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#2228712 - 03/07/12 08:01 PM Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 [Re: Crimson]
cat04 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/31/09
Posts: 2225
Originally Posted By: 25
In fact, I think he's one of maybe 3 or 4 men I've "met" here, in my 6 years posting, that has truly been confronted with brutally honest feedback

and he's taken it all in and made serious changes within.


25,

I rarely disagree with what you have to say, even if I might say it differently myself...

This though ^^^ leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

Many, many men have come here broken and have grown and made changes that are just as great as Crimson has. Not just 3 or 4, and if that is all you have seen, maybe you need to check out the archives...

I find it insulting to the wonderful men who are here, trying to do something that both of us would have killed to have happen...

fight to save their marriages...

That, in itself, is commendable.

Originally Posted By: 25
I do have a problem with inexperienced posters who are not constructive,
and or- do not base their feedback on DB principles...


No one comes to these boards an expert in DB principals.

It is through posting and receiving feedback that they learn how to apply DB concepts.

Were you an expert poster on your first post? Were you an expert poster when you first posted to another?

This is insulting to the so called "inexperienced posters" that read and learn off of ALL threads, especially ones like this, IMO.

Originally Posted By: 25
So when he's ready, I am confident Crimson will make significant positive contributions.

His thread has already triggered a lot of growth for many who read it.

People witnessing Crimson's journey on these threads, (and his journey is among the bravest I've seen), have learned A LOT and that has tremendous value.


Personally, when I see people really grasping and applying the advice they are receiving, I encourage them to reach out to others as I believe it helps to solidify the growth they are experiencing.

What I have found is that posting to others is a great way to keep the lessons that we have learned and the DB principals fresh in our mind and our hearts.

Isn't that really what we are all here to do?

Crimson, sorry for the hijack...
_________________________

"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox

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#2228735 - 03/07/12 09:23 PM Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 [Re: cat04]
Rick1963 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 2516
Loc: Piney Land
Evening Crimson. Sorry for the havoc I have caused to your thread. But I care about everyone in this board Because I know why they are here. I am not known to be a great communicator. I am very proud of the work you have done so far. You have more contact with your W than most. Yes I have read most of your threads regardless of what some may think. But when I read your posts all I see is you obsessing about you, your W, your child , D work and other stuff.

Others have asked you about GAL but I have never seeing you mention about it. Maybe I am not that sharp as a previous poster sumized. Correct me if I'm wrong butif your W trully leaves you what will you have as support?

I think you need to branch out, reach out to others in need you may learn something new or help someone. This is not all about you.

PS: be happy or be right is a great slogan only if you practice it.
_________________________
M 51
W 50
D 17
Separated 6/22/11 moved out 11/12
Together 26 yrs
Married 16
W Filed for D 7/21/11
Served 9/6/11
D final 8/28/12

“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”

John Wooden






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#2228755 - 03/07/12 11:07 PM Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 [Re: Rick1963]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2088
Crimson,

It must be nice having people argue about whether or not you're TOO good at DB! The great irony here is that while some may be holding you up as a shining example, you're still in a lot of pain. Let's not all forget that. Crimson is hurting. I vote that the argument should be dropped whether or not Crimson is the "best DB'er ever" and get back to focusing on helping and encouraging Crimson! Sheesh.

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014

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#2228762 - 03/07/12 11:26 PM Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 [Re: Accuray]
rickb89 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 1119
Boy Crimson...you must feel like you cant escape controversy! Hey man you got big ones to own your M and personal issues...deal w the bomb....be a single dad...deal with your parents...your W...lawyers....baby embryos....hold down a job....maintain a house alone...sift thru a million DB posts, etc., and all the while never lose your cool or take anything but the high road.

I worry that you will worry and overthink yourself to death....but I know its because you want so much to do the right thing for W and son.

I keep saying that if you can live thru your heart and soul and it comes first you will be genuinely happier and the ebbs and flows wont cause so much stress.

Peace

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#2228766 - 03/07/12 11:44 PM Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 [Re: 25yearsmlc]
Harrier Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 781
Loc: Connecticut
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Originally Posted By: Harrier
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
ps



People witnessing Crimson's journey on these threads, (and his journey is among the bravest I've seen), have learned A LOT and that has tremendous value.




I disagree. Why is he any braver than most of us here? I mean just because he was such an absent father who has "seen the light." I think it's an insult to many of the people here.

I've read all of his thread and frankly I don't see how he is that much different than a lot of guys here, except for his complete lack of being a partner to his wife.

I'm not saying he hasn't shown personal growth or had some valuable insights to himself. But the hyperbole is a little much.

Flame on.


Wow I didn't see that coming. From where Crimson began, to where he is now, has been an amazing journey INWARD, with outward results as well. I'm amazed this bothers anyone.

Are you also saying no one else has learned from his journey?

I know for a fact that several others have said they are looking at his journey as a model for their own paths.

Crimson has changed himself by first looking at all of his own flaws (a feat in itself, & one that many LBSers never do)

and

so far, he really owned those flaws and he sure seems to be changing them.

It has nothing to do with other people, except that I think he has done more changing than most.

If the fact that he needed to change more, lessens him in your eyes, so be it.


I think it's another reason that most people would have looked away from their flaws instead of facing them.

As a follower of 12 step programs, I know how hard it is to take an inventory of ourselves and then to make amends.


But that's what I see Crimson doing. I meant every word I said.
I cannot see how that insults anyone.
.

No no no no.

My question was simple. Why is Crimson braver than most here? I don't think he is. I mean it was as little as 4 days ago that he still wasn't getting some of it.


I mean you don't think many of us take a hard look inward? How many of us did it pre-bomb. Some did. That is harder than reacting to an immediate crisis.

I suggest you & others read what I wrote instead of reading what you think is there.

I am not asking Crimson to defend himself, nor did I say he hasn't grown, nor did I say others can't learn from his journey.

I also never said his "transformation" bothered me. I just disagree with your assessment in relation to others.
_________________________
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.
--Jean Jacques Rousseau.

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#2228807 - 03/08/12 07:35 AM Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 [Re: cat04]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10464
Loc: west coast
Originally Posted By: cat04
Originally Posted By: 25
In fact, I think he's one of maybe 3 or 4 men I've "met" here, in my 6 years posting, that has truly been confronted with brutally honest feedback

and he's taken it all in and made serious changes within.


25,

I rarely disagree with what you have to say, even if I might say it differently myself...

This though ^^^ leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

Many, many men have come here broken and have grown and made changes that are just as great as Crimson has. Not just 3 or 4, and if that is all you have seen, maybe you need to check out the archives...


It is NOT all I've seen, as you probably know. Way back when, men like Was2sad and FaithfulH and FIB, Bworl, Mach, Jack3beans, 2step, Denver, among many others, helped restore my faith in men at a time I sorely needed it.

To them - I shall always feel gratitude b/c they helped me so so much. I stay in touch with most of them today. They are friends.

(Sorry if This next comment may end up being more of an insult to Crimson than a compliment) but the thing is,

I felt that Crimson had farther to go than the men I just mentioned,

and farther to go than most of the ones here...so that's my point.
i.e., if HE can do it...others can too.

HIS PERSONAL JOURNEY has been more impressive to me b/c it has required MORE core changes & outer changes in him, than most I've seen.

It's maybe analogous to a man from a different culture having to change that much more of himself, to get where he needs to go. At first you wonder if it's hopeless but then you see a crazy amount of hard, jarring, inner work...And Crimson's past was a bit like a different culture...

You don't have to agree, but now do you understand my perspective more?


I find it insulting to the wonderful men who are here, trying to do something that both of us would have killed to have happen...

fight to save their marriages...

That, in itself, is commendable.

You know I get that^^^ it is commendable.

I think I've been there for a few of those men. I believe I post to more men than women, but that's a guesstimate. But complimenting one does not take away from others.

And in truth, I felt the need to defend Crimson from what I saw as an insulting post to him, coming at an odd, vulnerable time.

I did not see Crimson getting coddled or having people "tip toe" around him. (Lord knows I didn't "tip toe" w/him)

I was irked that it was said to him, frankly.

Maybe if I understood it, or if I didn't attach negatives to the comment, (or play the legal advocate/rescuer??), I would have worded my answer differently.



Originally Posted By: 25
I do have a problem with inexperienced posters who are not constructive,
and or- do not base their feedback on DB principles...


No one comes to these boards an expert in DB principals.

It is[b] through posting and receiving feedback that they learn how to apply DB concepts
.[/b]

YES it is...(geez)

My point is that there are posters here (some were banned) who sometimes knowingly posted advice that directly contradicted DB principles.

Often they didn't care about that, b/c their egos were paramount... OR they did not even know the DB principles b/c they never read the books after being here for months or years (for real)

OR they wanted to defend their punitive approaches b/c their anger had become stronger than their desire to reconcile.
[color:#CC0000]

and He11 no, I wasn't some "DB expert" when I came here (and don't claim to be now) But I follow the approach as best I can and admit when I don't know the exact approach b/c of a unique situation AND admit when I am proposing alternatives to DB if it did not work...

but when I got here, I sure wanted to follow what the vets and DB coaches told me!
I must have had 15-18 DB sessions with them and THEY HELPED me so much...and yes I learned a bit more in depth how to apply the approach to my situation at least.

I didn't challenge their intelligence or come up with my own "NEW WAY" or invent my own "different" approaches, deny DBing, here on a DB site,

and harp on it to people who were new and raw here, and wanted answers with certainty...and those non DB folks, seemed drawn to posting to them.

I've seen several people not just DO the opposite of DBing (haven't we all?)

but knowingly post here, the opposite of what MWD says...and promoted it as "their/better" way...or as the DB way... That is what bothers me and it is what I thought I said. I am surprised that bugged you.

When i learned this stuff (the hard way, like most of us) I processed it and took it in, and I frickin' dug deep

b/c I had gone to so many MCs (3-5 before DBing) who told h he was "acting single" =h was wrong...

and that I was "right" (which meant I was powerless to effect the outcome since I must have been doing everything right already...???

those MCs had no suggestions FOR ME for what TO DO.

but DBing showed me that I had plenty to work on in myself and that MIGHT help change the m,

or at least make me not revolve around a person i had no control over...and become the woman I am meant to be.

I did the 12 steps and that 4th step of taking a fearless moral inventory (should be called "fear filled" moral inventory b/c it was scary as hell)

& making amends (asking for forgiveness w/o expectation of reciprocity) very much helped too,

but it was among the most humbling difficult things I had to do, ever.

It takes a lot of faith and strength and courage

and if I had 4 drug problems and a drinking problem too,

then I'd say I had overcome "more" -- relative to someone with only one of those issues...

YES Cat, it's a generalized statement, but it has illustrative value.

and that's how I see Crimson (no offense Crimson-)
[/color]

Were you an expert poster on your first post? Were you an expert poster when you first posted to another?

This is insulting to the so called "inexperienced posters" that read and learn off of ALL threads, especially ones like this, IMO.

SIGH....See above^^^ b/c I am not "insulting" Them, I'm insulting the New Guru's who preach an approach that belongs on another site... if anywhere.
BTW
I don't think any of those guru people posted to Crimson, so I'm not insulting someone when I say that.


Originally Posted By: 25
So when he's ready, I am confident Crimson will make significant positive contributions.

His thread has already triggered a lot of growth for many who read it.

People witnessing Crimson's journey on these threads, (and his journey is among the bravest I've seen), have learned A LOT and that has tremendous value.


Personally, when I see people really grasping and applying the advice they are receiving, I encourage them to reach out to others as I believe it helps to solidify the growth they are experiencing.

So do I. That is the value of a support group. I counsel a support group and go to one and of course it's going to teach you more than merely going one on one ( 1 on 1 has its' place though)...groups can "condense" lessons, if you KWIM.



What I have found is that posting to others is a great way to keep the lessons that we have learned and the DB principals fresh in our mind and our hearts.

Isn't that really what we are all here to do?


Yes it is. AND

I feel as if that^^^ is what I said.

Reading other's stories and journeys has great value. I learned chunks of stuff from others

and avoided a few huge mistakes b/c others had "been there, done that."

Crimson, sorry for the hijack...







_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

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#2228808 - 03/08/12 07:37 AM Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 [Re: 25yearsmlc]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10464
Loc: west coast
Harrier

I have posted at length on your past threads, per your request.
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

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#2228810 - 03/08/12 07:38 AM Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 [Re: 25yearsmlc]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10464
Loc: west coast
geez Crimson,

sorry for the hijack which may trigger you having to get another thread...

sorry if this was painful for you as well.

Not meant to be.

((( )))
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

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#2228831 - 03/08/12 09:24 AM Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 [Re: 25yearsmlc]
Crimson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/16/11
Posts: 1286
Meh - I don't mind. It's all for the greater good and in the spirit of freely exchanged ideas and opinions. So no harm here at all. I mean, really - most of us have much larger isht than this going on in our lives - a little back and forth on web forum is nothing. smile

So, I'll just move back to my thread.....

I my level of anxiety bumped up a little bit.....ok, a lot.....when w said that MC was getting to be too much for her and she hopes is tapers off soon. In the context of her mini-breakdown it almost appears as if that was at least a part of it. Makes me wonder if that is her way of telling me that she doesn't want to work on things anymore or if she would rather she and I take what we have gotten so far and try to move forward with it on our own without MC. I am almost angry at myself for investing in hope and optimism at times likes this. I guess I just don't know what she meant by "taper off". I mean hell, I would figure the legal process would be more stressful than MC.....but that's just me.

If she wants to bail out of MC without working on things I would guess that means that D is just weeks away. Granted, I know I am skipping to the worst conclusion - I have learned that being afraid is pretty d@am easy - optimism is the challenge.

Either way, I can feel myself being distracted by this and my stomach is a bit uneasy. Just feel like a shoe is about to drop.....granted, I could be wrong and simply bracing for the worst. If she decides to cancel our appointment with the doctor on Monday (fert.) I will know for sure something has gone the other way.

I have my son this weekend, so I will keep myself busy with him.

Crimson

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#2228834 - 03/08/12 09:44 AM Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 [Re: Crimson]
ces67 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 1021
And now back to our regularly scheduled programing....

C- A few thoughts below....

Originally Posted By: Crimson
In the context of her mini-breakdown it almost appears as if that was at least a part of it. Makes me wonder if that is her way of telling me that she doesn't want to work on things anymore or if she would rather she and I take what we have gotten so far and try to move forward with it on our own without MC.

Looks like you're mind-reading here. Either let it go or ask for clarification. Recognize what you're doing and do a 180 before your mind keeps you walking down anxiety road.

I am almost angry at myself for investing in hope and optimism at times likes this. I guess I just don't know what she meant by "taper off". I mean hell, I would figure the legal process would be more stressful than MC.....but that's just me.

This is expectations your placing on how YOU want things to go - Let it go of these expectations. Progress IS being made but its not linear it will take twists & turns.

If she wants to bail out of MC without working on things I would guess that means that D is just weeks away. Granted, I know I am skipping to the worst conclusion - I have learned that being afraid is pretty d@am easy - optimism is the challenge.

Yes it is but its a challenge worth facing...

Either way, I can feel myself being distracted by this and my stomach is a bit uneasy. Just feel like a shoe is about to drop.....granted, I could be wrong and simply bracing for the worst. If she decides to cancel our appointment with the doctor on Monday (fert.) I will know for sure something has gone the other way.

yes, something goes in the direction you don't expect. But you don't know if it will continue that way...


I have my son this weekend, so I will keep myself busy with him.

Crimson


Step back and and take a breath. Maybe your W just needs the same. She's still dealing with all her mixed emotions as well and that is some tough stuff, especially if she's not happy with how she's acting or responding to life. I'm guessing that conflict comes with self-disappointment and shame. That is really hard to overcome and it takes time too.

Its not the outcome you want but keep believing that no matter what happens, you will be OK.
_________________________
Me:45, W:44
S:15, D:12
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
2 attempts at MC-stopped 09/13
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms

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