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KD, you blew my cover! smile

Nah, it's okay. I'm just not the old LG. I've changed so much and have read a lot about ACT - the coaching program has changed my life for the better, as has byron katie - and even the law of attraction (in understanding resistance). I'm in a deep process right now, and it's exhausting, challenging, but wonderful. My destroyed relationship has been an utter gift in the end. And I'm in an ongoing process of understanding my ex (still) so that we can be good coparents to our daughter - it helps when he's not in my face all the time, and I'm not having triggers, trauma, reactions, etc.

I hope you're doing well!

(Sorry to hijack!)

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lol... yeah, sorry for hijack DIM... smile

Good that LG is now ESN... Keep doing the good work! And yeah, I'm doing well.

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Cool!

I hope DIM finds herself on the same path soon. The anger and resistance is exhausting. The trauma is there. The holding on to what could have been; I identify so much with it and feel so much compassion. But when you see it as a gift to change to something so much more of who you are, and you can access those new places, it is a HUGE blessing - the key is that sometimes some of us need to exhaust ourselves and hit rock bottom before we can start getting it (ahem, not mentioning any names! :)) (and I do mean me)

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You're right, Ken. I am losing control. I'm not about to deny that. I literally feel like I'm on the brink of a major meltdown. Sometimes I feel like I'm in an alternate reality. This week while H has been gone the laundry has piled up, I've done no dishes, but I haven't really needed to do dishes because all I've consumed is Diet Coke, tortillas and Reese's Pieces. I think I washed my hair once. I keep my D safe, but I've rarely interacted with her. Even my staff have commented on how eerily quiet I've been this week.

So, yes, I'm aware of the true issue at hand.

I don't know what I want. I want to feel safe. I want to not question EVERY SINGLE BEHAVIOR. I've even gone so far as to think that the only reason H wanted to move was to get the house out of our names into an apartment which is easier to dump me from.

He did almost all the laundry for me before he left (put it away too, which is really rare). While I thanked him for it, all I could think was "he just did so much laundry so I won't notice he's packing more than usual. He probably will pack not only work clothes, but a bunch of going out attire as well... or enough to last him longer than his week that he told me and something will 'come up' requiring him to stay longer".

I am paranoid as f*ck.

I want to drink and smoke cigarettes (don't ask me why... I've never smoked ANYTHING in my life!). I want to drop off the baby with my parents and drive to my Godparents house in Colorado and be isolated for a month in the woods.

I want OW to drive off a f*cking cliff. She might lose her job in the next two weeks (there have been major layoffs at H's job), but at this point in time, it's still not enough.

I want my sanity back. I want my sleep back. I want my peace of mind back. I want my memory back.

I don't want to deal with this bullsh!t anymore.

I know exactly where this fear comes from. My father had an affair. My husband comes from a family of psychopathic liars. I am terrified that I will never know the truth, I will always be f*cked over, I will always have to watch my back, and I will never be safe.

Mix in the very real fact that H has a top secret job and I literally cannot know a lot of what happens, and I'm kind of screwed. Unless I just put on a happy face, "let go and let God" or whatever you want to call it, and dial up my antidepressants.

I knew my anger would be the thing that would be hard to deal with. Not because I experience residual anger over lots of things, but because my best friend (who was in a relationship for a long time with a chronic cheater) warned me. She said, "you think that if they just stop the cheating then you can forgive and be happy again. But it's the anger that will get you. You will be so angry."

And that's why I got my own place, despite the fact that he tried to stop me (notice he didn't ASK me to come home, just asked me NOT to get the apt). I knew I was too angry. I thought it was over.

And then I found those f*cking emails/chats. I feel like I'm back at square one. At least this time he wants to stay married, but I feel like I could kill him. The first time this happened, I wanted to kill only myself.

I have a very heavy month of work ahead, as well as some heavy editing to my thesis. I've thought of putting D to bed like I do every night, and then excusing myself to the library down the street until it closes. It will trap him at the apartment and yet I can be away from him. I don't trust myself to be in the same room with him and not lash out.

And yes, I specifically used the word trap. I feel like I have to. That's where I'm at.

I'm at a loss of what to do.

I know at this time I sound crazy, unappreciative, childish, and illogical. But I genuinely thank you all for sticking by my side. You guys, and 4 other people, are the only ones I've told about this recent episode. And I haven't told those other people how much I'm struggling with it (aside from my IC). You are all I've got. Thank you for trying to take care of me. Because at this point, I feel very incapable of taking care of me, much less my M.


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Oh, and by the way...

I never sent that tirade of an email.


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What is your IC saying about what's going on with you, right now?

Do you have an emergency number for the IC?

I'm not overly worried about you atm, DIM... but you do appear on the edge and while you are venting here, which is well and good... you sound like you are stuffing it down IRL...

But it does worry me about your D... I'm sure you are taking care of her basic needs, but what is your plan B in case you really do need to check out for a while with some down time for you?

You're going on that trip, right? Or "outing" as you called it... That should help.

You talked about your meds... have you gone through a review on them?

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I'm actually seeing my IC tomorrow. And you're right, KD, I am stuffing it. I don't know who to turn to. I feel like I can't tell my family anymore. They haven't been outwardly angry with H, but there are comments now and again that make me think otherwise (sister said once, "sometimes H acts like we're all just going to forget about what happened..." and my dad said today, "well, I'm avoiding my taxes... I guess technically I could claim you as a dependent because you lived half the year with me..."). I don't think I could handle them having to handle him. My best friend (the one who dated the chronic cheater) has said, "I don't even know how you're still in this... and that's coming from ME". Everyone seems to think I'm a fool for being here. I'm even questioning....

I think my plan B is to give her to my grandparents if I needed to check out for a while. They care for her during the day while I work. They have everything she could possibly need at their house, including breastmilk. If push came to shove, I could ask them and I know they would happily oblige.

Speaking of D and my girls trip, H isn't even watching her that weekend. My family is. I think that was his way of trying to not let me go by saying, "well, I'm only ok with the thought of you going if you get someone to watch the baby. That was supposed to be my guys day" (which it was. He had this guys thing thought out for a while now... I just happened to find the cheapest flight to my best friend on the same weekend). I don't know if he thought I wouldn't be able to do it, but I did. And I'm having the dog boarded. So he is responsibility free that weekend. And he hasn't given me any sh!t over it yet.

I'm hoping my weekend away will be help. I need something. I have seriously considered calling my doc to up my meds. I was hoping that if I gave this a while to blow over I would restabilize. But this has been, what, 3 weeks? And if anything, I'm more insane. So maybe I need to just bite the bullet and do it. And less than a week before this new incident, I was thinking about how best to come off the meds, most likely in the summer.

Guess that's out of the question now.

But yes, I'm pretty sure one more majorly stressful thing and I'm over the edge. I really can't take anymore.


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You're grandma is still lactating... wow... whistle

lol... grin

Just hoping that brought a slight smile to your face. I think you need it.

DIM, you are one of many on this board who are re-thinking their sanity and desire to be or stand for their M right now...

It is OK to question what you want. It is even OK to rationalize wanting out and even leaving the M on purpose.

But just make it because you choose to. Not because of blame of your H. Not because of blame of OW. Not because your friends or family may not forgive your H.

That's the tough decision, but it's the responsible way.

Let me just say, forget about trying to pin him in the "bad guy" group because you think he was trying to control you.

Also, it doesn't matter if he was or was not OK with you going. It would have been up to you to find appropriate care for D0.9 and you did so. Even if you put the offer to him if he could and wanted... so again... it really is neither here nor there whether we was or was not "ok with that thought...

Let me be clear about that. I'm not pointing at him when I said the above... That was very much directed at you. That you need to not worry about whether he was or was not OK with that thought and ALSO VERY IMPORTANT IF NOT MORE SO, that you not judge him because he was simply stating his mind... because it was not relevant... being angry with him for verbalizing a thought is up to you... and it probably cost you more to be angry then him to off handedly state his thought...

I hope that makes sense...

You are owning a lot of responsibility and issues that are not yours to own...

Let go of what your friends and family might or might not think...

Let go of whether or not your H is being a dink...

Let go of that which you cannot control...

Stop owning that crap...

Drop the rope...

Get back to loving you and loving D0.9

Life will get better, again...

And whatever the future may hold... deal with it as it comes... one little bite at a time...

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dear May

Wow, I literally spent 90 minutes posting a lengthy BRILLIANT reply to you but it zapped out b/c I didn't notice my computer was unplugged. Damn...okay, I'm back! Suffice to say it was super smart and life changing and we can only pray this will be half as amazing...

thanks to Kaffe Diem, I got your "SOS". I posted on the other thread you put up and hope you'll check it out b/c the recommendations I made there are so important.

Now I'll quote from this post b/c it's the one you linked me to.


Originally Posted By: dueinMay
You're right, Ken. I am losing control. I'm not about to deny that. I literally feel like I'm on the brink of a major meltdown. Sometimes I feel like I'm in an alternate reality. This week while H has been gone the laundry has piled up, I've done no dishes, but I haven't really needed to do dishes because all I've consumed is Diet Coke, tortillas and Reese's Pieces. I think I washed my hair once. I keep my D safe, but I've rarely interacted with her. Even my staff have commented on how eerily quiet I've been this week.

So, yes, I'm aware of the true issue at hand.


By that^^^ comment I assume you mean you realize you are depressed, and you are going to get help for it, right?

it's not like you don't have the tools in your head. But sometimes the thinkers among us forget the simple things.

Simple things such as The healing power of warm water (a hot bath) the soothing clarity a good night's sleep can bring, the energy of eating right, the way we feel when we think we look good, and just taking care of yourself--

ALL helps you see things more clearly with more hope and you feel better and you ARE better, and that includes being a good, fully present, mom...

It's also like on the airplane--get the oxygen mask on YOU FIRST or no one gets any b/c you'll be passed out. It's not selfish.

Taking care of you IS taking care of your d.

I don't know what I want. I want to feel safe. I want to not question EVERY SINGLE BEHAVIOR.

2 comments and 1 question here...

1) re feeling safe... Feeling safe is something you must learn to give yourself.

My h helps me feel safe when he's holding me in his arms. Those moments are to be treasured and savored. But he might be cheating. I don't think he is but hey, it's ALWAYS possible isn't it?

So, should I feel "unsafe"? Can we ever feel safe, IF it's up to someone else to provide that feeling?


My h is also in the Army Reserves. To our shock, his unit is getting deployed to the Middle East this summer. (Didn't see that coming!)

He'll be gone an indeterminate amount of time and will have his pay cut in half...NICE...think I feel safe now, financially?

(He makes much more in private practice as an MD than as an Army doc) So if I cannot make up all that lost income we may lose our home.

So do I feel "safe"? No. Mad? Yes...Safe and secure? NOT Really but I'm getting there b/c I trust that I'm a strong capable woman and the universe is mostly a good place. What you put out, you get back, usually...


..but I will feel safe ENOUGH! I tell myself that if the only thing this family loses when their dad/h goes off to an armed conflict, is our home, then we are better off than the wounded warriors he cares for,

and thousands of other American families (and coalition ones too), who got no one returning, or had a burned, disfigured, maimed, in chronic pain, husband/son/mother/sister/daughter...

it could be a lot worse. But sure, my job hunting is more active as I need higher pay.

but May, Am i not allowed to feel safe until he returns to me? If something happens to him, is my sense of security forever stolen?

Must I meet another man and only THEN be allowed to feel safe? But thennew man could cheat or die too...

Truly May, safety comes from within us. B/C if it's up to someone else, which it isn't, we''ll never really feel it for long.


They can die on us, they can leave us, they can change. The only people allowed to expect others to make them feel safe, are our children.

2) So you want to stop questioning every single behavior (of his?)? Okay -then discipline yourself and stop it. It's not easy but it's not complicated.

If something is overtly weird and inappropriate or way beyond the pale, YOU WILL KNOW...it will reveal itself at some point.

If something is from the past - it passed....like Ken said.

(Ken, I wrestled with that phrase for a bit...I must be right, it's almost 5 am cool )

I have to ask you something May. I will ask it again, probably. Here it goes...

is there something "new" in your anger that is NOT really new?

Is it that you sense you are not supposed to feel angry anymore (yet you do)

so you are looking for "new" actions or words or lies all of which seem to have taken place a year or more ago

(except the stupid tickets, but he admits it was idiotic and NOT something to throw the towel in for, which you know)

so, are you mad about "new stuff" that isn't new, so that you can justify the reality that you are still angry over past UNRESOLVED matters?



I've even gone so far as to think that the only reason H wanted to move was to get the house out of our names into an apartment which is easier to dump me from.

Um, What? You do want me to tell you when you've gone too far, right? Okay, you went too far. THIS^^^ goes too far, and is illogical and irrational.

First, Other than the paperwork of selling a home, there's just as much work moving from an apartment as there is from a house. (Maybe more labor if there are steps). It's also b ADDING a move

so if the "Secret plan" your h had was to make it easier to "dump" you,

why not sell and then split? Why ADD a move into the process at all?

Also don't revise the history about the sale to rationalize the irrational, b/c then you are gaslighting yourself!

You were "both shocked at how fast it sold. Remember that?? Was he faking his surprise? Let's look at that "Secret plan" you so fear.

If the plan was to sell and leave you, I guess he should have raised the price then, right? Make more money from the house.

Come on May, this is goofy, & you have to toss out that fear to the curb. I'm moving on now... cool
w


He did almost all the laundry for me before he left (put it away too, which is really rare). While I thanked him for it, all I could think was "he just did so much laundry so I won't notice he's packing more than usual. He probably will pack not only work clothes, but a bunch of going out attire as well... or enough to last him longer than his week that he told me and something will 'come up' requiring him to stay longer".

did ANY or even part of this^^^ turn out to be true?

If not, use it as a learning tool so you stop your own gaslighting of YOU.



I am paranoid as f*ck.

Ah! An excellent^^^^ insightful diagnosis...no disagreement here. But I happen to believe the "patient in point" in so brave and reslient that she is educable and will be "cured"...or at least put in remission for as long as happiness is a goal of hers, which it is.


I want to drink and smoke cigarettes (don't ask me why... I've never smoked ANYTHING in my life!). I want to drop off the baby with my parents and drive to my Godparentets house in Colorado and be isolated for a month in the woods.

Wow, since you never smoked "ANYTHING" (where did you go to college? Geez, maybe I should send my younest there) then maybe you simply want to do the things you imagine your h does? They represent in some form, the (rebellious/selfish) freedom he APPEARS to have in your eyes.

Did your dad do any of those things? What do you think iresponsible "FREEDOM" looks like? Where do you think you got the images?



I want OW to drive off a f*cking cliff. She might lose her job in the next two weeks (there have been major layoffs at H's job), but at this point in time, it's still not enough.

I want my sanity back. I want my sleep back. I want my peace of mind back. I want my memory back.

I don't want to deal with this bullsh!t anymore.


3 things...

1) THEN TAKE BACK YOUR SANITY, GET YOUR SLEEP, YOUR PEACE OF MIND & MEMORY, for they are NOT IN SOMEONE ELSE'S HANDS...


2) the OW is not THE issue.

BTW, If she were to drive off a cliff, do you believe all else would be fine in the m? You know it would not. So she's not the issue. And btw,

3) she may be leaving the job soon, so then she's a moot point.

Don't borrow trouble from a source that may soon be gone.



I know exactly where this fear comes from. My father had an affair. My husband comes from a family of psychopathic liars. I am terrified that I will never know the truth, I will always be f*cked over, I will always have to watch my back, and I will never be safe.

3 things...

1) the Truth...ponder this reality. None of us can "KNOW" the truth. You may never know the truth and neither will you h.

Frankly, I don't want my h to know ALL MY TRUTHS' b/c some are just private, most were temporary feelings, or events w/little lasting meaning, or completely ambiguous in meaning and intent.

Truth can be subjective and in this case I don't see how it would help you or your d or your marriage or your h...



My journals from 5 years ago, and more, were "true" at the time I wrote them or i believed them to be. Nothing is written in stone. I disagree with most of what I wrote then. It would be destructive for my h to see what I wrote "to him" but never gave him.

I did think I believed those things, then. Now I mostly don't. How valuable was that "truth" for my h to knnow? Things i wanted then were bandaids that would not be good for my h to know.

2) you fear you will "always be screwed over"...how so?

If you move to the south and quit your job you will lose some money in the short run. (As a couple, that $$ gets more than made up for by his raise).

But you want to get an advanced degree too, which will advance your pay and garner you more salary, ultimately

so in the long run it will benefit you financially in a few short years...and YOU will get to be a SAHM...

Legally the longer you are m, the more your h risks b/c he'll have to pay more in alimony or spousal e, since the marriage will be a longer one and since his income will increase while yours' decreases, he'd be on the hook for more...(check out MS divorce law in case there's an arcane law that hurts you though, to "feel safe")

Like I said, I think in the long run he risks more by the move to the south.


3) feeling safe...(see above). You make yourself feel safe by knowing you are a strong capable loving woman with a child to provide safety for and w/the means to provide it for yourself and her.



Mix in the very real fact that H has a top secret job and I literally cannot know a lot of what happens, and I'm kind of screwed. Unless I just put on a happy face, "let go and let God" or whatever you want to call it, and dial up my antidepressants.

What? Whoah....how are you "screwed" by not knowing all the details of his work? I have a few family members in lines of work I think are similar. My SIL once said she minded having to "lie to new friends" about what they do or why they moved there, but I don't see how it harmed the m, per se.

How does it "Screw" YOU? By not being able to learn all the ins and outs of OW's life at work? Is that it?

Well She'll be gone soon and you are moving anyhow. Frankly, the less you show up at work sounding the way you do now, the better for all.

Don't add to the pressure your h feels not being able to share the pressures of his job w/ you

or the ethical challenges or the way the media spins things and his "team" cannot respond b/c a) they don't exist or b) they don't exactly have a PR department...b/c you feel left out and "screwed". Isn't he the one who could feel that way?

So sure, as a supportive spouse it'd be nice to share all. But many couples face this issue of "separateness" in and out of the military.

I had to hide cases from my h when they involved his colleagues or mentors, whom I represented in investigations or litigation.

Granted, It's not national security but it hindered our social life and was a "barrier" of sorts.

So we talked about things that most couples would love to discuss, things NOT work related....but you being "screwed" by it? Nope I don't get that. Sorry.

I knew my anger would be the thing that would be hard to deal with. Not because I experience residual anger over lots of things,


why NOT this residual anger over lots of things? Why do you gloss over that?



but because my best friend (who was in a relationship for a long time with a chronic cheater) warned me.


No, not "BECAUSE" you bf warned" you? But b/c you have a lot of anger about unresolved issues and some of those are from our family of origin.

How did your mother handle your father's cheating? Did she ever let it go? Did she ever forgive him? Would it be fair to say you did not see models of forgivness growing up?


She said, "you think that if they just stop the cheating then you can forgive and be happy again. But it's the anger that will get you. You will be so angry."

So what are you going to do about it? You are not doing enough NOW.

And it's exactly why a weekend or 4 day workshop is what you need so you can work through, explore and complete the exploration of an issue AND resolve it, with an action plan to follow up with AND a follow up support group (none of which charge, btw).

That's why I hammer these intensives so much. For people in crisis for whom a 2 hour a week talk, won't due it. Intensives are more "efficient" and I don't sense you have a lot of time.

Weekly sessions even with the greatest IC I ever had, often lead to breakthroughs or tearful insights and breakdowns.... But then I had to leave after an hour!.

So my insights, or my emotional milestones had to be stalled out while I went back to work or picked up the kids or my mom called. It was almost impossible to pick up where I left off, the following week and start all over again. It was so piecemeal and hit or miss.

OTOH, Some people can only handle so much digging and intropsection and so much reality at once. Weekly T is best for them (and I'm not putting thoe folks down.

I still see my T once a month just to check in. But you can bet if another crisis or challenge came up I'd hunt down a workshop for myself and I'd go.


May, are brave and you are in a lot of pain and my gut says you'd dig really deep if you were in a safe place to dig and felt supported and knew that hey, "this is it, I have to fix this stuff in me, asap".

You Want to stop racing around the highway and come to a screeching stop at an overlook and see where YOU WANT TO GO? Then do it.

Live a life of clarity and intent...check out the EE website. You are ripe for growth and change at a deep level. I have high hopes for you.

AutumnLeaves attended EE, like I did. Some other DBers are doing it this month in fact. There's one this month and in July. They are not really year round so like I said, llook it up. Angel61 attended Retrovaille as I have and so you can ask either of them for their opinions. None of it will hurt you at this point.


And that's why I got my own place, despite t fact that he tried to stop me (notice he didn't ASK me to come home, just asked me NOT to get the apt). I knew I was too angry. I thought it was over.

And then I found those f*cking emails/chats. I feel like I'm back at square one. At least this time he wants to stay married, but I feel like I could kill him. The first time this happened, I wanted to kill only myself.



So, you thought the anger was over or the EA? Either way, you did not find out that the EA isn't over. So I have to ask you again, you sure it's not like your bf said, that you are simply still angry about the past you have NOT worked out

and any new "issue" that isn't even "new" triggers this avalanche?

Remember that if he believes you won't get past this ever, or you'll hold it over his head or throw it in his face or attack his face,

he can justify leaving and not man people will hound HIM for doing so.


I have a very heavy month of work ahead, as well as some heavy editing to my thesis. I've thought of putting D to bed like I do every night, and then excusing myself to the library down the street until it closes. It will trap him at the apartment and yet I can be away from him. I don't trust myself to be in the same room with him and not lash out.

if those are the options, then get out of the house and leave and focus on your thesis. What's it on anyhow?



And yes, I specifically used the word trap. I feel like I have to. That's where I'm at.

I'm at a loss of what to do.


well you must do more than you have been b/c it isn't working.

If you could stop nursing (which I wanted to mention might also help you for other reasons but it all up to you) you can up the meds. Actually maybe you can anyhow.

But there is cognitive, experiential work to do to get rid of your father cheating stuff that creeps into your worst fears.

Your h has his own family demons and both of you would be better off learning how to let go of those past memories from your families of origin and learn to treasure & protect the lovely family you have created....

Make an emotional "moat" to keep each other feeling loved and protected and special b/c you are. Don't let that other stuff cross your "moat" and get inside you.

I know at this time I sound crazy, unappreciative, childish, and illogical. But I genuinely thank you all for sticking by my side. You guys, and 4 other people, are the only ones I've told about this recent episode. And I haven't told those other people how much I'm struggling with it (aside from my IC). You are all I've got. Thank you for trying to take care of me. Because at this point, I feel very incapable of taking care of me, much less my M.


You are stronger than you know. And much braver than most.

See if you can give or get some contact info to me or about me from AutumnLeaves or KD if you would like.

PLEASE Forgive any typos or nonsense i've put here, since it's SO LATE now and it's my second tome. cool

((((( ))))


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
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May, 25 has way more to offer on the big picture and good suggestions, but I focused in on one little detail where I thought I could add my input. The thoughts of smoking and drinking are among the things I also want to do, and I've noticed I want to be self-destructive at those times. I quit a smoking habit over 20 years ago and haven't touched a cigarette since, but recently in this painful year I've thought about wanting to smoke. I never drank anything at home before, but now am buying wine once a week and limiting myself to a small amount each night, though sometimes I feel like drinking myself to oblivion. I have other coping mechanisms that I think are mildly self-destructive too.

So when you said that you had those thoughts, with surprise, I thought rather than trying to get freedom that H has or rebel, you might just be wanting to do something destructive or bad to yourself.

I'm so worried for you and I hope that you seek out more help than you're getting. Medication for you may be more important than nursing for your baby right now. 25 is absolutely right that taking care of yourself IS taking care of her. Do the simple things that help, that 25 said. Do things to comfort yourself and get help with the anger.


Adinva 51, S20, S18
M24 total
6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out
9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50
5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend
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Happiness is a warm puppy.
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