Together Since We Were 15...Now Piecing

[rickb89]

Wow ^^^^ great advice huh?

Jenna - you used to be bummed that no one was responding to your posts!

[Walking]

Great post Greenblue.

Jenna - I guess I was trying to make a similar point. People have affairs because they are not satisfied/getting their needs met/etc in their primary relationship. A young man who's getting hauled over the coals by his bossy wife for having a drink with his mates after work, regardless of if his mates are men or women, is going to feel more and more manipulated and unhappy in his relationship with you - and BAZOOMBA - back at the beginning again, with your H falling 4 any happy, fun girl he comes across who will make him feel good about himself. Is that a good way for him to deal with things. No, but you got to admit you guys have a pattern.

If you continue to be jealous, demanding, making him accountable for even his thoughts ... you are going to have a long, sad, stressful marriage.

I hear the alternative view and I understand where you and the other posters are coming from. But Jenna, it doesn't matter where he works, that particular girl is not your problem, the strength, fun, joy and harmony that are missing from your relationship at the moment are the problem.

Forget the OW and work on you. Bring fun and joy and passion back into your life and through you into your marriage.

I guess the other point I'd like to make is that it can be very easy after one partner has done, and admitted to, something that directly threatens the marriage. Affairs/EAs etc are a good example. He did something wrong and he should be punished. But, with the exception of the those psychopath bad-boys we've all come accross from time to time, men just don't develop feelings for other women when things are great at home.

Yeah - he screwed up - but you both contributed to the state of the marriage that led to his indiscretion. Reflect on your part of the cracks and work on them.

And I'll say one more time, GAL girl. Spend time with your girlfriends, take some time out for your hobbies. Become a strong, happy, focussed role model for your little ones.

Courage!

[Jenna333]

The therapist was surprised by my anger and interrupting at the last session. I hadn't displayed any of that in the previous 3 sessions. Something snapped in me last weekend after he screwed up 2 nights in a row and told me he didn't respect me. That angry person was the old me, not who I am now. I don't talk down to him, I don't control him. Going out drinking all the time is NOT ok. He had quite a drinking problem for many years.

I'm reigning my old habits back in. They're not here to stay. I'm not saying I'm doing everything right, but I think I started reverting back to my old ways after he continually disrespected me and treated me how he used to treat me. I started to feel completely fed up and done.

We hardly saw each other today, but we're doing ok. He has jealousy/insecurity issues as well. I only saw him for 15mins today (not counting this morning before I left). When I got home, he was acting withdrawn. He finally told me that he was worried if be meeting a bunch of attractive doctors at the medical co freebie, but he wasn't going to say anything because he knows how ridiculous that is.

It's exhausting to think about, but we'll get through this. We need to trust each other. I think deep down we both believe that the other wouldn't cheat. We just need to remember that when we falter in our thinking.

[Jenna333]

Co freebie? LOL! Conference!

[Walking]

He had quite a drinking problem for many years.

Jenna .... he had a drinking problem, he had feeling for a woman at work, he disrespects you .... why did you marry this man again?

[Jenna333]

We're not married. We've been together 9 years and we are not married. That was another sore spot for me.

We have both made a ton of mistakes. We're young and had kids really young. We're both trying to believe in ourselves and each other now.

[adinva]

Hi Jenna. You two are making a lot of progress. You've had good advice to write down exactly what you need - what does respecting you look like, etc. The more concrete the better, not to set a rulebook but to have a conversation where J gets to participate with his own thoughts about how he understands your needs, what his needs are, and what you both can do to meet them.

There are a lot of instances in your posts where he does something partly good and you slam him for not doing it all the way. No wonder he says he feels he's not good enough for you. No wonder he withdraws and punishes you back with the "numb" speech. No wonder he tried to avoid your ire by evading the truth before he came out with it - he still got slammed. He seems really intimidated by your anger - meaning it's not working for you the way you're expressing it.

By being really clear and specific you can avoid some of the miscommunication you're having. When you say respect you mean he asks permission on a case by case basis when he wants to stay out after work and frequently calls in. That's not a typical definition of respect. What you really need in that case, is the security of having a husband and father to your children who does not spend all or most of his free time partying or sleeping it off - meaning one day a week out late but not two, meaning 2am but not 4am, meaning whatever you really do mean. Asking permission is kind of unusual I think for a married couple. More like, hey hon I'm going to stay out till 4 am tonight and probably need to sleep it off till 2pm (response: I have things to do at 10am so I need to get a good night's sleep and have you on with the kids then, so could you make it 2am and be quiet when you come in?). I'm just trying out some ideas so you can see the difference between asking for what you need and asking for a vague thing - whose definition you can change anytime you think he's not measuring up in some area - like "respect."

You both love each other a lot it seems. If you can work through and be able to really talk and understand each other you can get to a more mature love.

[Jenna333]

Thanks, adinva. We honestly have had no idea how to have a mature relationship. We certainly didn't have any positive ones modeled for us growing up. It feels like we're building this from scratch now. We didn't have a mature, positive relationship to start with. I was 15 and he was 16! I believe that is why we've made so many mistakes. Our C told us that most people do a lot of their screwing up in relationships in their 20s, and by the time they find the person that they marry, they have a much clearer understanding of what works and what doesn't. We grew up together. We didn't have the freedom that many others do. I had our first at 17 and our second at 20.

With regard to asking permission and having respect, it's definitely something that we're tinkering with. I do agree that he shouldn't have to ask permission, but also if he just tells me what he's doing, and I have an issue with it, he makes me feel like I'm controlling him and killing his fun. I don't think it's ok for him to stay out until 4am. After last weekend, he now understands why and agrees. When it comes to my slamming him when he doesn't go all the way with what I expected, you're right. I shouldn't do that. I just fear that if I only focus on the good, he'll think going halfway with the truth and doing what's right is working for us and acceptable, and that isn't ok in the long run. I know I struggle with control issues. I'm working hard on myself. It's tough being with someone who likes to go out to bars all the time. I'm envious of those who say their husbands don't like to go out much, but they don't have a problem with it. They have no idea.

We had a really nice time together last night. I of course didn't get home until 11 from school, and he got home soon after from work. He cooked us burgers and we watched a show together and cuddled He really appreciated that I let him express himself yesterday regarding his fear of me meeting a doctor and flirting yesterday. He knew it was ridiculous, but he expressed that he does have insecurity issues with me and that the irrational thoughts are hard to quell at times. I completely understand. Instead of telling him how silly that was and to stop doing that, I held him and told him that he has nothing to worry about, that I love and want only him. When we hung out last night he kept telling me how much he loves me.

I've noticed that my actions and words play an enormous role in how he behaves. Not just around me, but in general. Just the simple act of telling him that it's ok for him to share his feelings with me, and not getting upset with him at the slightest, really helps him to feel secure. I hope he can start finding security within himself, though. I started finding it within myself during our separation.

[adinva]

Wow J that is so great that you can be a safe place for him to say something, even something you might not like. So you can really know him and he can really know you. I wish I'd had that in my M and hope to get it one day.

Something I was told about negotiating conflict, which is what you're doing when your needs bump up against his, is to try to express what your need is instead of telling him what to do. Rather than trying to cramp his fun, you're looking for a way to balance his fun with your needs and also with his responsibilities as a parent.

If you can respect his need for socializing and drinking and he can work his responsibilities into the schedule maybe he'll feel less controlled and more in control of his values and choices.

[Jenna333]

I see what you mean. Thanks for putting it into perspective