Rather than reading about it, talk to someone about it. That will give you better insight. Your W hiding it when your in-laws are there is typical. And besides, cutting back doesn't mean that she's cured.
You don't have to be the one that leaves. Just tell her what you are planning to do. What is your plan?
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Navy My W has some serious depression issues too; I too struggle with "kicking her to the curb"
All I have to say is that there is a different path, but it's long, even more painful for you. It also is not guaranteed.
Like I said before. Pick something she does you don't like it and put a stop to it, let her know you will not tolerate it. (I'd start with the way she talks to you, especially in front of the kids). Then incrementally up the ante.
Just like me I bet you're scared that if you dump your entire list of grievances she'll run. She probabably will.
Instead have her think "am I willing to leave over this little thing?"
Navy My W has some serious depression issues too; I too struggle with "kicking her to the curb"
All I have to say is that there is a different path, but it's long, even more painful for you. It also is not guaranteed. I still don't get this ^^ GB...Navy wants out- (or if a miracle happens, then for his wife to wake up.)
HE does not expect her to wake up. I don't think anything he does IN the marriage has made a difference and won't now, imo.
He wants to be happy, he's ready to move on to make that happen. What else is he supposed to endure, and for what?
And your advice about upping the ante and "showing her" means what? I'm sorry I don't get it. What, specifically do you think HE is supposed to DO to wake her up? IF suggesting that one of them leave is your advice to him, isn't that the same thing we are telling him? Why should he be "upping the ante" now, when he's already at the end of the rope? HE's been here for YEARS not months...
Like I said before. Pick something she does you don't like it and put a stop to it, let her know you will not tolerate it. (I'd start with the way she talks to you, especially in front of the kids). Then incrementally up the ante. No offense but this^^^ just utterly vague. And what do you think Navy has been doing the past 3 YEARS? Not months...years.
Sure, he tried the patient approach and giving her space. Didn't work. We assumed she'd get treated for her depression but she's a miserable person who lets someone else project THEIR situation onto her and she buys into the whole "She is a victim" mindset that prevents her from having real insight and any change.
Then some time ago Navy began telling her not to talk to him like that and began to assert himself but she's not changing her tune. So telling him to "let her know you will not tolerate it" - uh, Means WHAT?
and "incrementally up the ante" also, means WHAT at this point? Specifically, please...
I see Navy as making real progress and you are advising him as if something novel is being suggested but it's vague and not all that different than what he was told months ago.
To me, this advice isn't new, but it could derail him just as he is making some real decisions about forward movement.
Just like me I bet you're scared that if you dump your entire list of grievances she'll run. She probabably will. I don't think Navy is in that^^ situation GB, I think he's no longer afraid of her running as much as he fears staying in an untenable situation.
As for a grievance list...well, imo, there are few non negotiables in a marriage but his wife has pretty much hit nearly all of them (minus OM).
In any event, I don't see a role for a grievance list in a happy marriage. Having one at all is usually a deathknell for marriage. But since It's a tangent, I'll move on.
Instead have her think "am I willing to leave over this little thing?"
Navy, the other comment I was going to address was Bond's. If I understand Bond's advice, maybe attending an al anon meeting could help. IT is a lot more helpful than reading about the topic.
However- I don't see her drinking as "the straw that broke" your back maritally speaking, so much as
being the reason you no longer see "Staying for the kids" as holding much appeal anymore. I mean, IF she's going to drink a lot, how is sticking it out good FOR the kids? It's not.
If you were to decide to "stick it out" some more, the drinking around the kids would be the minimum requirement you set, but even as I write that I know that
"getting her to stop" drinking...is a lot like saying you may as well "get her to be nice" to you.
In other words, you don't have any control over that.
All you get do control is you and your reaction. But you knew that already.
So, Is this accurate?
I think you're onto something about the friend - but the friend MAY think she's trying to ease the blow and that's her way of helping.
As for the discussions you have w/w, I'd be VERY brief with your w. Keep it all about the kids
b/c from what her friend said,
your w believes you two have had LONG conversations about the R and she thinks YOU were complaining to her about your misery, (per the friend's take on it)
it does mean you are taking too long in the discussions. Be the one to end them too.
Be a lot briefer. Brevity in speech, the economy of words, often makes them more powerful.
Good luck.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I think it's up to navy to tell us, but I the impression he is still very afraid. I don't blame him either it is very hard to walk away. Furthermore it has been my experience from this boards and from myself that whenever there is a respect problem incrementally standing up for yourself can change a dynamic over time.
As for specific examples I can't say since I'm not Navy, but I can relate my own.
My W used to explode over the littlest things. I made it clear that doing that not only would not work in getting me to do things, but it bothered ME and I would not tolerate it.
I promised her I'd do my best to do things like turn off lights, but if I slipped she had no right to lose her temper to the intensity that she did.
Whenever I'd slip up and she'd lose her temper I'd just calmly look at her and say "if you're going to talk to me like this, I'm not going to do it"
On the other hand if she went about things nicely I'd make sure to go out of my way to do things well for her.
When she blamed me for things I would tell her that I was sorry she felt that way, but if she was so unhappy the door was open.
If she stayed, but remained angry with me, I would in the gentlest way possible tell her I care about her and want her to stay, but it she is so miserable, maybe she should leave.
I think for my W she felt trapped by me and the marriage. I have worked hard to make it clear to her that she indeed does have a choice, but if she chooses me she can't blame me for everything.
Ugh....still really struggling with how I am going to tell W I'm done living like this....and she just keeps going downhill. This is just so miserable. She went through a box (3L) of wine in the last 2 days. Started drinking at 3pm both days. I know this has to stop...but I also think she's just acting this way until I break and become the bad guy. How do I end this and have her understand that it's her unwillingness to move forward that has brought us to this point??
BITS M: 35 W: 35 T14, M11 D9, S6 ILYBINILY: June 09 Unofficially Separated (long distance): 1/2/11 W came home: 3/17/11 EE: July 2012 Dropped the rope: Oct 2012 Piecing: April 2013 Not piecing: April 2014 Stuck.
Conscious or not, the "inability to understand" what the other person is saying is a killer controlling maneuver. Think about it. If you're unwilling to do X unless she understands why, then all she has to do to prevent it is not understand.
Your W may be beyond the point where she can will herself to change her drinking behavior. It may be that the best thing you can do for her is to allow her to hit bottom (i.e. allow her to get into enough pain that she breaks out of denial and sees the harmful consequences of her behavior). You can't make any of that happen, you can only let go of trying to prevent it.
At some point along the way, I learned that it is pointless to try to talk with someone who is drinking (or using, or whatever). They are under the influence and they are not "present" for any conversation, so don't waste your breath.
Navy Part of what allows an addict to justify their choices is being able to blame someone else. She will never "understand". Not until you are out of the picture for her to blame, and even then she may still never get it.
My concern is why are you so afraid of being seen as the "bad guy"? It's not like she doesn't already blame you for all her misfortune. Just look at her in the eyes and tell her. I can tell you are not happy so I'm going to give you the best presen I can give you: your Freedom.
More importantly why are YOU so afraid of being the bad guy. You know over in Afghanistan the Taliban calls us the bad guys. By your logic we need to stop combat operations, until they realize THEY are the bad guys we're not. Until then we are to just take it up the chin.
Come on man, you know better than this. Think of it as giving out well deserved UCMJ, you're not going to hold back because the guy refuses to admit he's wrong.
Most importantly just ask yourself why are YOU so afraid of being the bad guy.
Navy Part of what allows an addict to justify their choices is being able to blame someone else. She will never "understand". Not until you are out of the picture for her to blame, and even then she may still never get it.
My concern is why are you so afraid of being seen as the "bad guy"? It's not like she doesn't already blame you for all her misfortune. Just look at her in the eyes and tell her. I can tell you are not happy so I'm going to give you the best presen I can give you: your Freedom.
More importantly why are YOU so afraid of being the bad guy. You know over in Afghanistan the Taliban calls us the bad guys. By your logic we need to stop combat operations, until they realize THEY are the bad guys we're not. Until then we are to just take it up the chin.
Come on man, you know better than this. Think of it as giving out well deserved UCMJ, you're not going to hold back because the guy refuses to admit he's wrong.
Most importantly just ask yourself why are YOU so afraid of being the bad guy.
Well everyone...thanks for the support and advice. I just laid things out for W...I picked pieces from all the posts here and I think it went about as well as it possibly could have (well, short of her telling me that she loves me and wants to work on building a wonderful marriage).
This thread has now come full circle...I have been given crown and miter over myself - thanks to you all. I will post details on tonight's events sometime soon...I need to get some sleep now.
BITS M: 35 W: 35 T14, M11 D9, S6 ILYBINILY: June 09 Unofficially Separated (long distance): 1/2/11 W came home: 3/17/11 EE: July 2012 Dropped the rope: Oct 2012 Piecing: April 2013 Not piecing: April 2014 Stuck.
I hope everything goes okay for you. You been on this miserable road for too long. Just remember couple of things.
1: Be true to yourself. If you find yourself doing something against your element, then question it and dont be afraid to stand up for what you believe in.
2: Remember that freedom begins by saying 'No'
BITS M 38 W 36 D 7 Married 15 yrs W left for 6 months in 2009 W Filed for D 01/03/11 piecing now...
