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#2230676 - 03/15/12 02:01 AM Re: Please I need some advice. My H just packed / left [Re: MrBond]
Bestgal Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/12
Posts: 116
Loc: Los Angeles
Oy, you guys are too smart! Kml, I agree. I want him to do the work. At this point, I've agreed to let him come to our house 1 hour per day, at a time I choose, when I'm not here. Since he's living in his car, he'll be able to get his clothes ready for work and shower. (It's not like I'm paying the rent, although I do pay all the other bills).

His marital history: I'm technically the first for love (although he married years before that for his green card and couldn't keep it going, the woman kept wanting money and they D'd). We married 6 months after meeting. God I'm not painting a very good picture of this man, am I? No substance abuse, thankfully.

I've never been married until now. Not sure of his past re: cheating. I know he did cheat once when he was younger, but also had a 5 yr relationship where he said he hadn't cheated.

Yeah, I guess there have been once or twice when I questioned him about a girl I was unsure about and he apologized or said one girl liked him from work and was being persistent in texting him. He chalked it up to me being the one who was wrong, because I actually called the girl. They both say they never got together for lunch, or drinks, or whatever. They both said she was new where they worked and wanted to get into the restaurant business and she asked him about that a lot. God now I don't know what to think.

MrBond - he didn't say those words exactly but did say his friend told him he thought still there might be hope for us (when he called to apologize, bawling). I said I was too shocked to even say much, and he said he knew I'd probably never forgive him or believe anything he said. Would a man admitting infidelity beg to come back into the M right away do you think? I really don't know. He said he hates himself, and I think he should. I kind of hate him too right now.

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#2230686 - 03/15/12 02:17 AM Re: Please I need some advice. My H just packed / left [Re: Bestgal]
MrBond Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/08
Posts: 11959
"he said he knew I'd probably never forgive him or believe anything he said"

Tell him..."don't you dare presume to know what I think or will do".

"Would a man admitting infidelity beg to come back into the M right away do you think?"

Yep it happens all the time. Imagine a child who gets caught with their hand in the cookie jar. First thing they'll deny, next they'll argue back, then in the end they'll cry and apologize profusely. He's saying that because he's caught up in the emotion of it all and maybe he's afraid of the OW's boyfriend beating him up.

Personally, I would tell the boyfriend so that he knows what kind of woman he's going out with. Imagine if they get married and have kids and she keeps up this behavior. Those kids and he will be absolutely miserable. Let him have the choice on whether or not he should be with her.

"He said he hates himself,"

blah blah blah. All lip service. What did he say he would do to make things right? He's just showing regret and not remorse. Regret is saying that he's sorry he got caught (very self-centered) remorse is when they UNDERSTAND the damage they've done and do things to make things right with you (spouse-centered).
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#2230718 - 03/15/12 03:31 AM Re: Please I need some advice. My H just packed / left [Re: MrBond]
Bestgal Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/12
Posts: 116
Loc: Los Angeles
I really want to tell her BF, like you wouldn't believe. I daydream about it constantly, right before winking at her and giving her the finger. Although some here have suggested it isn't recommended in the 2 books I haven't read yet. And that someone could get physically hurt, which I'd feel bad about (questionable). Last, that I shouldn't be the one to act as that role. I can completely see why. Although it's taking everything I have not to find him and tell him. Especially because he'll know exactly how I feel and we can be outraged together. Honestly right now I feel like the two of them got over on me and I want someone to pay for it aside from myself. I like what you said about self-centered vs spouse-centered. That's so right on. I think it must be times like these when you find out your true character.

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#2230897 - 03/15/12 05:25 PM Re: Please I need some advice. My H just packed / left [Re: Bestgal]
Bestgal Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/12
Posts: 116
Loc: Los Angeles
I'd love to hear anyone's suggestions as to how to proceed with that "first conversation" about his affair? We've only had the initial call when he admitted it and fell apart. Do I ask to speak about it, or wait for him to keep asking? He's said he knows I don't want to speak to him right now (which I did say) but I don't know how healthy it is to keep this silence going when we haven't even discussed/gotten to the bottom of the whole thing yet.

It's killing me to not know how it happened, what happened, if he's still seeing her, if he's planning to make changes, and generally what to say at this early stage. I could keep it dark, but then I feel like I have no tangible answers and am making it easier for him. OTOH, if I speak to him about it now, obviously it won't be resolved in a day, and it may not be advisable anyway. I feel like I want some movement. I've already been played by both of them. Now I have to sit in limbo and wonder what he's doing while I suffer?

If we do speak, and he says he wants to work on it, is this the time to lay out what I expect of him? What did you guys do that was effective?

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#2230910 - 03/15/12 06:05 PM Re: Please I need some advice. My H just packed / left [Re: Bestgal]
cdavis Offline
Member

Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 45
Its your choice, but from a guy's perspective I've had affairs and friends that have also. In every case it was from not having a great relationship or needed sex, etc. I'm still working on mine but I think I would be such a better a better husband if I got another chance, if I don't I think I'll be a great a husband to someone else one day. The two friends that worked through there affairs had pretty understanding wives and they both have much better marriages now than before. I would think he would need to be at the "sorry" and begging to have you back stage before you give him a chance.

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#2232531 - 03/22/12 04:01 AM Re: Please I need some advice. My H just packed / left [Re: cdavis]
Bestgal Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/12
Posts: 116
Loc: Los Angeles
I'm not sure if I need to start another thread to ask for additional suggestions here, but I would love any feedback. My H and I spoke about his affair finally... I was really impatient because for a few days, nothing had really happened. He was still living outside and we really didn't speak much. I was starting to think he didn't care at all. I finally approached him and made sure I wasn't accusatory, I just asked questions and tried to be a supportive as I could about him being honest with me. For a few days prior to that he was reluctant to talk about what he had done when I approached it, but the eventual talk went surprisingly well and he got really honest. He answered every question I've had (so far), and agreed to go to therapy. (I did find a therapist who appears to be solution oriented, is pro marriage, and she uses Imago techniques - which I hope won't be too "feelings" oriented; I want to start off our first session not scaring the hell out of him!)

I'm just really scared about it all. I wonder if he thinks I'm a pushover? Is he just going through the motions to get back in? Does he think he'll do it again some day? I'm not even sure how to act toward him this early on...I've been slightly detached from him, and I have my upset moments during the day, but for the most part I'm being pretty kind and pleasantly going about my business by trying to take some space so that I don't get too overwhelmed. I don't want him to think all is back to normal or that all is forgiven, and I've made it pretty clear I don't trust him at all right now - but I'm still his wife.

Also - this kind of surprised me but I want to be sexual with him like you wouldn't believe. (or maybe you know the feeling!) Is that normal?

He's told me a few times he completely cut it off with her, although they do still work together. I pray he gets the hell out of there soon.

I guess there's no blueprint for how to act toward a cheating spouse in the initial first few weeks, but I have to say, this is really confusing! Do you avoid even trying to be intimate? What the hell do you do to not make things worse in this fragile stage? I guess there's no real timeline, or rules.

He also answered some of my questions last night that were really tough for me to hear. It's like this person I thought I knew so well - said and did things in his affair that were not at all in the realm of his "normal" personality.

Half of me feels like he's truly remorseful, and is really feeling all of the effects of what he's done. The other half of me feels like maybe I simply married some kind of a master manipulating player!

Back and forth it goes....

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#2232913 - 03/23/12 10:16 PM How to approach sex/needs (soon after his affair)?
Bestgal Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/12
Posts: 116
Loc: Los Angeles
Hi - I had posted here about a week ago and got some great perspectives from people when I confirmed that my H was having an affair w a coworker... The original thread is merged below:


We're right now at the point where he's being extremely open and honest, and I'm really really grateful / surprised about that. He's agreed that we do need to see a therapist. I found one, and we're going to him soon. He also let me know that the OW called him the other night, but he didn't call her back. I really appreciated that.

I know that this is hardly the time to be jumping back into sexual intimacy with him, but between the lessening of our having sex over time, added to the affair that he recently had, its really made me feel rejected by him sexually. I've been wanting to be with him even more than before as the days go by...and last night he said something like he can't even begin to think any thoughts of sex right now. I understand that to a point, but being so new in this together, I wonder will it ever come back? Will he be comparing the worst of me to the best of her? That comment really bothered me a lot. I feel like he did things with her so easily that he and I have been stuck on because of either his or my unresolved issues / hangups in the bedroom.

I feel like this OW got all of the parts of him that I was supposed to have, and now he and I are even more broken than before and can't connect. It's difficult thinking that he's 'gotten off' by letting someone touch him, and kissed her extensively (everywhere) when our kissing has been few and far between....I'm sure it seems odd to want to be with him after he betrayed our marriage, but I haven't stopped desiring him, it's just our sex life has been so obscured by our lack of true communication. He's always behaved like he was attracted to me, etc but none of that seems to matter right now - I almost don't believe I ever pleased him. And part of me wishes we didn't have any kind of sex life in the recent past - at least that would make some solid sense as to why he did what he did.

All that aside, I guess I'm lucky in that we are spending time together NOT talking about it too, and we're having fun just hanging out. I've been pushing myself to get out and GAL also, so that's helped a lot. Just because I'm married to him doesn't mean he can fix anything in me!

I told him last night that even though all this was going on, that I still had urges, and if he wasn't in the place where he could get into it with me, I'd need to do it myself. He said he was fine with that. Which really pissed me off, I'll be honest! I feel like when we have sex it should be my choice right now. Healthy thinking, I know.

I'm probably being selfish and impatient. I just don't know how to act sometimes. There are times when I don't even feel anything for him, which I don't understand. It's like everything has been shut off for a window of time. Then I feel loving, then I want to be intimate, then I want to kick him in the head. When I'm nice to him, it feels genuine to be that way. But a few minutes later my head tells me to stop because he's going to take that as a sign that all is forgiven. It isn't.

He told me last night that he feels horrible for what he's done and how much he's hurt me. He keeps reiterating that he wants to work on this. I believe him, but I also feel like I don't know this person, so how can I truly believe anything he says?

If you have any insight or experiences that might help me make some sense out of all this, I'd love to hear them. Thanks...


Edited by Cadet (04/21/15 01:00 PM)
Edit Reason: delete link

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#2232925 - 03/23/12 11:08 PM Re: How to approach sex/needs (soon after his affair)? [Re: Bestgal]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 11328
Loc: west coast
I am going to go back and read your old thread before going into detail b/c I don't know the nature of his affair or how you discovered it, etc.

How long was it, how much did he have to lie, did he "love" her, or was it all physical, or some combination, etc.

Also I don't know what YOUR "unresolved" issues are vis a vis sex. You mentioned them so we know you have some.

If you were reluctant to do some things and he really wanted to, that's something you will have to address. If it offends you or hurts you to do "x", that's one thing.

But If you are over reacting to a request, or always want the same thing to occur, or are too inhibited, those are totally different issues, for you and sex therapist to deal with.

And we don't know your h's issues either.

But know this, a lot of m's go through trying times with their sex lives. And aging has it's own challenges.

I won't judge that or you. I will say something I heard from the priest who married us (& of all people, I sure did not expect HIM to say this)

which was "Nothing is defiled in the marital bed"....


Originally Posted By: Bestgal
Hi - I had posted here about a week ago and got some great perspectives from people when I confirmed that my H was having an affair w a coworker... The original thread is below:


http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...939#Post2229939

We're right now at the point where he's being extremely open and honest, and I'm really really grateful / surprised about that. He's agreed that we do need to see a therapist. I found one, and we're going to him soon. He also let me know that the OW called him the other night, but he didn't call her back. I really appreciated that.

this^^ is all good.
Has there been an open "break up" with her yet? There will need to be, but until I go back and read your old thread, I'll leave it at that.

(You might want to include a brief summary of your old thread though. It's a hassle to go back to it, and yet I can't really advise much without doing that. And you have a long post here...just a suggestion.)



I know that this is hardly the time to be jumping back into sexual intimacy with him, but between the lessening of our having sex over time, added to the affair that he recently had, its really made me feel rejected by him sexually. I've been wanting to be with him even more than before as the days go by


this^^^ makes sense to me. You want reassurances that you are desired by him. Are you overweight? Is there anything he has said that makes you think he does not desire you, apart from the affair?

It sounded like you were still being intimate (part of your confusion about the affair I assume) so he probably is attracted to you. But feels shame and guilt PERHAPS...I don't want to mind read but those are possibilities.


...and last night he said something like he can't even begin to think any thoughts of sex right now. I understand that to a point, but being so new in this together, I wonder will it ever come back?


Yes it can come back. Depends a LOT on why he feels unable to now.

Maybe he feels unworthy of you...maybe he's angry at himself
OR you or OW and fears "non performance" (or even an STD. Did he get tested? Did you? I am not suggesting you do so, but you ought to think about it.) Maybe he's depressed.

Why not specifically ASK him why he doesn't feel ready? He may assume you won't want to b/c you are too angry at him. OR he won't satisfy you b/c you'll withold that possibility??

I don't know. But you don't know either and there are a lot of things left unasked and unsaid here. I think that's a problem you CAN work on and you must.


Will he be comparing the worst of me to the best of her? That comment really bothered me a lot.

what comment? That it's too soon? Why does that bother you so much?

And as for whether he'll compare you two, no one can answer that. Nor would I assume you'd lose in all the comparisons IF they do happen.

But were you a virgin when you married him? If not, did YOU compare him to all the other men you were with before?

Even if you did compare, you still married him. As hard as this can be, try NOT to obsess about that stuff b/c guess what? You KNOW YOU have issues or hangups to work on. Maybe if you do that, the bulk of this will evaporate.

AND obsessing about them, will defeat your marriage.

If he believes you cannot get past this OR that you will hold it over his head like the Sword of Damacles the rest of his life

Or throw it in his face whenver you two fight, he'll leave. Obsessing about these types of things does not help YOU or the "cause" of your marriage.

Put a Stop Sign in your mind when thoughts of them together enter your brain. IF and when you two are intimate again, focus on HIM and him alone. Be in the present.

I feel like he did things with her so easily that he and I have been stuck on because of either his or my unresolved issues / hangups in the bedroom.

you are mind reading here^^^ and it's negative. You make assumptions that go against you b/c you are in pain. Don't go there. He married you for a reason and he says he wants to work on the marriage.

Why are you leaving things unresolved? The "hangups in the bedroom" stuff.....hey YOU CAN work on this. If you have "hangups in the bedroom" then it sounds to me as if you have already identified at least one problem to work on,
They says a "Problem being worked on, is no longer a problem." Fix them.


I feel like this OW got all of the parts of him that I was supposed to have, and now he and I are even more broken than before and can't connect.


more mind reading, & negative assumptions. How is this problem finally being out in the open and being worked on, now "more broken than before"...?? Slow down. You both need time to regroup.

Let him learn to RELAX around you again. Same for you. Be in each other's company having some FUN time. See a great movie or a comedy (no romantic flicks yet). Be engaged in an activity together.

Do not bring up the Affair, or your marriage, or sex until you see the therapist unless he brings it up.


THEN YOU LISTEN and then listen some more.

Try hard not to judge or criticize. (((b/c hey, You can always do that later!))) Right now you want to understand the reasons so you can feel safe again. I get that. But it takes time and NOT pressuring him at the moment.

Let him rebuild the trust that is gone. And don't expect things to be all normal again, ever. But they can be better than before.

Other couples have recovered after affairs. Any chance you two can attend the marriage weekend retreat called "Retrovaille"? It's for marriages in crisis. Many of the couples there have your issue. And they do recover, and more.


It's difficult thinking that he's 'gotten off' by letting someone touch him, and kissed her extensively (everywhere) when our kissing has been few and far between...

Stop assuming^^^ this stuff.

If this is stuff he's telling you, STOP asking him for details.

You don't need those to work on this marriage, and it sure sounds as if the more details you have, the harder it is to get past.

have you read the Div Remedy book? It addresses this topic.



.I'm sure it seems odd to want to be with him after he betrayed our marriage, but I haven't stopped desiring him, it's just our sex life has been so obscured by our lack of true communication.

not odd. Sometimes anger prevents the LBSer from wanting to reconnect but if a restored marriage is really your goal and punishing him isn't, then at some point intimacy will have to occur. But for now, BACK OFF and let him take the lead. (Was that an issue for you guys before?)

He said he's not ready. Believe him.

You are making many assumptions, colored by your hurt feelings & wounded ego. But you KNOW that communication on this topic is poor.

Why not work on that w/a professional?



He's always behaved like he was attracted to me, etc but none of that seems to matter right now - I almost don't believe I ever pleased him. And part of me wishes we didn't have any kind of sex life in the recent past - at least that would make some solid sense as to why he did what he did.

All that aside, I guess I'm lucky in that we are spending time together NOT talking about it too, and we're having fun just hanging out. I've been pushing myself to get out and GAL also, so that's helped a lot. Just because I'm married to him doesn't mean he can fix anything in me!

^^^ Good insights!! For now, just be comfortable around each other.
No drama, no trauma. Heal...then see the Therapist but make sure they are "pro marriage" people b/c not all are. Some urge divorce b/c it's easier than working on marriages and b/c they see a lot of divorce anyhow...


I told him last night that even though all this was going on, that I still had urges, and if he wasn't in the place where he could get into it with me, I'd need to do it myself. He said he was fine with that. Which really pissed me off, I'll be honest! I feel like when we have sex it should be my choice right now. Healthy thinking, I know.


You see that you set him up for failure here^^^, right? No matter what he said, he would lose.

If he said "don't take care of it yourself" you'd be mad b/c he's denying/restricting you...

but he said "go ahead" and you are upset b/c you think it means he does not care enough,

even though he says he loves you and wants to work on the marriage. Try to identify these patterns and avoid them in the future. For both your sakes.



I'm probably being selfish and impatient. I just don't know how to act sometimes. There are times when I don't even feel anything for him, which I don't understand. It's like everything has been shut off for a window of time.

You are being impatient w/yourself b/c you think that once sex resumes the bad feelings will go away. But that will take more time. You are not being selfish. I think you are in a self preservation mode. Calm down and give yourself a break...and him too.


Then I feel loving, then I want to be intimate, then I want to kick him in the head. When I'm nice to him, it feels genuine to be that way. But a few minutes later my head tells me to stop because he's going to take that as a sign that all is forgiven. It isn't.

STOP BELIEVING THAT A LOVING RESPONSE HURTS YOU OR YOUR CAUSE...

he will not assume "all is forgiven" b/c you are kind to him.

kindness and forgiveness are marks of a strong woman, not a doormat

You are trying to mend a wounded marriage. More anger does not help.

Plus, you seem to realize you played a part in this affair, so why not focus on YOUR work since it's all you control anyhow?

The idea that some LBSers have that they cannot be "too warm or happy" in front of their adulterous spouse

b/c they fear it frees the spouse of guilt- is so misguided AND punitive and it hurts YOU the most.

HOW?

B/c if the "cheater" believes, accurately or not, that the LBSer will hold onto her pain and anger

and that he'll be in the dog house for a long time OR an indefinite time,

then he won't even bother trying to work on the marriage. Why should he?

In other words, the sooner you CAN genuinely forgive him, the better off YOU will be. Anger can consume and hurt YOU more than hurt or consume him.

Holding onto your anger to punish him is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in his eyes.


OW may be a warm, inviting woman who affirms him and makes him comfortable....do you as a wife really want to be the opposite of that?

IF the wounded wife plays the martyr all the time and won't let go of her pain in front of him , b/c she fears he has not suffered enough, she will lose him for good.

Do you want to be "right" or do you want to be "happy"?



He told me last night that he feels horrible for what he's done and how much he's hurt me. He keeps reiterating that he wants to work on this. I believe him, but I also feel like I don't know this person, so how can I truly believe anything he says?


time will help, along with consistent action by both of you that demonstrates change in both of you. That will lead to change you can believe in. And at some level you both must believe that your marriage can change and improve over what it was before...or it will end.

How are you demonstrating change in YOU to him?

If you have any insight or experiences that might help me make some sense out of all this, I'd love to hear them. Thanks...


I'll try to read your old thread if I have time

I hope some of this helps, and Hang in there
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy or be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Our way out of hell

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#2232926 - 03/23/12 11:23 PM Re: How to approach sex/needs (soon after his affair)? [Re: 25yearsmlc]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 11328
Loc: west coast
I read your other thread.


I don't think I'd change any of the advice I gave you. You MUST Read the DIv Remedy book as soon as possible.

Many of your expectations are unrealistic in terms of a time line.

AND if you want to restore this marriage, then you have to stop wanting to expose the affair to others.

It will probably hurt the OW's partner a lot...and she sounds as if she's trying to be better with him.

Plus, it will backfire big time on YOU. You may push them together more, b/c you will be cornering them

or you may just harm his career and piss him off more b/c really what does this have to do with his JOB?

And you may also look crazy. On my high schoo reunion website some ex wife posted to "warn" other wives that "X" girl might steal their husbands like she had stolen the ex wife's.

Several people commented that the EX WIFE sounded nutty/bitchy...not a word about the OW.

That's how it is seen. So don't make him think the choice to cheat makes sense or make others think you deserved him doing that b/c you are so vindictive.

Finally, do you want to repair this marriage?

Then you both have some real work to do, including you and some of your tit for tat concerns.

Keep the Road Home Paved and Smooth, and don't make it any harder for him than it already will be.

That does NOT mean you are being a doormat or saying "all is forgiven."

Maybe you can get Bond to advise you on how to pave a way for your h to come home WITH EFFORT on his end, obviously, (Bond is good at it so that's why I suggest this)

and maybe then it won't look so hopeless to your h. To me it seems your pride is very wounded, clearly BUT that also seems to be what you are following.

Don't let a wounded ego be your guide now.

Why on earth is he living in a car?

How long do you think it'll take before his remorse turns into resentment?

If he feels that in some way your hangups played a part in his affair, (which YOU admit)

won't you force him to start rationalizing it more?

Food for thought.
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy or be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Our way out of hell

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#2232969 - 03/24/12 03:58 AM Re: How to approach sex/needs (soon after his affair)? [Re: 25yearsmlc]
Bestgal Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/12
Posts: 116
Loc: Los Angeles
Thanks for your insight 25yearsmlc...and for checking out my (long) previous thread. I probably wasn't too clear on the updates: he is now living back in the house with me, since a few days ago. I had thought it would be best for us to communicate, or at least try. This is when he came clean with me and has been honest since.

AND if you want to restore this marriage, then you have to stop wanting to expose the affair to others.

I've since stopped trying to expose this to anyone. I never told the OW's guy, and I never thought to tell anyone else for fear it would hurt him more. I agree that it would only backfire.

You had mentioned that it's a misconception of some to believe we should protect ourselves by not being too kind, for fear our spouses will take advantage of that, and not do the work to earn back trust, etc. I had honestly not considered that it was more harmful and kind of playing games. So I'm reconsidering that position, as much as I can anyway.

And I do have a lot of work to do - on me. He will be a large component in the "us" work, but I am certainly not without some seams to mend, and I know that!

I have read both DB and DR - maybe not thoroughly enough...I could use another pass or two at both. Hopefully I'll look back in a few months, or a year or more and see that all of this pain and uncomfortable feelings were what made me (and my marriage) stronger.

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