When it's a one-way street...part 5

[~ kd ~]

NVM, CV...

I'm going to bed... really...

[Crazyville]

I'm not right, I'm confused. What are you seeing? What "but he?"

What I don't have right now is a sense of humor, so if you're trying to be funny, it's getting lost on me.

[Crazyville]

Me, too. Too much cross-posting going on right now anyway. Sleep tight!

[zig]

sweetheart, i think what KD is trying to say is that you may have changed your behavior, but you haven't changed your feelings.

if your feelings don't change, then the behavior is false in a way. what your h perceives from you are your feelings.

from the conversation that you posted a bit earlier, it sounded to me as if your h is really holding back - he's scared of being hurt, not sure where you are really at. he can SENSE your anger and resentment, and he's not sure where he stands with you because of that. it sounded to me like he was asking YOU how can we get the warmth and connection back - he's looking to you to pave the way. you stayed silent and walked away, not engaging with him further - and lost your opportunity to let him know what you thought the 2 of you could do to achieve that.

maybe you are not ready, and that's okay

KD is right - you sound as if you want to win this battle - and as long as you are in the battling mode, you cannot get what you want from your h.

if indeed you are the WAS, then i imagine it is your role here to show him that you mean well and want to work really hard on the relationship (i could be wrong here, so if i am , anyone feel free to correct me)

the fact that you asked him if he's noticed the changes in you? i'm really confused - i thought that was what the LBS asks - maybe i'm wrong.

KD isn't trying to be funny - the way your words sound - when i'm reading them, seem to imply heavily that your h is doing the snoring almost on purpose to piss you off - and that implies heavy resentment on your part.

could you make a list for yourself of what you find really difficult to live with with your h and then very calmly sit down with him and sincerely ask him what the two of you could do together to make things better for both of you? will he go to C with you?

i hope that you can find some peace in all this - i think that you are in a very difficult place inside yourself and confused about how things should go

take care

zig

[Crazyville]

Sorry, Zig, didn't mean to ignore your post. I'll respond briefly and try to add tomorrow.

First, what are "sixes?" Reassurance for what?

"all this" because you're not getting what we are trying to say, or ask you.

I will be the first to admit that.

WAS's awfulize their LBS's - and it seems to me that you are awfulizing this whole movie/sleeping/snoring thing big time.

It isn't awful. I'm not acting like his snoring is the equivalent of an affair. I just don't enjoy my movie when he does. Do you understand that this is not a mild snore? For me, it's as unpleasant as going to the theater and having the person behind you talk through the whole movie. The snoring is not destroying our M. My H's insistence that I subject myself to it is.

seriously, what's your point here? to stay with him and have a good relationship, or to leave?

I've answered this before. I want to have a good R. Is it required of me to watch my movies with snoring in the background in order to have a good M? Is it impossible to have a good M otherwise?

[unbidden]

Why are you fixated on the movie issue? It's not him snoring during the movie that bothers you but you're interpretation of what his snoring means to your relationship. Not to be too blunt, what if he were to die tomorrow? Would the snoring really have mattered or would you give anything at that point to hear him snore one more time? My H has moved out and I miss hearing him snore in bed next to me. You seem like you're trying to control this situation because you've ascribed some bad meaning to the fact that he snores during a movie and THAT is causing you dissatisfaction, not him. You could easily be thinking, instead, "isn't it great that he doesn't feel the need to pretend to like my movie" or "poor guy he must be so tired." Why are you interpreting the events to have the least positive meaning for the relationship when they actually have no independent meaning (just the negative spin you are giving them?) why not do a 180 and see what happens? When he starts snoring next time, tuck him in or go to sleep there with him. See what happens. Don't let your own interpretations tyrannize you or the R.

[Brit45]

I read that you thought my answer was vague. I apologize. When you asked me what my H had done to change my mind I was literally at rock bottom hours after hearing he might be moving in with his GF. I had nothing to give or offer. Plus it was a question I had answered several times both in my thread and others. If you click on someone's user name you can can choose to see all of their posts. You can also use the search button at the top to search a person's username or any key words.

I want to give you some things to think about. You don't have to respond to any of this. Because what I see is people offering you suggestions or information and you immediately defending or explaining why those won't work, why they are work, or why they don't understand your situation.

I'm going to give you something you need right now empathy.

I understand. Because I was there. You are me in Oct. You are tired. Tired of trying. Tired of feeling this way. Tired of being unhappy. Tired of being the only one who is trying. (I once yelled at my therapist why do I have to be the one to do all the work)

You don't want your marriage to end. You don't want to be divorced. You don't want your S to be from a broken home. You don't want to have to admit to family or friends that it failed. That you failed. That you couldn't hold it together. You've done everything you can to try to make this work, you've read everything, you've done everything you possibly could. It's not working and that makes you really angry and sad. But if you're angry and righteous in the fact that you did everything then you don't have to be sad. (I'm not accusing I did that....Well I didn't think I'd tried everything I just convinced myself he was happy like this and I wasn't and so we wanted different things..in reality no he wasn't happy like this, he would just rather have the unhappiness then jump in the uncertainty water of owning up to the problems)

And the no sex? I was there. And that makes you feel like less of a woman. Why does every other woman get to complain about not wanting to and yours doesn't want you? Is there something wrong with you? Are you not sexual, pretty, It makes you feel unloved, unwanted, undesired and when you don't feel those things you can't feel feminine, pretty, soft, kind, caring, warm....why should you take care and dote on someone who hasn't kissed your neck in over a year. You haven't felt butterflies in forever....

here's the thing nothing will change until you decide what you want. I went to IC to "get my head together" on the 4 or 5th session I didn't want to go part of me knew I was going to say it. And I finally said it I think it's over. And then I sobbed and sobbed like a crazy person. And she said "I always thought you were leaning that way" When I look back I can see why because if she suggested anything to help the situation, improve our communication I would shut it down, tell her that wouldn't work, I'd done that before, or flat out I'm not doing that I've done enough! When I would tell her something mean he said ie "We're too smart for counselling. We don't really have problems you're making a mountain out of a molehill." She would said he said that? And I would that as validation. See she sees he's unreasonable!!

I chose to hear what I wanted to support my already made decision that it couldn't/wouldn't work. And I felt like if I ended it the pain would end. But it didn't.

It only takes one person to change the situation. When someone changes the way they act the people around them change. I see that with my teenage son all the time. If I ask him a question with a tone in my voice you can imagine the reaction I get. If I go into the conversation thinking that he's a responsible kid, I get a better reaction. I've also figured out ways to get him to talk to me longer, hang out with me more. It means I watch a lot of Family Guy and South Park and I know more about Star Wars and LOTR than most girls but I'd rather have him in the room with me.

You have to decide if you want to change this situation even if it means you doing the work, you forgiving without getting an apology, you putting aside any feelings of hurt, anger, betrayal, any bad feelings for him aside with out any bit of work on his part for possibly a long time, you also have to be willing to "act as if" with the warmth and things he talked about and mean it. And be able to do it with a givers heart.

I couldn't do that, I wouldn't do that. I was self righteous, angry, determined. I couldn't give, I had nothing to give. If my IC had said "make no decision about the M, you've been living like this for what a year? what's another. Let's work on your self esteem, your self worth, and your communication with H. Why do you feel abandoned, neglected in the M and you can't say because of his actions"...then I honestly think there could have been a chance if I'd chose to hear it and agree. But she didn't and I made the choice to leave. And it hurt not only because I didn't want my marriage to end, and I didn't want to admit to my family and friends who all thought we were a great couple, but because he was my dearest friend, I loved him, and I thought he would be lost without me.

What changed? Well like I said. it only takes one person's actions to affect a situation. He changed. He wasn't going to be lost without me. He wasn't looking to me for support, validation, acceptance, anything. And because of that he wasn't needy, he had his own stuff going on, he related to me like an equal, like a friend. We didn't have the stilted harsh P/A conversations anymore because he didn't need me. (this was actually because he's cut me out of his heart, shut the door, and didn't need that from me rather than working on himself to decide he didn't need that in a R or from a partner)

Any time you spend working on yourself is time well spent. Do you want to be warm, kind, caring, and have good communication with your partner in the future? Whether that's your H or someone else? I think you do. Because you want to be happy we all do. You just need to decide if you want to do this within the marriage or outside the marriage.

I wish someone had told me this and that I had been open. I may not have been open. I had to lose him and part of myself before I decided that the M wasn't the cause of all my unhappiness or his, to remember the good and decide that the bad was all fixable.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[Crazyville]

Thanks, Brit,

I'm going to read your post about 10 more times before I respond to anything else.

In the meantime, I just thought I'd pour gasoline on my head so everyone could throw matches if they want. H sent me this email last night.

SML,

I desperately want our relationship to improve.

Let me ask you this. I know what I need to do to make you feel safe. I need to stop being mean to you. I understand that.

And, I get that I should consult you on decisions like SS's graduation party, or checks to cover portion of that party.

What else can I do?

Do you think I should feel similarly "safe" because you didn't criticize me today? Or because you didn't dwell on the past?

I married the woman I love. Now, it's my calling to love the woman I married. One would think that would be easy!

Love,
M

(BTW, when he says it should be easy, he's chastising himself, not saying I'm impossible to love. This has been said in conversation many times before.)

I'll let you all tell me what to do in response to this. Personally, I can't come up with an answer, because if he's being mean to me and knows it, what else can he do that overrides that? For example, what value does a kiss on the cheek have to me? Or a weekend away? Or anything else?

[2thepoint]

Wow! I don't recall you ever sharing something like this from your H before. So he has the desire to love you but needs help. There seems to be love buried deep down in his heart for you after all? Who'd of thunk it?

I know you have mentioned in the past that he likes to quote biblical scripture (at least that is what I remember). As such maybe now is the time to insist on MC and more specifically, Retrouvaille. Is this something that you can pursue? MC works when both parties have a desire to improve the relationship.

Tough sitch to be in, but that note from your H seems like an opening to my untrained eyes.

[2thepoint]

Oh, and there is a lot of wisdom in Brits post to you above. To my way of thinking, it is better to learn from someone who has paved the way then to have to clear away the brush yourself in order to find your way.