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#2231603 - 03/18/12 09:19 PM Re: Parenting with an MLCer? [Re: Kimmerz]
job Offline
Member

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 19207
Loc: Maryland
You need to sit down and figure out what boundaries that you need to set w/your h and stick to them. Yes, he thinks that it's okay to come and go and announce on a moment's notice when he can have the children. I would advise him that he needs to notify you at least 3 days in advance as to when he can have the children visit w/him because you and the children are not going to change your plans again for him on such late notice. Stick to the timeframe and do not waiver from it. If you do waiver, he will not only take an inch, but an entire mile.

What does the mlcer want? They want the lbs to be sitting at home waiting by the phone or their computer for messages, i.e., to be at their beck and call and not the other way around. Life doesn't work that way and we all have things to do and make plans to do them. The waiting until the last minute is actually a control issue and yes, it is PA.

Set your boundaries and stick to them!

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#2231636 - 03/19/12 12:54 AM Re: Parenting with an MLCer? [Re: job]
Kimmerz Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 872
Loc: West Coast
Thanks snodderly! I appreciate that and it helps me get my feet on the ground. Your input is very valuable to me.

LOL....Guess Im not crazy after all, for myself and many others have felt that he still expects me to act as such. No life, just available whenever.

He threw me a big curve ball today. When I asked him if he was coming to D9's follow up in April (which is 4.5 hours away) he offered something I never would expect. Since it's just a check up he offered to stay back and watch D13 so she wouldn't have to miss school, or if the drive was making me too uncomfortable he would take D9 himself and I could stay home. And he said he'd leave it up to me, but either way he'd do his best to get that day off to help.


I didn't respond back yet. Im a little speechless.
_________________________
M=42 XH=44
M=18 T=21
D14 D11
Divorced 4/2012
XH marries OW 6/2014.

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#2231647 - 03/19/12 01:39 AM Re: Parenting with an MLCer? [Re: Kimmerz]
TSquared2 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 2418
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Oh man, the "last minute" personality...! W is like that, I am Mr. Plan and 5 minutes early....I know how you feel.

I would tell him that the kids need as much consistancy as possible in our situation, they are having enough issues and that he needs to inform you and them as soon as he has his schedule, AND, you are going to make it a stipulation of the D agreement since you know when he gets his schedule. (Or something like that).

You have made me see that W and I still in the same house is a blessing, at least I don't have to deal with THAT BS on top of everything else...

Hang in there K!
_________________________
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus

Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm


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#2231667 - 03/19/12 03:49 AM Re: Parenting with an MLCer? [Re: TSquared2]
Kimmerz Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 872
Loc: West Coast
Hey guys...

It is in our parenting plan about the schedule. If either of us fail to inform the other in a timely manner of plans or schedules, and it conflicts with plans made, than the other doesn't get the visitation time. It's just time I start waving the rule book out I guess. He never can remember anything anyway. So for example, say I had made big plans for tomorrow because I didn't know he had that day off, but he informed me the last minute...then too bad so sad, he doesn't get them overnight. However what we had planned won't cause conflict for the overnight with him.

Yes it really is a pain having to share the kids with someone that has their schedule change all the time. However I did tell him that our plans were made for tomorrow and I would let him know when we were home. I also told him I had already made plans in regards to getting D9 up to her MD appointment that's 4.5 hours away. No reply.
_________________________
M=42 XH=44
M=18 T=21
D14 D11
Divorced 4/2012
XH marries OW 6/2014.

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#2231694 - 03/19/12 11:57 AM Re: Parenting with an MLCer? [Re: Kimmerz]
Kimmerz Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 872
Loc: West Coast
Ok I figured it out!

Cake eating = open relationship!

It just dawned on me that I have felt and still feel like my H wants an open relationship with me, and everything is to stay in it's place.

He's to live with OW and have an immaculate house, meals cooked for him, laundry done, a gaming partner, and to be sexually serviced any time he wants. The children are to go over and see him and accept this no questions asked. They're supposed to accept his girlfriend.

I am supposed to sit over here and wait for word from him whenever he remembers to tell me his schedule. The girls and I are supposed to be at his beck and call and be available to him whenever he wants. He also is to be included in every aspect of our lives and expects to still live as a family and be included in family type activities. His expectations are to be Super Parents together, and still have many of the things we did have in our 22 year relationship. He's just getting sexually satisfied somewhere else.

Oh, and we're all supposed to be ok with this too.

LMAO....Funny when reality will strike again.

I don't think so.
_________________________
M=42 XH=44
M=18 T=21
D14 D11
Divorced 4/2012
XH marries OW 6/2014.

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#2231765 - 03/19/12 04:32 PM Re: Parenting with an MLCer? [Re: Kimmerz]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
I may be completely off on this, but this thought just came to me this morning (in a more profound way).

Partly in trigger to what you say above, Kimmer...

Maybe it's been said before about MLC, but it is as though the person in MLC appears to have their empathy switched turned off. They are unable to understand and appreciate how the people around them might feel, regarding their behaviours.

It is not that they do not have sympathy.

They still have emotions. They still can feel bad for others who are in a bad situation. They can feel happy for someone who is happy. They can still feel anger when they sense some form of injustice. They just cannot "personalize" it (of other's emotions, to themselves).

It is "I feel bad for you" not "I know how bad that can feel" and they are personally (and unintentionally) distanced from the M and their spouse, as though it is not really their life and therefore not really their responsibility. In a way that they might see someone else going through a D and conclude how inappropriate it is for one spouse to take up an A, yet don't see their own A as bad. Or even more bizarre, they may personalize some injustice they feel someone else is having and champion for that person or cause, without request or permission from the involved parties.

Take for instance how it appears that your H appears by his actions to want the benefits of OW as well as continue to have the benefits he's decided he wants with you.

He further appears to be unable to empathize with you in how you might feel about being in an "open" marriage. It may appear he does not care about how you feel, but it may be more accurate to say he cannot empathize (put himself in your position and personally feel that you may not be OK with it).

I noticed this in my W quite clearly last friday when I was picking up my kids. There was a miscommunication about an event this coming weekend. I realized that I misunderstood what was being communicated to me. Once that was put on the table, my W was able to accept that I wasn't clear and HOW I could have been unclear, but she was really unable to appreciate how I felt about it. I could see it in her face, she just didn't "get it" (how I felt) and just could not integrate my feelings into the equation and therefore very visibly defaulted to the "it's his problem and his fault" mentality, even though she was careful about her words in verbalizing that.

I don't know if that makes sense to you or others reading this.

But that being the case, for example they don't appear to appreciate the value of making the clear distinction between choosing the intimacy with the OP over their spouse and taking care of the dissolution of the M.

That is how it feels to me with my W. She really seems to feel that because SHE does not want to be with me in an emotionally intimate way, it is UP TO ME to do the work to dissolve the M.

That MLC "selfishness" appears to move from:

lack of empathy = perception of selfishness by others (which MAY) = the appearance of (or real) confusion

Which leads to what appears to extend into what appears to be lack of responsibility by the MLCer, to take actions which would appear responsible in nature.

In a transition, I believe we don't loose our empathy.

I would suspect that even in mild MLC, there is some "disconnect" that shows up as what would be a loss of empathy.

It is not just us that the MLCer looses empathy for, it is that of our kids and even our friends, in the dynamics that created in the relationship. In the same way that they most certainly suggest that it is none of our concern or business, their relationship with an OP, yet do expect everyone else to embrace their new found love, even if it requires coercion or manipulation. ie. My W is manipulating the acceptance of our kid's towards OM and her supporters, by integrating them in the relationships to the extent of acknowledging the arrival and departures with these people in a positive way.

So if someone (non-MLC) makes a choice to be out of the relationship, they do empathize. They would "GET" the pain that their spouses may feel. They "GET" the pain that their kids might feel. They "GET" the discomfort and anger that those who appreciated and supported the R or M might have. They make what they feel is their best choice, and take sincere and genuine ownership and responsibility for that decision.

When their empathy button gets turned off... they really don't understand or "get" any of the above. They decide that the spouse should be responsible for the choice of the MLCer. The kids should be "ok" with the breakdown of their parents M. That everyone (not just their supporters) should support the dissolution of the M.

You know... like those fairytale divorces where everyone... the spouses, the kids, everyone who is familiar with the couple says... "yeah, they never got along and you could see how much the two of them really weren't compatible..."

When (most) everyone is saying how D is the right thing.... but one spouse seems to be holding on... then that would be a severe problem with the clinging spouse being unable to let go and see reality... an absolute and true co-dependent person...

OTOH, when people outside the M are surprised... even "shocked" that one spouse wants out of the M... well, that's probably an indicator that there is some emotional and personality turmoil in the spouse who wants out, if that spouse is not willing to acknowledge and accept the criticism and still own and accept the responsibility of the choice... ie. I do understand that it is a horrible situation, but I really do believe that it is an appropriate decision for me. I am sorry for any hard feelings this may cause for anyone.

The above is just a long way of saying:

Someone would be in MLC if the empathy switch existed in the MLCer in the first place, and was (mostly) turned on. If we can't remember a time when our spouses may have actually considered our thoughts and feelings and adjusted their viewpoint or didn't shame and blame us for those feelings that may have been contrary to theirs... then perhaps there is something deeper going on...

If you feel you are hitting a point where you have to make some tough decisions on your direction in life and consider the feelings of others and take the responsibility and proclaim that responsibility to the world... then you would not be in MLC...

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#2231810 - 03/19/12 06:57 PM Re: Parenting with an MLCer? [Re: ~ kd ~]
job Offline
Member

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 19207
Loc: Maryland
Kaffe,
Your posting is spot on...

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#2231849 - 03/19/12 08:53 PM Re: Parenting with an MLCer? [Re: job]
AJM Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/08
Posts: 3096
Quote:
Someone would be in MLC if the empathy switch existed in the MLCer in the first place, and was (mostly) turned on. If we can't remember a time when our spouses may have actually considered our thoughts and feelings and adjusted their viewpoint or didn't shame and blame us for those feelings that may have been contrary to theirs... then perhaps there is something deeper going on...
Spot on. I think that's much of what takes many of us "by surprise" and makes it harder to get over the shock. One day they seem normal, and the next what you describe. Or as I described it once, it was like she had an emotional stroke smile

But very much, I think many of us can see some of our situations in your post, KD.

Kimmerz, I heard anger in your in post. Or read it rather... Be careful with that. Your anger is justified, but not helpful in long durations. In short bursts it is though. It really is.
Feel what you need to feel and recognize what it seems to me is a change in your ex. If you're like me, when the ex changes toward us, we find ourselves off-balance again. Until we detach enough that it no longer affects us that is.
AJ
_________________________
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."

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#2231854 - 03/19/12 09:02 PM Re: Parenting with an MLCer? [Re: job]
WenikiTiki Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/11
Posts: 1090
Loc: Hawaii
Hey Kimmerz!

You are so good at writing out your feelings. I love to read your stuff, because it helps me 'get' my stuff. I must really be an emotional challange. I guess there is a reason I make quilts.... because my words aren't up to par!

I also really liked Kaffe's response. Very true and helps me see!

Aloha,

Wendy
_________________________
Me 55 XH 56 Sons age 29 & 24 M:32
D final 9/12
Gainfully employed and kept my house!

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#2231863 - 03/19/12 09:26 PM Re: Parenting with an MLCer? [Re: WenikiTiki]
Kimmerz Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 872
Loc: West Coast
Hey Guys,
Kaffe, wonderful post. I will read over and over again, such a great thing to ponder.

Yes Aj, I have alot of anger, I really do. But I allow myself to feel it and when I do that, I then understand why Im angry. When I understand why Im angry, then it starts to dissapate. All I can do is let it run it's course. For me I've spent many years stuffing my anger and frustration down, so when it comes out, it tends to be prolonged at times.

Yes Im like you, if there's a change, then Im off balance. Im usually such a balanced person in every aspect but this MLC/separation/divorce. When Im thrown off balance I become super defensive. The first thing in my mind : "I will never let this man hurt me again. He's hurting me again. He must stop."

As I process these thoughts and emotions, the basis of it all is me really wavering in my detatchment. For me, detatchment has come in phases, and has been 2 steps forward 3 steps back.
_________________________
M=42 XH=44
M=18 T=21
D14 D11
Divorced 4/2012
XH marries OW 6/2014.

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