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~ kd ~ Offline OP
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Taking the day for some introspection...

Trying to tie some stuff together...

Let's assume that my W is a WAS. I say that because I know we can't understand "crazy", so I want to assume that I am not dealing with crazy in order to figure out if it is just me. So that means that I'm working with the assumption that this is not MLC and there are no chronic PDs in play.

I know that I can not understand what might be motivating my W. What her thoughts are...

I am just trying to figure out how to get past the bribing and threats which appear to be the primary methods of her "negotiation" with me.

Right now, I guess I'm working through boundaries. In the past, bribes and threats have worked for her in order to get what she wants from me.

What is an alternative method to offer someone... to encourage them to use... in order to help them get what they want in a positive manner, rather than in these negative forms of negotiation...?

So further, what might be some ways that I can communicate with her to help reduce resistance I feel with her. Is this just my own resistance that is creating this friction between the two of us?

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KD,
I think it goes "actions speak louder than words".

For example: My w didn't cash the first two health insurance payments...

... so I stopped sending them (my boundary). No email saying why. Just an action.

She sent an email asking why - I responded in a firm and friendly way - she tried to bait me into an argument - I ignored it. - she finally cashed the check.

Next month - she didn't cash it again... so I didn't send it again. This time when she saw I was serious - she cashed it much more quickly.

We finally had a conversation about it on Sunday. She again asked why and I stated my boundary. Her response was pleasant and she explained her reasoning... I validated and was kind... but I still stood firm.

... and HOPEFULLY through this positive interaction.. it's resolved.

I guess my point is she had to see that baiting and throwing a fit didn't get her any where. It wasn't until she started treating me the same way that I was treating her that I was receptive.

If you want to encourage them to be positive then don't accept the baiting and negativity.

Do your best to not react and show your own negativity and frustrations..

Treat her how you wish she treated you and maybe... just maybe... the tides will turn.

But it will take time.. and alot of strength from you...

... so the question is... Are you up for the challenge?


M(f): 40
D'ed: 8/12

Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.

Love at all costs because you are loved well.
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~ kd ~ Offline OP
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ok, that sounds fair, Val...

As we all know, our words will not convince them of anything and often appear to simply not register for them. Not sarcasm, but what appears to be fairly factual and something I've witnessed.

So here is dilemma number one:

+ She cannot keep to one topic in any communication

This may sound trite, but what I'm saying here is, the conversation often begins with talk about D9, then something about the dog, and then something about her mom's cancer treatment, and then something about money.

This has been going on from day one.

What I learned here was, keep it short and simple if a response is necessary at all. So by last fall, I was doing very good with that. But the comm was still all over the place.

So from last fall to a couple months ago, I shortened it even more and ONLY responded to what HAD to be responded to.

This did not change anything in her comm. So for the last couple months, I've actually been breaking each point into it's own, simple and concise response.

I thought that worked. And then she began various tangents on one of the conversations.

I can not seem to get it registered in her mind that I ONLY want to speak about the kids (everything else has been taken care of in the SA).

I am stuck for ideas on this.

~~~~~~~

Second of this is the bribes and favours.

In all fairness, I've only been focusing on trying to comm only about the kids so haven't done much regarding this. But I am pretty much done with the one sidedness of this.

Many things come to me by way of being tucked into D9's luggage. From Banana bread, to coffee, to board games, to movies, etc. The last being a box of chocolates. Most of this "stuff" comes with a message (generally conveyed by D9) that this stuff is to be shared "out here". OK, it's pretty obvious the coffee and the box of chocolates and similar "adult" items are for me.

IF my W is NOT crazy MLC... then the best I can guess is these items are meant to bribe and manipulate me.

And I gotta be honest. While my LL is not gifts... a gift MEANS that she's thinking about me and strokes my Words of Affirmation LL.

And, my W has a skewed sense of "flexible" with the kid's schedule. IF she wants a schedule change, it seems to come during some ego stroke or gift. While I am sure that this affects my judgement, I have to say that I AM NOT and UNREASONABLE man. None of the changes generally affect my time with the kids. More often, they are beneficial (I get MORE time with the kids).

But when I (and in the ONE case, accidentally) asked for a change in the schedule (by one hour) it was made very clear to me that I was to stick to the pick up and drop off times as per the SA schedule. I HAVE asked for long weekend privileges (or in-service days) but that appears to have fallen on deaf ears.

So both of these things may have been addressed in my last comm with my W as I indicated I was uncomfortable with the "gifts" and also confused about what "flexible" means.

If I take out the spew, the brunt of her response was that she would no longer be sending gifts and has indicated that we will now follow the schedule to the letter of the SA.

I anticipate relapse on all of the above.

Any other suggestions?

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When she talks about other things... what is your response?
Does she ask your opinion?

KD - Why do you feel the need to TELL her that you only want to talk about Kids or SA? Does it hurt? Is it inappropriate? What's the feeling there?

So giving gifts is your w' LL, but she only gives your gifts when she is going to ask you something?

Am I understanding you correctly?

If you believe that to be true - than it would make sense to me if you don't give in to her - the gifts would stop - no?

There will only be a relapse if you allow it. If she says stick the SA agreement, then do it... regardless on if her flexibility sometimes benefits you.

Yes - more spew will come from it... but until you two can truly talk about kid's schedules.. than that is what needs to be done.

At least that's what I think..


M(f): 40
D'ed: 8/12

Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.

Love at all costs because you are loved well.
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~ kd ~ Offline OP
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There was a tendency for us to have circular conversations which ended up frustrating at least one of us, if not both... and then it was just ugly... or painful...

So now when she brings up other stuff, I ignore it. Well, mostly. I mean when she mentions her mom or her grandad's cancer treatments, I've been supportive. "Good to hear they are doing better." type of responses.

I would have to say that initially (say, last year, spring) that I used to want that connection, but it was only frustrating because she had pulled back so much and I was still pursuing... so yeah, it was painful. Then later, it was just annoying because the end result remained the same.

Now... I just don't want to talk to her. I don't feel like repeating those conversations.

Does she ask my opinion? Sometimes... I think... it appears as such... and then I give my opinion and she makes it very clear that she doesn't want my opinion... let me use the lice example... My W emailed me to let me know that D9 had lice and that she was frustrated and trying to figure out where it was coming from. I mentioned the "two day" rule with lice (that they're dead if they aren't on the host for more than two day) and that I do not have lice...

Honestly, I went into my normal "information" mode of providing her with info on transmission of lice, treatment, and precaution... and truth be known, my W is OCD about lice. She'll strip the entire house, go into a cleaning frenzy, and spend hours picking nits... when CDC and other professionals indicate treat, and then treat again... and then use preventive measures...

I should have just kept my mouth shut. I had thought she was asking my opinion... I got an earful about how she knew everything there was to know about lice and that D9 was well aware of how to prevent it...

oh... ok...

yeah, I know better... she's rarely asking for my opinion... although she was receptive to my suggestions on how to dry out her car after having left the windows open over night and the interior was completely soaked...

More often, it seems she's just venting and wants me to listen... to fix the problem but to not help...

I just don't want to talk to her any more...

Yes, when she gives me "things", I can be quite sure the pattern is, within a day or two I will receive a request for something regarding the kids... maybe some change in the schedule... or money to pay for extra curricular...

And when it's not "gifts", then it's an ego stroke... "The kids really enjoyed their outing with you. They talked about it all night and said they laughed when (insert funny thing here). BTW, can I have them for the long weekend?"

Yes, I think that she was very clear that the gifts would stop. And also, that we are now sticking exclusively to the SA and the current schedule and agreed upon pick up and drop off times...

So the spew came on Monday... with a request for time with the kids (she gets to choose one weekend a month to have the kids)... so OK, I put the request on the schedule...

two days later, (Wednesday) she sends me another email about WHERE (and a reminder of when) to pick up D9 for this weekend... and then a request to make a decision on what to do about long weekends...

That was what I was confused about... and I asked for clarification and mentioned I was confused... and she blew up on me... blaming it all on a "simple box of chocolates"...

Anyhow, I am ruminating over her Monday email as well as her Wednesday email... I have not responded... in all fairness, this is the last long weekend until school is over... I think... so then we are into summer schedule, which is week on, week off, so long weekends won't affect either of us... so it's nothing that needs an answer until August...

You are right... she can try, but there can be no relapse if I do not accept gifts (return them if they are smuggled here)... and no more schedule changes. Sticking with the SA and that's it...

but she's trying... that's the pattern...

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Here's a simple question.

Have you called her on it? I mean.. that wouldn't be poking the bear.. that would be taunting a piece of fish in front of it!!!

What would it hurt to be brutally honest with her?


M(f): 40
D'ed: 8/12

Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.

Love at all costs because you are loved well.
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~ kd ~ Offline OP
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That's a really good question, Val.

I think the most accurate answer, at least recently, is no... I have not called her on it.

She is now using a third party to communicate with me. The person who I picked up D9 from today was asked by W to pass on the "long weekend" question.

I have been fighting for time with the kids since this started. I'm a bit shell shocked on that and now I'm jumping on every chance to be with the kids. And I would be, it makes sense, it is the life I lived until I moved out. Every day, every moment, I was available to the kids... I could be with them... well, of course not during school, but...

33 years of my life I lived spontaneously... for 11 years after that, I tried to fit into "routine", but had my challenges... 11 years with someone who (apparently) craved consistency and routine... now that I have the opportunity to be spontaneous again... I crave consistency... and I'm having spontaneity pushed on me...

As much as I would love to have D9 with me the extra day... I just want to get accustomed to the schedule... even with the SA, she's tossing out requests for her weekend at the last minute... I have no opportunity to plan. Things are different for me now, so planning my time with the kids is important.

I think that's it... that's my answer... that's what I want...

Thanks, Val! grin

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Anytime my friend wink

I think getting accustomed to the schedule is a good start. It won't be easy and will require sacrifice on your end...

..but it what is needed to be done to move forward.

Keep moving forward KD!


M(f): 40
D'ed: 8/12

Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.

Love at all costs because you are loved well.
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
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~ kd ~ Offline OP
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Hey all, just thought I'd post a bit of an update.

The schedule boundaries seem to be working for me. I can schedule a real life around D9's visits and W is not communicating much with me, now. It's a nice burden off my shoulders.

I'm a little sad as far as D14 goes. I know she's 14 and all, but it's just sad to not have her around, much. She does not communicate with me at all, now. Unless I initiate, she does not talk with me. Lately, she has taken to not even coming out from her room or otherwise, when I need to go into the house when I'm getting or dropping off D9.

A couple weeks ago I asked D14 if she wanted to go to a concert. She was pretty excited about it, but then found out how expensive tickets were and wanted to bring a friend but it appears none of her friends can afford to go. Had not heard from her or seen her, since. I finally realized it's an outdoor concert, so offered to take her to the stadium so we can hang out and at least listen to the concert. That was Thursday. So Friday when I pick up D9, D14 comes to greet me at the door.

I so don't want to be a disney dad to her. And worse, I'm on one of her social network sites and will see posts from her about hanging out with W and W's "friends", giving W b-day wishes (yet none for me), and just today... she mentions having a "family day"... erm... that "family day" did not consist of D9 nor me...

I've been DBing D14 but I think I just have to let her go... I mean really, really let her go. It is just so sad for me, but there is nothing I can do. I guess this is pretty much the "You're not my dad" speech... without her actually having to say it...

I do have the luxury of not having to go into the house when I drop D9 off, now. But I do not have that luxury when I pick D9 up. I can hardly wait for that day when D9 just comes out to the car when I pick her up.

Just stupid stuff, really. I didn't miss a beat on this, but when I picked up D9 on Friday, I did the usual doorbell ring and waited for an invitation before entering. W came to the door and said "Hi" and I said "hey" in response. I guess it came out a little curt, because I got "that eye" look. I could immediately see my W's demeanour change from friendly to stand offish. I took it in stride, not missing a beat, and W softened again... but man, I sure don't miss that crap...

Anyhow, things are decent, working out at the gym, going to Aikido classes, other GAL, got my new job the past week and a half....

Life's good... cool

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ahhh... that's better... cool

I think part of what's been bugging me is that my Benz has been giving me grief and adding up potential repair costs... and I haven't been paid, yet...

Well, just solved a major carfuffle... car has been in "limp home" mode since monday... no hoist, no tools, prospective mechanics will cost me an arm and a leg to track down problem...

anyhow, decided I needed to get a bit greasy, so spent some time under the car... yup, cyl 4 5 and 6 misfire means something probably wrong on driver's side...

ends up being a plugged cat... I unplugged it... grin four cats, two on each side, blow the front one and it plugs the back one... geesh... i think it might have been partly plugged from when I got it...

holy smokers she's got balls now! yowzers! and she sounds pretty, too... wink i think I'll try to find an after market thrush or maybe run open headers... lol...

back to wasting money on gas! yippee! it's good to be unplugged... cool

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