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#2229924 - 03/12/12 04:47 PM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: oldtimer]
oldtimer Offline
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Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 4474
Starsky -- we seem to be cross-posting...
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#2229925 - 03/12/12 04:48 PM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: oldtimer]
Starsky309 Online   content
Member

Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 4432
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: oldtimer


But, it isn't marital rape unless it was not CV's choice to put up with it. I can easily see how it would FEEL that way though (and perhaps CV's H did not stop when asked to stop in which case I agree it would in fact amount to sexual assault.)



Quote:
I told him how I felt, asked him to stop, he continued.
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At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)

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#2229927 - 03/12/12 04:52 PM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: oldtimer]
Crazyville Online   content
Member

Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 1047
Quote:
"H, I'd like to try sharing a bed again, but we need to do it in a way that works for both of us. For me, that requires being able to get a good nights sleep. I can't sleep well when you don't wear a CPAP, so that's a dealbreaker for me."

Then, when he doesn't wear the CPAP, state clearly and directly that that doesn't work for you and sleep elsewhere.

"H, I'm open to renewing our sexual intimacy. In the past, I've moved away from it because sometimes it did not feel good or right to me. If I start feeling that way again, I can own the responsibility to express that clearly and directly. My boundary is that we immediately stop whatever it is that isn't working for me, stop is a loving way without retribution or condemnation. I want to find intimacy that works for us both."

Then, stop sexual intimacy when he does NOT respect you after you were very direct and clear in your communication (and you were VERY clear with him.)

I've done this exact thing, probably 20 times already. I've spent significantly more time in the last 5 years in the guest bedroom than in the marriage bed. Our sexual frequency is about 4 times a year, usually all in a two-week period, because I keep removing myself. It's pretty hard to be unclear about the cpap. "I need you to wear it. Period." "I will, I promise!"

That is the point I was at when I started posting -- in the other bedroom, refusing to have sex, refusing to go to dinner with him, etc. etc. Those were my boundaries. Obviously, that doesn't make for a happy, healthy M. The advice in DB and to my posts was to reengage, give him another chance "to shine."

Now what?

Quote:
YOU did something wonderful this week when you gave H space to shine. Who CARES whether he changed from that.

YOU DID.

Don't let HIS further actions that demonstrated a lack of respect for you take away YOUR gains.
Who cares? I don't need to do this to feel good about myself. I've done it so many times, there isn't even a sense of accomplishment about it. So if I'm not doing it to get results, and I'm not doing it to feel good about myself, WHY am I doing it? What is the purpose then?
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Me:49 WAW H:59
T:19.5 M:19
S:13

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#2229929 - 03/12/12 05:00 PM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: Crazyville]
Crazyville Online   content
Member

Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 1047
Quote:
Yes, if she told him to stop, I agree. If she said that she wasn't into it and didn't think she'd like it, then he's a creepy inconsiderate lover. But if she did not consent to it, it is rape. No doubt. I didn't get the impression that was the case, but it could have been.
Just to kill this debate, we'll go with extremely inconsiderate and selfish lover. With him, no news there. I don't feel raped, simply deeply devalued. Also, no news there.
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Me:49 WAW H:59
T:19.5 M:19
S:13

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#2229943 - 03/12/12 05:30 PM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: Crazyville]
2thepoint Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1692
Quote:
That is the point I was at when I started posting -- in the other bedroom, refusing to have sex, refusing to go to dinner with him, etc. etc. Those were my boundaries. Obviously, that doesn't make for a happy, healthy M. The advice in DB and to my posts was to reengage, give him another chance "to shine."

Now what?


CV, I see how frustrated you are and I honestly can't blame you for feeling the way you do. What sane person wouldn't feel the same way, all things considered? What I would offer is that the things you have been doing to reengage appear to be noticed by your H as you have stated in previous posts.

The thing I think you should probably consider is that the things you are doing need to continue for your actions to take root and be believed to be long term by your H. This may or may not result in changes in your H but only time will tell. If your H sees and believes your loving actions to be permanent, he may be more inclined to listen to you about what you need out of your R with him.

I know based upon your posts that you don't think he is capable, and you may very well be right. I'd just try to stick to those activities that are getting a reaction from your H for a longer period of time before throwing in the towel.

Think of it like a drop in a gallon bucket. A single drop of water doesn't seem like much, but given sufficient time, the bucket eventually fills. Can you keep filling the bucket?

BTW when are you going to EE?
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Me48 W50 S15 S11
M20 T23
Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11

It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.

Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife

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#2229952 - 03/12/12 06:07 PM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: 2thepoint]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
CV, for five years I "settled" in my M. Beyond that, I focused (else)where I felt valued or that was somehow bringing value to my kid's family of origin (ie. the nuclear unit).

THAT... was where I failed my M.

From an extreme perspective, I did not abuse my children, I did not cheat, I did not conduct myself immorally or unethically, I did not use drugs or abuse alcohol.

I was an "average". nice guy who was married and had a couple kids in an average home and I was a stay at home parent who consulted from time to time to help with financials.

Like I said... I "failed" because I settled. I disconnected from my W because at the time, I was fed up with not feeling appreciated by my W. Further, I felt that I was being emotionally beat up (abused) and disrespected in many ways. I did not have any time limit as to leaving the M. In fact, I didn't really consider leaving the M in the future. I made a choice and I was prepared to stick with it, "until death do us part."

Why am I saying this (again)?

Because we all have our deal breakers. Mine was, when my W transferred essentially ALL (it FELT that way to me) of her emotional connection FROM me, TO others. Part of this included EXCLUDING me from participating in "family" outings (her and the kids, but NOT me) and really... the part where I found her in bed with another man... no matter WHAT happened... really... I really don't give a s4it what happened... that was just "another" thing... that was what I specifically pointed to as my "reason" for leaving.

Anyone who knows me and the members of this board know me well enough to know... that I am 100% pro M and believe that unless someone has DONE EVERYTHING, separation or D IS NOT AN OPTION.

But, having read the above and getting more insight, I do understand if you are done with your H and your M.

At this point in time... for me... D is not just an option... it might be my healthy choice. I don't HAVE to... for all intents and purposes, I am only M on paper. There is simply no indicators to suggest that my W and I could find that balance. To be able to actually HAVE a healthy, loving M. I should stop kidding myself (and ultimately my kids) into staying M... "just in case my W changes her mind".

So I will only say this and I am not suggesting you do this. But I will say that to be fair to yourself and your S... do not stay M because you want your S to be in a family unit until he graduates.

You can easily provide him with appropriate parental guidance separated or divorced and even possibly find someone to be involved with, whereby you can demonstrate to your S what a healthy, loving, respectful R or M can look like.

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#2229996 - 03/12/12 09:48 PM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: ~ kd ~]
Truegritter Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 2686
Originally Posted By: Cville
With him, no news there. I don't feel raped, simply deeply devalued. Also, no news there.


And CV is still allowing it. No news there either.

CV I am not trying to pile on here.

It sounds to me that the martyr role feels very comfortable for you.

I think what my friends are trying to say to you is that nothing will be NEW unless you decide to make different choices about how you will allow yourself to be treated.

I see the victim stance from you.

The question is why? Why are you comfortable playing that role? Your H only knows you as THAT woman.

How will he learn differently?

How can you have a different life expereince than what you have endured so far?

Do you respect the woman you see in the mirror? It is not up to your H to value you? He either will or he won't.

It is up to you to value yourself and not let it fall into the hands of your inconsiderate spouse.

You ARE responsible for how you allow him to treat you.

You are only a victim once. After that you are a volunteer.

BOUNDARIES.

Will protect you and teach him what you allow. The most of extreme consequence of breaking them might be he no longer gets the privilege to be in YOUR life.
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My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am

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#2230046 - 03/12/12 11:36 PM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: Truegritter]
Crazyville Online   content
Member

Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 1047
No, I'm not interested in being the victim. I'm trying to figure out how to make my M work. I'm getting some mixed message here -- some say keep trying, keep giving him an opportunity to shine, forgive and get over the past and reengage, then you're saying to stop doing all those things because it means I don't have boundaries. It can't be both.
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Me:49 WAW H:59
T:19.5 M:19
S:13

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#2230094 - 03/13/12 04:57 AM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: Crazyville]
Truegritter Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 2686
Originally Posted By: CV
some say keep trying, keep giving him an opportunity to shine, forgive and get over the past and reengage.


...at any cost?

Get over the past yes. That is healthy to look at it recognize YOUR mistakes forgive HIM for his...

Reengage?

In the same old marriage?

I don't think anyone is giving you that advice.

Originally Posted By: CV
It can't be both.


Certainly not in your old M becuase that is what you have lived with and he has come to expect.

You walked away and then found your way here? Why?

How about giving yourself an opportunity to shine?

How about we focus on what CV might look like without her H. I don't mean without him like your M is done.

I mean let's stop watching H. Let's start watching the woman in the mirror.

My questions for you again:

How can you have a different life expereince than what you have endured so far?

Do you respect the woman you see in the mirror?
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My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am

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#2230134 - 03/13/12 09:37 AM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: Truegritter]
Crazyville Online   content
Member

Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 1047
I'm not agreeing to engage in the "same old marriage." OT made suggestions for communicating my boundaries, which I have done repeatedly, to which H has listened and acknowledged and promised to respect -- each and every time before I reengaged. Because of this, reengaging has become few and far between, with less investment on my part each time. On MY part, nothing is the same.

I absolutely respect the person in the mirror. There is no question. I could list a 100 reasons why. If I didn't respect myself, I suspect these things wouldn't even bother me, but they do because I know I deserve better.

I'm doing several things to work on myself and I will continue to do so. I am and always have. I believe that should be a lifelong activity for each of us.

I came here because the DB board is support for M reconciliation.
_________________________
Me:49 WAW H:59
T:19.5 M:19
S:13

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