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Kimmerz Offline OP
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Thank you luvless. It helps to hear from other parents that have gone through this. Im so afraid Im doing or saying the wrong thing to her when i try to explain what happened. I don't want to lie, but can't elaborate either. STBX left that all up to me and said " well just let me know if you need help so I can back you up on what you say". Im so stupid for letting him slip away like that without having to tell them anything!!! Yet I was so confused I didn't know what the heck was going on...didn't even know he was divorcing me.

They spend the next two nights with him....and Im afraid they're going to be rough for her. She's not comfortable going because all it does is make her sad. Yet everyone seems to keep telling me that he has his new life now and the kids have to get used to it.

The State of Oregon says the children don't get to choose whether or not they get to visit their parents or not unless there's a safety reason.

I never had a real "dad". I don't know what it's like to have a father/daughter relationship. So I don't really understand exactly what she's going through. I had a step Dad, and most of the time I was glad to see him leave. He left and came back all the time. Finally when I was 19, he left for good. I was sad about it too, because I thought he'd had straightened up and would stick around. It was hard for me to see him around town afterwards. It still is akward and that was 20 years ago!


M=42 XH=44
M=18 T=21
D14 D11
Divorced 4/2012
XH marries OW 6/2014.
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Hey Kimmerz!

I don't have much help to offer you. My kids are big. My 4 year old granddaughter was pretty puzzled by my sleeping in the guest room, though. Then my H tried to be cute and told her I was 'camping' in the guest room. She said something like: "Papa, Grandma sleeps with you." Tore my heart out.

I remember someone else, I think Labug, said that the person asking for the D should be telling the kids this stuff with you standing by. But if you are getting papers without any notice I don't suppose there will be any reasonable ways of presenting it.

I remeber when my H dropped the first bomb 12 years ago and then 2 weeks later decided to stay. He seemed suprised then that I had told the kids he planned to leave. He was living in another state. I always wondered did he think the kids were blind and wouldn't notice their mom crying for 2 weeks straight and hiding in her room and not eating anything? They were 12 and 17 then!

About your daughter, just sit with her and let her talk and listen to what she says. You and I both know venting is helpful for us!

Aloha!


Me 57 XH 58 Sons age 32 & 27 M:32
D final 9/12
Bought 10 Acres and Living the Dream!
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Kimmerz Offline OP
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Ok Im about to just blow my stack! No infact I am blowing my stack!

Someone explain to me WHY these WAS seem to think they can pick and choose when to re appear emotionally available and emotionally involved?

You know Im finding that when xh starts to show signs of being human, I go into a fit of anger. I know it's a defense because it won't last. My hopes have been up and shattered so many times.

In the fall our daughter was really struggling. Christmas time my daughter was really struggling over him being gone and being wtih OW. He never answered any of my emails when I was telling him what a hard time our daughter was having and this is why she wouldn't stay with him. He refused to speak to me about anything, didn't apologize to the girls, and acted as if nothing ever happened.

Now all the sudden he's trying to connect with me and get more involved with me as far as the parenting is concerned. Yet for months he refused to speak to me. Now he wants to speak to me and he wants to communicate, and he's being nice.

I emailed him about a week ago about taxes, etc stuff he started talking about. It was a kind email and I thanked him for some things. I didn't have any expectations.

He texts me while he's at work most of the time. He texts at home, but rarely. I think he might do it when OW isn't looking or if she's taking a nap.

I am just so frustrated and mad. They act like nothing happened. Yet I've been the one apologizing over and over again. The divorce will be final by the end of the month. Maybe he's happy he's finally gotten what he wants and seems to think he wants to be friends now....I just don't understand his actions at all.


M=42 XH=44
M=18 T=21
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XH marries OW 6/2014.
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He's having moments of clarity and feels that the pressure is off of him to return to you since the divorce is not far away. I know it sounds crazy, but once they know the divorce is going through, they become a little bit nicer because they are getting what they think they want. Truth be told, if you were to do something that he didn't like, he would revert back to the angry man he was. For now, accept whatever kindness he is offering because we do not know for how long he will be that way.

I am very sorry he's not been there for you and your daughter. Let's hope and pray that at some point, he will want to reconnect permanently and be there for her.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Kimmerz Offline OP
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Oh snodderly I guess Im such a dunce!!! I don't get this at all. He left, moved in with OW within 2 months after leaving and has been happy as a clam with her, but still fighting with me whenever the mood strikes him (spew).

Just what kind of clarity do they have? Is clarity the same thing as reality?

Im struggling with MLC logic here. If he's happy with her and his life is going peachy with OW, why would he feel pressure to return to me? He appeared happily separated. He mainly just wanted to be away from me and that's what he got. If that's what he got, and he's happy with his new life, then why spew? I just don't get it! LOL....

I caught him in a stupid lie last night which just sent me to the moon, then I ended up crying alot today because I've been stuffing alot down for weeks.

You know I ran into some mutal friends of ours last week. They were very sad to hear about the divorce and expressed their condolences. She said to me " once the divorce is over then you guys can work on being friends again. It always gets better after the divorce is over."

WTH does that mean??LOl...Friends??? I don't think so! He has nothing to offer me as a friend at all, and I would never be friends with the likes of what he's pulled! Let alone how I've seen him treat his very own " friends".


M=42 XH=44
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XH marries OW 6/2014.
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Kimmerz,
Clarity and reality are one and the same. They do have moments that they are actually wide awake and can see things for what they are. The rest of the time, it's all about "me" and the fantasy world that they have created...that's when the mask of happiness is put back into place. As for pressure, in his mind, he is thinking that you are still waiting for him to return to you and also, he is thinking that you are expecting him to be the same man that he was. If he knows that you aren't waiting for him or that your expectations are at zero, he may not spew. Did something trigger his most recent spewing session?

They aren't as happy as we all think. Let's face it, they left good spouses, families and homes. They were respected in their communities and fields of work. Now, they are having to rebuild at an older age and it's not easy. They are not going to be able to burn the candle at both ends for a very long time before health issues begin to crop up. The grass is always greener over the septic tank...to those looking for it. Keep in mind, if they were really happy, we wouldn't be hearing their irrational spewing, etc.

I've heard exactly what you've been told by your friends about divorce being over and can work on being friends. My xh told me that as well...not while I'm of my sane mind. People don't have a clue as to what we have had to deal with and it's ongoing. I once had an elderly lady tell me that until my xh drops dead, he will always be a bug on my radar screen. She said that when they leave the way they do while in mlc, they never completing cut the apron string from the spouse that they left. I'm beginning to think she's right.

There is no rational logic to what they do when they are in fantasyland. You accept them the way they are for now and hope that as they move along, or should I say grow up, they will settle down and act like rational human beings on some level. Also, keep in mind, the sprew may not even be about something you have done...it could very well be that someone else rattled his cage and you just happen to step into his line of vision and you got the spew. I wouldn't spend a lot of time wondering why they are the way they are...they can't even figure that one out themselves, so how can we?


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Kimerrez,

if I may add my 2 cents worth on this topic.

In his mind you are doubtlessly the primary obstacle to his happiness and you are not easily overcome. In the worst case you are THE ONLY reason he is unhappy. When you are out of the picture he will be able to be happy again. The problem therein is the work and complicatios of getting rid if you. It takes time, money, lawyers and nagging in the back of his head is the fact you have children so he knows he cannot completely rid you from his life and that probably frustrates him.

Mine would blow up from time to time during D process and I also wondered what the causes were. I sometimes thought others (OM) brought up her concerns but they may have been internally generated by her.

It's a vicious cycle. They want to be rid of us, blame us for everything wrong in their lives, hate us for how they feel, become frustrated at the work/time/effort/money to be rid of us and hate us all the more for it. Throw in a little fear that the financial/property settlement won't be exactly what tge want or expect and you've got quite a concondrum going on in their heads.

Mine verbalized early on how she wanted us to be friends and she would always love me. I wish I could remember exactly how much time apart that was from her threat to "make my life a living Hell" if didn't give her what she wanted. Don't try to figure him out. You won't but you'll waste a lot of time and drive yourself into depression.

Over time mines spew has greatly subsided to the point of almost non-existance. The only time it arises now seems to involve time sharing the kids, especially when the lady Im dating is in some way involved. She has verbalized how "good it is for the kids and us too" that we are friends and touched me on the back as if to attest to the validy of her comments or check to see if I feel the same. Another time recently she touched me (on the back again) as she was dropping off the kids. I made no acknowledgement of it either time. I don't know what all the new "touchiness" is about and am not wasting time trying to figure it out.

Reminds me of an MLC light beer:

"Less spew, more touching, same great taste"


"Fear is the mind-killer" Muad'Dib
Me 53, XW 44, DD 14, DS 12
Bomb and OM 12/15/06
Separated 01/02/07
Divorced 05/13/08
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Snodderly is right on all counts I'm afraid. I'm close to 9 months post divorce and yet the drama continues from the ex. She is angry about something, but channels it through daughter. I've seen the emails etc from daughter when she spoke to me. Ex decided that I was doing something wrong and spewed all over the place. When I asked for her input, she let me know she wouldn't share anything with me.

Really? With regards to your own daughter?

I had a lawyer send an email for that and a few other things. Ex forgot the things she said and guess what? Blamed me smile

It may not end for a long time. It may never end until you end it. While you are raising kids together, there may be more effort on your part to keep him at bay.

It just is. Accept it and as was mentioned earlier in the thread, only respond when appropriate to the situation.

Stay focused on the things you can do and let the rest go. You'll be healthier for that.

AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
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Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
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I had to share, as well...

Originally Posted By: AJM
When I asked for her input, she let me know she wouldn't share anything with me.


I keep wondering when the spew will end. I decided to get a new car (really needed one). My W had even suggested I do so, once settlement was completed.

So... I decide that if I'm gonna get a car, I'm getting one I will enjoy. It's an older Benz, but I actually MAKE money driving it off the lot. Great deal. Well, W is pissed I would get a car "like that"... crazy

As an independent consultant, there are still people (even in our small community) who do not know we're separated. Any time someone like that calls the house to ask for me, it pisses my W off and I get told about it. I don't know anything short of putting a half page ad in the paper to let people know that I am NOT at that number or address... of course, that would piss her off, as well... again... crazy

The other day, I dropped D9 off back with her. This was two days after she spewed about the car. I swear as I was leaving, she moved towards me as though she wanted to hug, touch, or just be closer... IDK... I didn't stick around to find out...

There's a few threads I could post this in, I was just reminded again via another D resource, that sometime in the future... the WAS... the MLCer... whatever... they WILL find clarity and they WILL try to reconnect... even if it's not for a new, intimate R...

It's up to us how we handle ourselves now... and when that time happens... it will be up to us how we deal with it and what we choose...

In the mean time, don't poke the bear and enjoy the life that you have and the future that you create.

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Kimmerz Offline OP
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Thanks for all your input guys, I really appreciate it and it helps put things into perspective. I am so sorry we have been put though all of this, but Im so grateful that God has brought us together, via internet so we can be here to support eachother. If it weren't for everyone here, I seriously may have been pushed over the edge into insanity, or possibly suicide. The pain gets so great, you just want it to go away. And at times the only way you think you can get away from the pain is to no longer exist.

I also have to say the more I've read up on the passive aggressive personality, it fits more than MLC with xh.There is alot of good info out there online, and it's helped me so much. All I can say is he has been a person with serious PA issues, then hit MLC. You mix that up with the PA issues that become colossal during MLC and look what you have. One fine mess.

A vent and a rant coming on here. Im sorry, Im still just so frustrated and irked by him. I guess Im just resentful that I still have to deal with him to some extent, and dealing with him now is a whole new ball of wax, and requires controlled reaction and interaction with him. Where as my patience is so shot with this MLC/PA antics I'd be thrilled to never deal with him ever again. Snodderly..... I can see the truth in the apron strings never being cut. Sometimes I almost think he craves my attention at times, even though there is OW. Alot of me being so irked is that I have had adult expectations in such and adult situation, that require maturity and grace on both parties. I didn't expect to have to deal with kindergarten antics.

His most recent snide retort was earlier this week. I had requested he bring the girls home at 5:30 in the afternoon from their overnight visit with him, if it wasn't a problem. Normally it's around 7 he brings them home. He respoded with " well that only give me 2 hours after school with them. So are you cooking them dinner?"

I quickly responded by stating I made it clear if "it wasn't a problem", and obviously it was. I told him if he wants more time with them that letting me know that he wanted a little more time with them that day is all he needed to do. Wow...his reaction was something I didn't expect....it appeared sincere, genuine, and admitting the truth of what he was feeling. Abandoned and lonely. He said he misses the kids and 3 hours the evening before and 2 hours the next day wasn't enough ( the girls were at school). He also said that we had the normal routine of him dropping them off at 8 p.m., WHICH HAS NEVER BEEN THE CASE. No specific time has ever been set, but he has always dropped them off at 7 p.m. I don't know where this 8 p.m. stuff came from. I told him I didn't remember this being set in stone but if it was and I somehow forgot, a reminder would be nice or we agree this is what we will do from now on. Then Of course there was guilt thrown in there by him of " well this little time is better than nothing and I will get them home at 5:30. I was going to cook them dinner, but I will do it next week if I can". He does know how to use the guilt factor on me well.

As we continued to text my first impression was that he was missing the kids, couldn't articulate it, and when my request for them to come home came up, he instantly became defensive and put himself of the victum role. Of course me being the persecutor and cheating him his time with the kids. So I just let him know if he needs or wants more time with them to let me know from now on...that's all he has to do! I also let him know that as he's wanting more time with the kids, I could use a little more of a breather from them, and could he possibly try and get a Saturday and Sunday (he works weekends almost always)off and take the kids? He then replies to me that he's "trying" but they're short night supervisors so he cant???

Ok this is the first time I have ever asked him to request specific time off to take the kids since he left. He says he's trying...as if he knows I need a break and would actually like to have an entire weekend to myself? We have not discussed this at all. I guess it makes me angry that he says he's doing already doing something, when I never had asked??



Then come to find out this big dinner he was supposed to be cooking the kids....he dumped in OW hands and made her cook it so he could spend more time with them.

I give up, and am moving on. Just one sitch at a time with him is all i can really do.


M=42 XH=44
M=18 T=21
D14 D11
Divorced 4/2012
XH marries OW 6/2014.
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