am a man another woman could love. And I strongly believe that I will be a great husband to her. And I think that a lot of the reason I think that is because of my sitch and my DB experience. I have learned so much. I know I had some flaws, and I probably still do – but that is ok. Someone that truly loves me will be willing to work through those with me, instead of letting them fester until they are “done”. I did not date much before W. A couple very short (< 1 month) relationships was it. The girl I chased for years in college and I were never officially together. There are a lot of parallels between that R and my M (mostly that I was being used and taken advantage of, and giving 1000x more love than I got back). I think the college R did scar me a bit (i.e. insecurity), and I jumped in feet first with the first woman that I met afterwards. I had found someone that liked me, and I was scared to death that I would lose her…fear controlled my actions. I don’t think that W was a mistake, but I do think I chose to ignore some major red flags early in our R/M as a result of my fear of not being able to find anyone else. I think I am in a good place in order to avoid repeating this sitch – but if things do end with W, I will definitely be doing some more IC and that will be near the top of my list on things to discuss (probably right below taking care of my kids and making sure I am staying mentally healthy).

For Mother’s Day, I got W a card from each of the kids and a little “mom’s coupon book” that has stuff the kids and I can do for her. So far she hasn’t redeemed a single ticket.

You said “you are more comfortable with a miserable present day life then a future of the unknown”.

Bingo. Paralyzed by fear of the (mostly) unknown. The reason I put “mostly” in there is that I know the negative effects a D will have on our kids. While there may be some positives down the road (them seeing a healthy M), there will certainly be some pain (mostly short-term, some long-term) for them associated with a D.

You said “she can't stay AND treat you like she does."

Couldn’t agree more. And when I talk to her about ending our M, I will be inviting her to leave. I absolutely will not allow her to take the kids and go back to Colorado. If she wants to go there alone, that is fine. And if she won’t leave (a very real possibility, as she won’t want to get her own place in Virginia and won’t want to be that far away from the kids) I am probably stuck with her for at least another year (1-year wait for D in Virginia) before we have any kind of resolution.

In sum, yes I see that it's pretty much like an ultimatum, yes. AND If Navy's ready for it, I say okay. Honestly, how can it make things worse? What is she going to do? Say mean things to him? She already does. File for divorce? She already says she wants to and will eventually, except for the kids - which I no longer buy as her excuse for not leaving--

b/c 1) I think she wants HIM to file or leave so she isn't the responsible party b/c she's GREAT at avoiding any and all accountability

and 2) she's not exactly mom of the year lately. So I'm cynically suggesting she's in the marriage for the money, a roof over her head and tuition bills being paid, and she's biding her time before leaving, at HER convenience.

Even if Navy still wants the m, and I think part of you does, Navy,

I see this as the only thing you have not really tried. Am I missing something?


You are not missing a single thing. I have been worried that I am going to give her an ultimatum – but nothing else has worked. She keeps telling me she needs time. She’s had time, and she has done NOTHING to work on our M, except get horrible advice from her recently D’d friend. More on that in a second. She still says she is here just for the kids – I think that she honestly believes that, and thinks that is fair for all of us. Well, she’s wrong. I also think you are dead-on with your comment about her wanting me to be the “bad guy”. She doesn’t want to have to tell her friends and family that she left me – BECAUSE SHE DOESN”T HAVE A GOOD REASON FOR IT!!!!!

Well I have to run to a meeting here and I will get to everyone else’s posts tomorrow. I’m going to see the USA vs. Brazil soccer game tonight – really looking forward to that. Before I go, I wanted to run this by everyone. It’s a text message exchange between W and her recently D’d friend. Yes, I was looking at W’s phone. Oops, sorry. This exchange has happened in spurts over the last month, but started right before W went up to Ohio to attend friend’s dad’s funeral (who W had never met, it was just an excuse to go up there.) Here it goes:

W: Hey, thanks for all your advice and the paper work (D paperwork????). H has been really distant since our talk on my birthday. Maybe he understands now.

Friend: It’s gonna get scary and uncertain. Hang in there! Ur Welcome. I’m here when ya need me!

W: I try myself trying to bring him out of it, but I know I shouldn’t. It this is how he needs to be let go, then I shouldn’t try to change it. Thanks for being there for me.

Friend: Well u can tell him if needs to talk to seek an outsider that right now a part of you wants to be there as a friend because it’s who you are. In the future because he is the father of your children you’ll be able to vent and talk but it would be healthier for him to seek out someone else right now.

W: That is true and I keep telling myself to give him space, but I feel horrible doing that. Thanks, that’s great advice.

Friend: You’re gonna find it hard to find that balance and living your new “roles”. I still struggle. It’s normal and ok don’t feel horrible.


This “friend” has told me multiple times that she’s trying to help save our M. What a 2-faced (insert 4 or 5 letter word of your choosing here). I don’t think it’s a coincidence that our real M problems started about the same time she met this “friend. Here’s one more little convo between them:

W: So Tuesday I woke up feeling terrible and I went to the dr office with S3. Then some creepy guy tries to grab me while I’m getting lunch w/ S3. Then that night, H spent what felt like about 2 hours telling me what a disappointment I am and he can’t understand why I came back to make myself miserable. I didn’t say anything while he nicely put me down and told me how miserable he is.

Friend: Breathe!!! Pick one happy moment in your day or the past week and focus on only that! It will carry you through all these feelings you are experiencing. I’m so sorry sweetie. I COMPLETELY understand. FYI. You are NOT horrible. You are the bestest friend and person I know! Love you.


What absolute crap. Apparently “friend” thinks she knows our sitch inside and out. She is taking what she has been through (getting left for another woman by her repeat-offender cheating husband) and telling my W she’s going through the same thing!!! And I’m sure thinking about a rainbow whenever you’re feeling bad really helps fix your problems. She has been feeding my W this crap for the past 5 years. Not sure that there’s much I can do about it at this point…but what a horrible horrible person.

Well, off to my meeting. More to follow.
_________________________
BITS
M: 34
W: 33
T12, M9
D7, S5
ILYBINILY: June 09
Unofficially Separated (long distance): 1/2/11
W came home: 3/17/11
EE: July 2012
Official Member of the Rope-Dropping Club: Oct 2012
Piecing: April 2013

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#2249807 - 05/30/12 12:41 PM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: Navyguy]
MrBond Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/08
Posts: 10689
Have you thought of telling your in laws about your W's drinking problem? Maybe they can arrange an intervention without you.

In the case of your W, the ultimatum won't work. Especially due to the controlled substance abuse she's going through.
_________________________
M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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#2249905 - 05/30/12 04:46 PM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: MrBond]
Navyguy Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/11
Posts: 349
Loc: Northern VA
Bond - what do you mean by "won't work"?
_________________________
BITS
M: 34
W: 33
T12, M9
D7, S5
ILYBINILY: June 09
Unofficially Separated (long distance): 1/2/11
W came home: 3/17/11
EE: July 2012
Official Member of the Rope-Dropping Club: Oct 2012
Piecing: April 2013

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#2249907 - 05/30/12 04:51 PM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: Navyguy]
MrBond Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/08
Posts: 10689
Your ultimatum.

It really sounds like your W is one of those WASs who has to hit absolute rock bottom before she can turn her life around. It's fairly obvious from her drinking problem that the problem isn't you or the M. There's something eating away at her and when you try to engage, that's when she pushes you away.

Have you looked into AA? Try looking up the traits of an alcoholic or read some of the posts from the people here who were alcoholic. They all said they pretty much treated people and their spouses like your W is. However, once the spouse said they had enough and just left (no ultimatum), that's when they started waking up.

Don't offer her a choice. She will just go against it anyway based on history. When she starts calling you names, etc., just tell her straight up that you're not interested in listening to a drunk. Give her a dose of reality and at the same time establish your independence.
_________________________
M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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#2250173 - 05/31/12 02:33 PM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: MrBond]
Navyguy Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/11
Posts: 349
Loc: Northern VA
Bond - I have read up on alcoholism and depression, and the traits match. But...I don't think she's totally out of control. She's definitely cut way back while her parents have been here. I don't think they'd be very helpful in an intervention scenario. W would deny it and they'd take her side.

I see your point with the ultimatum - but I don't want to be the one that leaves, and I don't think I can "kick her out" - how else could I make it work?
_________________________
BITS
M: 34
W: 33
T12, M9
D7, S5
ILYBINILY: June 09
Unofficially Separated (long distance): 1/2/11
W came home: 3/17/11
EE: July 2012
Official Member of the Rope-Dropping Club: Oct 2012
Piecing: April 2013

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