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Originally Posted By: chatterbug
Denver , Mrs. PC is not in pain right now. Mrs. PC sounds like she has a full on Hypomania. This is dangerous. For all involved. This makes affairs and walk-aways look a walk in the park. Professional help is needed.

Hypomania have a tendancy to drain bank accounts, do dangerous actions that can affect their familys. Lose their jobs and even go to jail over their actions. There can be hypersexuality. There is no checks and balances in risk taking.

There is no purpose to suffering this pain. It creates bitterness.

Until she gets the proper medical and mental attention she will boomerang back and forth between depression and mania until those who love her snap and cannot take it any longer or she just leaves.

As you can see he has been the rock for his wife throughout their marriage. But it keeps leading him down a cheese-less tunnel. Something needs to change.

I do not know your back story sorry about that. As you do not know mine.

But I will state that I did not tit for tat. Adults look after their property. Since she was not capable of that basic function. I called her out on it. I set a boundary with consequences. Her actions were to test me. So I removed her and all her stuff to the guest bedroom. She had the choice to respect the property and the chores. Her choice was to not help out.


I'm not a psychologist, so I am very careful about throwing out any kind of diagnosis. IMO, this behavior seems very much in line with typical, selfish, WAS behavior.

I do agree that PC needs to protect himself. I just don't think that I agree as to how he needs to proceed here.

And I also disagree that PC has been the perfect H here. He's clearly stated, and correct me if I am wrong PC, that he has ignored his W's feelings at times, that he has denied her intimacy, and has been subconsciously angry with her. He stated that his W says that she feels lonely. While I have no doubt that her issues are a huge cause here, but one of our goals is to do some self reflection so that we can learn and grow as a result of this tragedy.

So PC - Let's maybe not focus on your W right this second. I'd like to hear more about that stuff. What is your role in this? What could you have done differently or better, if anything?

Denver


M 43
X 38
T 13
W moves out of home 11/2010
Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012
I request divorce 5/2012
W moves home 6/2012
Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015
I leave 3/2016
process of divorce
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I was asking chatterbug, sorry for the confusion.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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Oh I know Labug. Kind of had the same question.


M 43
X 38
T 13
W moves out of home 11/2010
Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012
I request divorce 5/2012
W moves home 6/2012
Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015
I leave 3/2016
process of divorce
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I agree with Denver. Her behavior reflects many WAS's. I understand her past psychological issues, and it seems like she wants to get away from everything rather than dealing with conflict. It seems like whenever she would get into strife in her life, it would bite her in the @$$. So she tries to avoid it.

While it's always good to protect yourself first from what a WAS might do, it's not always as a result of a psychological disorder.

As much as we would often like to think it is.


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Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
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Labug Mrbond, and Denver. If you go back and reread you will see where PC states what his wife has been diagnosed with. It looks like you missed it.

I am neither a psychologist or psychiatrist. If I was I would not be posting on this site.

My background is behavioral neuroscience and electrical engineering. I know a strange combination. 7 years of schooling.

My main worries right now for PC is that he is enabling her hypomania or mania.

I think PC needs to seek out IC help to deal with being a spouse of a person diagnosed with bi-polar disorder.

I also think that he fully does not understand the ramifications of her illness and needs to learn this so he can make the right choice for his life and for his sons life.

Knowledge is strength. And it will help improve his physical and mental health. He cannot be a lighthouse when he does not have enough juice to power the lamp.

But dealing with a bi-polar person. That person has to want to get help. And the spouse needs to truly learn boundaries and have the willpower and strength to enforce them for their well-being.

And Denver. I do not think you fully grasp unconditional love. It is something that is freely given away. Expect nothing in return. It is not dependent upon any other person other than one's own self. It is not dependent upon hard times. It is just love. Plain and simple. I believe that you speak of unconditional dedication. It is something that is confusing to many BS's. Personally I blame it on the BS's own fog that they go through. It is similar to how someone deals with a death. History is rewritten to make the WS a better person than they were. Kind of like an ever repeating bargaining stage within the grief cycle.

I also believe that the self is the most important person in one's life. To be a strong husband or father one must be strong personally first. Put their mental and physical health first. So they can weather the storms because they have built such a strong foundation. And they know deep down inside that they will be OK. This allows them to make difficult choices and not wallow in limbo.

Sorry for the thread take over JC...


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Originally Posted By: chatterbug
Labug Mrbond, and Denver. If you go back and reread you will see where PC states what his wife has been diagnosed with. It looks like you missed it.

And Denver. I do not think you fully grasp unconditional love. It is something that is freely given away. Expect nothing in return. It is not dependent upon any other person other than one's own self. It is not dependent upon hard times. It is just love. Plain and simple. I believe that you speak of unconditional dedication. It is something that is confusing to many BS's. Personally I blame it on the BS's own fog that they go through. It is similar to how someone deals with a death. History is rewritten to make the WS a better person than they were. Kind of like an ever repeating bargaining stage within the grief cycle.



I don't think that we missed that she has been diagnosed with depression and bi-polar disorder. But I do not recall anything about hypomania being mentioned other than by you. Many, many WAS's and MLC WAWs suffer from depression and/or bi-polar disorder. These forums are littered with examples. So I'm not sure yet whether or not there is anything all that out of the ordinary going on with PC's W. She is clearly demonstrating typical, selfish, WAW behavior. So I'm not sure that this situation should be treated any differently than others.

I completely disagree with your take on unconditional love... not your definition; I agree that it is love freely given with out expectation or condition of something in return. So we don't stop loving someone, or give up on them, just because they are not giving us what we want, just because they are making choices that may be hurting us. Loving someone unconditionally means that we are will to stick by them, maybe from afar for a bit, and allow them to learn and grow on the path that they are choosing. Unconditional love means that we are still there once they have done that.

Does this sometimes lead to an LBS wallowing in limbo for a period of time... of course it does. Someone who chooses to love another person, whether it be a spouse, child, or even friend, is willing to do that for the very reason of unconditional love. It is they type of love that all of would love to have in our lives. Knowing that someone is going to love us and be by our side no matter what happens to us, or what internal strife that we might go through during our life.

Unconditional dedication may be a bi-product of unconditional love if one chooses. IMO, they go hand in hand. It has nothing to with an LBS fog or the LBS rewriting history. In fact, I'd argue that unconditional dedication to our spouse is what we all signed up for when we took our marriage vows. I don't recall my M vows saying "I vow to love you through sickness and health, through good times and bad, till death do us part... UNLESS you make a choice that hurts me.'

I would never argue that anyone should wallow in limbo beyond their personal capacity or at the detriment of their own long term happiness. But I see very, very few people even on this board that are at that point. And certainly, PC is not at that point. He's had a WAS for, what, a month?

I just believe that we are here on this forum to encourage people to work towards learning about such concepts as unconditional love, towards learning about their own shortcomings as a spouse, and to learn strategies that MAY help them save their marriages. We are not here to say, "your W is messed up, so you should move on." THAT is a VERY personal decision that only the LBS spouse themselves can and should make.

It seems to me that had you familiarized yourself with my own sitch 16 months ago, that you would have been encouraging me to walk away from it and to move on. Had that happened, and had I listened, I would not be where I am today. And that would have been a much worse tragedy than me having to go through some pain, and wallow in limbo, for a few months of my life.

Denver

Denver


M 43
X 38
T 13
W moves out of home 11/2010
Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012
I request divorce 5/2012
W moves home 6/2012
Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015
I leave 3/2016
process of divorce
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and yeah PC, sorry if this seems like a thread jack. It happens sometimes when posters find themselves disagree with one another. I experienced a lot of quibbling amongst posters at various times in my sitch.

My best advice on how to deal with it is to read it all, take what you believe to be good advice that is applicable to our situation... and throw out the rest.

And some of these concepts, such as "unconditional love", are going to have different definitions from different people. They are concepts that we each define by our own personal beliefs and experiences. You have to define them for yourself if they are ideas that you endeavor to learn about. There are no real right or wrong answers. IMO anyway.

Denver


M 43
X 38
T 13
W moves out of home 11/2010
Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012
I request divorce 5/2012
W moves home 6/2012
Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015
I leave 3/2016
process of divorce
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Thanks guys for all the help! Denver you seem to be hitting the nail on the head. For better of worse means that I will be here regardless. I believe I have stated all my faults in the marriage already. Subconscious/imploding anger. Almost all of my faults were a direct subconscious reflection of her actions. Aside from being super affectionate such as holding hands, etc. But according to her it ALL boiled down to intimacy(sex, cuddling). First 4 years sex and intimacy was great. She never was a faker type. She is vocal in expressing her pleasure or lack thereof. Nothing seemingly changed with her. It was me that apparently started getting fed up with her actions(going out dancing once a week, staying out((6am)) late when she does go, her constant need to be socially connected via facebook/twitter/texting updates hourly at least, her occasional smoking and heavy drinking when she did go out) about a year and half ago. I guess i couldnt take it anymore but instead of continuing to complain about those things to her, i chose to harbour my feelings inside, big mistake because it turned into anger without my knowledge. So when she first revealed she was starting to feel unhappy Jan 2011, i understood then. But every attempt to heal her deep wound was bandages on a wound that needed stitches. And apparently finding stitches was not a priority for me because i thought bandages(becoming more affectionate, having more sex) would be fine. But the growth in my affection and intimacy from Jan 2011-Jan 2012 was not sustained because stitches(the root of my affection/intimacy issues) were not in place, hence the two subsequential breakups. And also the last one. But God made me understand the root of my issues, something I didn't know before she separated. My imploding anger actually exploded into my love and affection towards my wife. But when things are reconciled I definitely wont be the same man as before. Which in return will help our marriage all together. Also will go back to counselor the day after we reconcile! And will NOT stop as her treatment for depression is vital for any growth in our marriage.

We don't have a joint bank acct. I handled all our finances. She has only worked the first six months of our relationship, 1 year after giving birth to our son, and the past year. 2 1/2 years total of our 5 years together. She gave mostly all of her money to me to contribute to the home.

But I'm still not fully understanding. Yes I know I need to stand my ground, etc but what about the 180 STUFF!? The old me was stubborn I never backed down, always mentioned and pointed out her flaws or when dishes weren't done or when the house was messy.

One thing I will say guys is that I am fully into my faith, although far from perfect. I have submitted myself first in loving my wife the Godly way, and will draw info, advice, on doing this from many places including here. But I will not follow a DB technique that doesn't line up with where God would lead me. Most of the 180s seem fine though. But I've expressed to her about dishes and cleaning already. If she doesn't want to do these things then I will. Happily. Don't see any good at patronizing her at this point. Will definitely attempt to reclaim the bed even though I don't mind sleeping on couch. We are both on our lease. Our son sleeps in our bedroom though and if she resolves to sleeping elsewhere he will definitely follow. Why should he suffer though? He loves his mom very much as well and cries for her when she is gone at night. I just figured it was in HIS best interest that she was in bed where HE would be comfortable. What helps me do the 180 stuff well is my faith in God. God hates divorce. God blesses marriage. And Gods word says that if you abide in him and he in you then ask for what you want and you shall receive. His word also states Agape love. Loving your wife without expecting anything in return. And if she is not submitting to you or following him then let YOUR actions show God and he will work on her. The 180 stuff is good and inline with this. But anyway..

I appreciate the advice from all, will filter it through God and apply accordingly.

I'm NOT giving up on my wife. Ever. I will keep God first. I will continue the 180s and anything I can within Gods grace to ensure I better myself, and continue to be strong and the guiding light for my son and my wife. Will keep them strong in prayer and through my Godly ordained actions and thoughts.

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Oh wow, I didn't see all the responses. Am on mobile. Well...

@chatter, I am fine now sir. My lighthouse is my lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The strongest source of power I know! I was awakened after that dream I had. And have been OK mentally since. Yes I get sad at times, and feel down, but it is very temporary and never shown to spouse or son...

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@Chatter, what do you think I do to enable her???

Also, I am in counseling myself already to better myself and understand how to deal with her better. I think you missed a few things chatter. I HAVE been educating myself on her condition even before the last breakup. The problem I had was that I didn't care that much if she changed or got better before. I knew of her behavior and her issues! And about things I could be doing to help her. My anger with her simply didn't allow me to care enough to help her get better. I completely understand your concern with her depression and am very grateful for your care. I know you understand the worst case scenario with depression and are concerned with me, and our son but as far as I know, her case is more mild. I do not believe setting excessive boundaries etc is helpful at this point. Already tried that. Again, I am doing well. Of course I get in sad moods from time to time but I am already strengthened through Christ mentally and physically. I understand the focus on self but right now I am OK and will continue to be. All the great advice has been helpful.

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