Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 12 1 2 3 4 5 11 12
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,111
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,111
I will say that my H does't talk to OW in our house. He talks to her by phone when he is driving to and from work. Guess I should be glad of that.

He does this despite proclaiming strongly and often that we are separated.

I like what Bustorama said. Rick too. After guitars comes tamborines and we will all live in a yellow submarine!

Aloha! Enjoy Spain!


Me 57 XH 58 Sons age 32 & 27 M:32
D final 9/12
Bought 10 Acres and Living the Dream!
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,711
2
Member
OP Offline
Member
2
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,711
Originally Posted By: bustorama
Mmmm...yoga girl


Those were some HOT yoga momma's, Busto!!

"Hey Yoga, I sure would looovve to get to know ya, I’ve got a couple 2nd level poses I could show ya" laugh cool laugh


Me51 W53 S17 S14
M22 T25
Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11

It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.

Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,711
2
Member
OP Offline
Member
2
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,711
Originally Posted By: bustorama
2tp,

You've backslid some.

You allowed yourself to become attached again -- not only in terms of your hope for the R, but also in being concerned about your W's reactions (and measuring your behavior in terms of eliciting or not eliciting a certain reaction in your W).


I suppose you are right, but I don't see how it was possible to do otherwise. I mean I spent an entire month back at the house half of which was with her in the hospital. It is hard to not get reattached again.

Originally Posted By: bustorama
Another example of your reattaching is your concern about her speculated breast reduction. Your only legitimate concerns here are how it affects your wallet and how it might affect your kids. It is her body and since you are not living as a married couple, it's not your place to say anything about it other than on the financial side (and there wouldn't be an issue here if your finances were separated) or how the surgery may impact your shared child care situation.


Well, fortunately I never said a word about the BR to my W other than to ask a few clarifying questions. Any issues or concerns I had I brought here to the boards. This should be a safe place to vent, right?

Originally Posted By: bustorama
Again, it's paradoxical, but the less attached you are to her life and decisions, the faster your situation will resolve one way or the other. The more attached and involved you are, the more the limbo and cake eating will continue (because you are allowing it to and tacitly validating it).


I hadn't looked at it this way and I suppose you are right. But now that I think about it, I don't want to necessarily accelerate the issue. I mean, if prolonging things allows time for any changes I want to make to set and allows time for my W to see those changes, isn't that a good thing?

Originally Posted By: bustorama
Remember, your W kicked you out of the house. She did not invite you back to the house to reconcile with you. She allowed you in for caregiving (borderline cake eating) that you "volunteered." And you didn't volunteer it selflessly and without expectation. You did it in part hoping that it would clear her fog. That your "unconditional" love would bring about a change in her. It's a form of controlling behavior.


Can't argue with this ^^^. Although, I don't really view it as controlling, but I'll accept your point in good faith.

Originally Posted By: bustorama
While it was the right thing to take care of her and the kids in the greatest time of need, there reached a point at some time after you were in HER house (notice that you started calling it home in your messages? reality -- to her, it's NOT your home anymore) where your caregiving became more about YOUR needs (to be with her, to hope it would lead to a change in mind in her) than about whether she REALLY needed you in a medical way. If there was an issue re: her ability to care for the kids, you could as easily have taken the kids to your place and brought them to school from there, and she could have gotten all the rest she needed.


I think I maybe stayed 1 week too long. and I should have exited before she said she was ready for me to leave. That would have been a better way to play that hand.

Originally Posted By: bustorama
When the W is WAS and fogged out in an A, they will NOT get de-fogged if you play plan doormat and let them lead about how long you "can" stay in the guest bedroom ("I hope she lets me stay another week in the corner of the house to tend to her needs"). That is emasculating and not attractive. There is no mojo in being obsequious and saying, "I will stay here and cater to you until the day that you want me to leave. I don't want to stay a day longer than bothers you."


This ^^^ is not a very attractive picture you portray here. I have to say though that I'm not sure how I would have handled things differently considering the circumstances. Perhaps I could have said nothing and just gone about my business and when I felt like she was recovered enough, made my exit. Is this what you are saying, Busto?

Originally Posted By: bustorama
Come on, man. You think your W will find that viscerally HOT or STRONG?


Well, maybe if I demonstrated a HOT yoga pose?!?! laugh

Originally Posted By: bustorama
Where is your value in that? Yeah, when she medically needs you, you take care of her and do a bang up job at it. But, then, when is well enough, YOU decide early it's time for you to go and get on with your life (because she never indicated she wanted you to be part of hers again). If you reconcile, SHE will need to pull you back. She will need to convince you that she will work for you and the R, as much as you have done for her. It's hard for her to pull you back if you are pushing yourself into her home saying I will stay here until you ask me to leave.


Good points ^^^.

Originally Posted By: bustorama
Why do you feel bad about going to yoga with a female friend? It's reality to your W. Part of dumping your H is that he may have some REALLY hot yoga. Namaste.

Part of YOU accepting the current reality is that you should make your life choices based on what is best for 2tp (or kids) and NOT about what W will think. Even if you were living as a married couple, I don't see what is wrong with going to yoga with a female friend. But, since you are NOT living as a married couple, I cannot fathom what is objectionable about going to yoga with a friend. If she has a problem with it, she can make the connection that she chose that reality.


I don't know Busto, I guess I still feel a sense of commitment to my W and M. I know this is not based on rational thought or even reality, but it is how I feel. Hell, I still wear my damn wedding ring. What do you suppose that says about me and my hopes and desires?

Anyway, thanks for the thought provoking post. I'm now back at the bachelor pad and can begin anew my efforts to bust this divorce!


Me51 W53 S17 S14
M22 T25
Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11

It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.

Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 538
Likes: 10
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 538
Likes: 10
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
I suppose you are right, but I don't see how it was possible to do otherwise....It is hard to not get reattached again.


It is especially hard when you are in the moment/sitch.

Originally Posted By: bustorama
Another example of your reattaching is your concern about her speculated breast reduction.


Originally Posted By: 2thepointWell, fortunately I never said a word about the BR to my W other than to ask a few clarifying questions. Any issues or concerns I had I brought here to the boards. This should be a safe place to vent, right?[/quote


Yes, it is always safe here.

It's not just about what you say to whom, though. It's really about where you are emotionally. If you were detached, you not only would not say anything about it to her, but you also would not feel as much of a need to vent about it here on the boards. The attachment not only makes day-to-day life harder and more painful, it also can hinder your ability to live your separate life to the fullest (because you keep looking over your shoulder wondering what she would think of your doing YYYY, or wondering what on earth she is thinking to do XXX, etc.).

It may be scary for you to think about, but if you were a little more detached from her and the outcome, you would be coming from a stronger place, and life would be more fulfilling.

Originally Posted By: bustorama
Again, it's paradoxical, but the less attached you are to her life and decisions, the faster your situation will resolve one way or the other. The more attached and involved you are, the more the limbo and cake eating will continue (because you are allowing it to and tacitly validating it).


Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
I hadn't looked at it this way and I suppose you are right. But now that I think about it, I don't want to necessarily accelerate the issue. I mean, if prolonging things allows time for any changes I want to make to set and allows time for my W to see those changes, isn't that a good thing?


Detaching is not the same as filing for divorce nor is it even the same as LRT/no contact. It is simply your state of mind in relation to her feelings and actions. You could be physically living with your W and still be fully detached from her (and not mean, uncaring or ignoring). She could be witness to all of your changes while you are detached from her. It's really important that you get what it means to be detached.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

The idea of planting seeds "in order for your W to see changes" is also a form of control. Let your W be and love who she wants to. Change yourself because it's the right way to be, NOT in order to win her back.

Think of her relationship to OM/A as an addiction, and the below may make more sense to you? Here are some particularly relevant concepts relevant:

Fourth: Admit to yourself that there is only one person you can change and that is yourself and that for your serenity you need to let go of the "need" to fix, change, or rescue...other persons, places and things.

Fifth: Recognize that it is "sick" and "unhealthy" to believe that you have the power or control enough to fix, correct, change, heal or rescue another person, place or thing if they do not...see a need to change.

Seventh: Continue to own your feelings as your responsibility and not blame others for the way you feel.

Eighth: Accept personal responsibility for your own unhealthy actions, feelings and thinking and cease looking for the persons, places or things you can blame for your unhealthiness.

Tenth: Accept that...people...in your current life are "irrational,"...influences in your life, label them honestly for what they truly are, and stop minimizing their negative impact in your life.

Eleventh: Reduce the impact of guilt...which impede your ability to develop detachment in your life.

Twelfth: Practice "letting go" of the need to correct, fix or [change] the persons...in life over which you have no control or power to change.

Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
Although, I don't really view it as controlling, but I'll accept your point in good faith.


If you do something IN ORDER TO influence someone else's feelings about you or with some EXPECTATION of the effect it might have on someone else's feelings or behavior, then it is controlling behavior. You are trying to control them (or their feelings) via your behavior. If you do it simply because you love/care for them and with no expectation/hope/contingency, then it really is giving/unconditional behavior.

Originally Posted By: bustorama
When the W is WAS and fogged out in an A, they will NOT get de-fogged if you play plan doormat and let them lead about how long you "can" stay in the guest bedroom ("I hope she lets me stay another week in the corner of the house to tend to her needs"). That is emasculating and not attractive. There is no mojo in being obsequious and saying, "I will stay here and cater to you until the day that you want me to leave. I don't want to stay a day longer than bothers you."


Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
This ^^^ is not a very attractive picture you portray here. I have to say though that I'm not sure how I would have handled things differently considering the circumstances. Perhaps I could have said nothing and just gone about my business and when I felt like she was recovered enough, made my exit.


Active, declarative statements.

"W, I know you've been through hell and back. I'm here to help. I am going to stay in the guest bedroom until you are well enough to take care of yourself. When I go back to my place, I also can take the kids with me for a few nights, if you need, so that you can have more time to get strong on your own. In the meantime, let me know what I can help with. What sounds good for dinner, W?"

Then when you thought she seemed close to well enough

"OK, W. You seem to be getting better and better. I am thinking of going back to my place tomorrow (or 2 days from now). How about we take the rest of today (and tomorrow) as a transition/dress rehearsal to see how you can manage on your own, but with me still here to help?"

If she still wants you there then, she will ASK YOU. Psychologically, it is coming from a very different place if she asks you to stay vs. accedes for you to stay (or worse asks you to leave).

Originally Posted By: bustorama
Come on, man. You think your W will find that viscerally HOT or STRONG?


Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
Well, maybe if I demonstrated a HOT yoga pose?!?! laugh


Unblock your chakra, man!

Originally Posted By: bustorama
But, since you are NOT living as a married couple, I cannot fathom what is objectionable about going to yoga with a friend.


Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
I don't know Busto, I guess I still feel a sense of commitment to my W and M. I know this is not based on rational thought or even reality, but it is how I feel. Hell, I still wear my damn wedding ring. What do you suppose that says about me and my hopes and desires?


Would you not go to yoga with a female friend if you and W were happily married? Or is there some chemistry with this female friend? Some hot chaturanga running through your mind?

The wedding ring is a very personal thing. I took mine off a few months in, then put it back on, then took mine off again. In the end, my W put hers back on again before I did. All kinds of reasons to wear or not wear it. I took mine off for the extended time when I decided that there was no point in wearing it anymore -- who was I married to if there was no one else symbolically wearing theirs in return? I totally get where you are coming from in wearing it, though.

Two things I CAN tell you, if you are wearing it because you are concerned that your taking it off would have a NEGATIVE effect on her, 1) you are not detached from her AND 2) the concern is misplaced.




Anyway, thanks for the thought provoking post. I'm now back at the bachelor pad and can begin anew my efforts to bust this divorce!


Me-53
W-49
D22,D18,D15
T-Since-12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Piecing start-04/2011
Now-together
Thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 538
Likes: 10
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 538
Likes: 10
Crap I butchered that response, please be sure to read in the embedded box


Me-53
W-49
D22,D18,D15
T-Since-12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Piecing start-04/2011
Now-together
Thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,119
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,119
2Pac - you're a great friend so please understand when I say that some of the hardest toughest posts to read are the ones we need the most. Think about how 25 and then Mach used to wave away all our BS and say here's the truth if you're man enough to look at it.

Frankly, everyone on this board and probably everyone you know knows what a great heart and soul you have. That's not in question. I think Busto's comments should be given serious consideration. We do blind oursleves out of desperation and we need a NEO every now and then to show us THe Matrix is real.

I so want you to have the love you deserve and that can't help but come given time.

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,119
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,119
In your wife's case it's hey yoga squirrel

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 951
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 951
Busto is coming hard and I agree w/ Rick that Busto's comments are worthy of some deep thought. I am using them for my own sitch.


6 Days till Spain 2Pacalyse, I'm so excited for you!!


Me- 34 W-33
S15 S10 S6
Married- 11 Together- 18
Bomb- 6-2011
WAW moves out- 8-2011

"Nothing in the Universe can stop you from letting go and starting over at anytime"- Guy Finley
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 88
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 88
2thepoint - I feel your pain, my friend. So, saw my H for first time in 6 weeks...sooo stinkin' hard. Love him. Attracted to him. Want him home. He fixed stuff at house on Thursday (I made myself scarce), saw him Friday at S16's hockey game, he came by house on Sat to talk to S16 about cellphone stuff implicating dangerous behavior so we could be "united front" and fixed internet while he was here which dropped off loft computer.

So...yeah! I am FEELING RE-ATTACHED because for teh first time since August he is showing us some attention.

So, I sit here after FULL day of volunteering, church, lunch with friends, long talk with brother in Germany about upcoming trip, wondering what the heck is going on. Yep, pulled back into the MLC vortex. Sad and weeping. HAven't been that way for a few weeks. I feel your pain, my friend. I reread the advice of wise DB'ers to you and try to apply them to my situation. Heaven help us all.


Me: 44 H: 45
Married 22
S 18, S 16
Bomb 8/11, Second Bomb 1/12
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 803
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 803
How many more days until Spain? Getting excited for you!


Me:38.. H:33.
Two beautiful kids S:6 D:3
M:8.. together for 11.
Bomb dropped:10/17/11
Separated:11/07/11
Page 3 of 12 1 2 3 4 5 11 12

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard