you are right labug - about a month ago i was doing quite well, but the events of the last 3 weeks just put me in a state of confusion and i'm trying to get grounded again.
i'm so confused about what is the best thing to do - when i get overwhelmed, my short term memory issues kick in, and now i can't even remember what i was doing a month ago which made things seem as if they were getting better between us - i keep trying to remember and i can't - maybe i should start journaling again, so if i can't remember, i can look it up.
i will keep trying to move forward thanks zig
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
Be the person you want to be whether of not H is there. Act as if he will not be there.
act AS IF he will not be there
that is the crux of the matter isn't it? i DO do that in everyday life - but not in my mind - where it is the most important. thank you again -
all the changes i made - i am sure they just came from a place within myself which realized that i simply couldn't be the way i was before, and i know that i didn't do them for him.
but this final change - that i am struggling so much with - of just letting go - it's like the whole of me is screaming no , no, even though i realize that letting go is my only chance of making things better for myself AND possibly getting him to reconsider
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
just had a conversation with H that i have been dreading and circling in my mind for 2 days.
it went better than i thought - i stayed cheerful and casual, and managed to be the first to get off the phone.
he is leaving day after tomorrow, and i am trying to do it so that i don't see him and have minimal contact, but not give him the impression that i'm doing that.
i knew that he would want to come over to the house tomorrow to drop son's stuff off, so i casually told him that i was busy and probably wouldn't be here but to go ahead and come on in and put his food in the fridge.
i should be home working - i work from the house - but am going to make a point to leave, even if i just have to drive around the block while he's here. heck he's going to see ow tomorrow for 5 days before he leaves on his work trip!!
MIL says that it would be great if he didn't see me before he left - would drive him crazy
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
he called to tell me that he made the appointment for april 10th with the "shrink" he is very disdainful about therapists and looks down on me for needing one. he is only going , i think because i forced the issue - the therapist specializes in children, and we are going to go to learn how to co parent in this situation.
i told him that if he didn't make the appointment and show that he was willing to go, then i was going to do it on my own and he couldn't question my decisions.
i'm not sure what his motives are in agreeing - and i suppose it doesn't really matter - it will remain to be seen how he actually acts and what he says in there that will let me know .
until now he keeps saying that my own fears are what are causing me to think that our son may possibly be affected by this sitch. i've firmly told him to stop doing that several times - i know he says that because he is not willing to face the consequences of what he is doing.
his own experience when he was young and his father moved out, are influencing his attitude now. he KNOWS how he felt then - he was so upset that for the whole time his father moved out he absolutely refused to go to his father's apartment and barely spoke to him.
when he moved out from our house - those fears came up big time, and when it was time to tell our son and for our son to go there the first time, he fell apart, and i had to help them through it. i did it for our son - because H was such a mess.
after that he simply shut down and refuses to acknowledge that this could be affecting our child.
S10 emotionally regressed after the separation, stopped calling us mom and dad and only by our first names. when he comes home from his week at his dad's, he wants me to hold him in my arms like i did when he was three - 6 mos later he still needs it - several times a day and this week, the frequency has increased, because his dad is going to be gone and he knows something is up and because just like me he is recovering from the events of 2 weeks ago when H came back and stayed here while we were all sick, and everything seemed so okay.
going to the therapist for me is about finding out how tolook for signs that S10 is doing the best he could be - how to get him to open up about his feelings - he absolutely refuses to acknowledge the situation - even an indirect reference to our living in 2 houses will upset him so much that he crashes and it takes him a long while to come out of it.
after 6 mos, the child is still refusing to take so much as one toy to his dad's house, still won't have a playdate there, and doesn't want his friends to know dad lives in another house (only one friend knows and that's because we car pool with them and he has to get picked up there!) and that friend entered H's house for the first time yesterday.
and you're telling me the kid is okay?
my in-laws are SO concerned, that they are going to see a therapist to find out what is the best way to support and help our son.
so on this issue i became adamant last week and simply wouldn't give in until he made the appointment. i think the tipping scale for him was when S10 said last friday that he wouldn't go stay a couple of extra nights at dad's house even if he was leaving on a trip for a month. H was really hurt i think.
on the other hand S changed his mind and is doing that this week, but doesn't seem to be so happy.
i'm learning to be "slightly negligent" and not become obsessed with how this will affect our child - it is part of the full acceptance thing - accept that one doesn't have a choice about how much time one can spend with our child, that one is forced to accept the separation, not only from the spouse but also from the child - accept that one's child is hurting bad and one can only hug and cuddle and offer nothing but love - no reassurances no solution. accept that even though the child is standing there at your front door saying no, i don't want to go, put a smile on my face and force him to put on his jacket and shoes and make him leave, pretending that you are really busy and are going out and they need to get going
alot of accepts - it's okay
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
Z - I'm sorry about how much your son has been affected by all of this. It is one thing for us to hurt, but to see our children in pain is so heartbreaking.
You are doing the right thing about going to the C. Hopefully, your H will be able to see how much his selfish actions are affecting your S.
Keep being there for your S and try to make good memories together at home. Try to find things that make him laugh. You are doing all you can for your S. As much as it hurts to watch him suffer, it is your H's responsibility for the relationship between them. Your H needs to hear about the affects of separation or divorce on children. And because it will be coming from the C and not you, he "may" listen.
i realized a while ago that the responsibility for their relationship lies with H and our son. i read "the dance of anger" in the beginning of this separation and through what i learned from that wonderful book, i realized that i had "taken on" the responsibility of their relationship - probably something i learned from the way my mother did the same.
so i stepped back and have consistently and gently pointed out to him that certain things are between them. right from the first day, i did a 180 and never questioned what he did with S and how and where, and have consistently done that. i think it has got through to him that i won't interfere and that he has to figure those things out on his own.
i hope too that the C will be able to point out the effects of this - the real damage in a gentle non-confrontational way to him so that his mind can think about it without feeling threatened or pressured. i know that he knows deep down what it means, and just last week he admitted that just like me he believes it would be better for S if we stay and work it out together but he simply can't do it right now
he is fixated on several ideas - one of them is that we fought so much that it was really bad for S and soS is better off because since we split, we get along much much better - so why would we want to risk getting back together and fall back into the old ways.
S and i are going to have a good time - i'm going to teach him to bake - one of my fortes, and just focus on myself and him and laughing ALOT and doing fund stuff for this month.
thanks zig
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
sounds like you are doing the best you can. And I totally agree w/ getting S counselling since he's showing signs that he's having difficulty coping.
It's good that H has agreed to go. The difficult part now will be stepping back and not pushing the matter furthur. Whether H sees the light or not, it's not up to you to decide or "teach" him that lesson. He will have to come to realize these things on his own in order for them to have any true value.
It must be so hard to have S cry when he doesn't want to go to H's. And focusing on how much you love him is a great thing.
You do your work. Let H do his. Do you and your H live in the same area? Just wondering about the custody arrangements.
Hang in there.
Me:38.. H:33. Two beautiful kids S:6 D:3 M:8.. together for 11. Bomb dropped:10/17/11 Separated:11/07/11
hi barely - thanks for your input and especially the hugs - or at least i'm assuming that those curved marks on either side of zig are hugs:)
just clarifying - we aren't taking S to counseling -he and i are going to talk to a therapist who specializes in kids. and also to learn how to co-parent in this situation.
one of our biggest challenges during our marriage is that we never could get through to the end of a conversation about anything to do with S - to put it in a nut shell, he did his thing and i did mine -
actually what really happened was that whenever i would ask him how we should do something for eg., potty train, discipline etc, he would just stick with "i don't know" wouldn't agree to any of my suggestions or consider them, but just resist whatever i was saying. then i would give up, frustrated as hell. later it would come down to it and the situation w/ S would demand a decision and i would go ahead and do whatever i could - usually advice from parenting books.
then he would turn around and say - see you always control everything, so i'm not going to participate. i realize now during this separation that it was a very passive aggressive way for him to not participate AND to then put the blame on me by saying i was controlling.
over these months during our separation, i have managed to point these things out to him and i think the message has got through on some level, because i have seen him make the effort - first his initial reaction is to be aggressive and start blaming me, but when i have stayed patient and pointed out to him that that's not the point , how i am, but the real issue is something about our child, in the last month or so i've noticed that several times when the conversation had spiralled down to the old way and i set a boundary, he actually made the effort to talk through it until we reached some resolution that actually made us both feel good.
the few times that has happened i've made it a point to let him know how much i appreciate the effort and really let him know that i was listening to his opinion and wanted it very badly to begin with. i hated making all the decisions before about our S
he deliberately chose a house that is only 8 blocks from us - so it's very close and we have it set up that S is there for one week and here for one week at a time. when S is at H's house,i still pick him up from school once or twice a week so that i can have some time with him, and if H has work stuff in the evenings i've asked that i can get S before he leaves him at a friends. H teaches at a univ. so he often has seminars and meetings late into the evening
we have been very generous with sharing S - we raised him with attachment parenting methods and both feel terribly the loss of less time with him. H is so conscious of that - how much harder this is for me without S, that i will say he bends over backwards to let me have him here.
in spite of what the situation is and what he is doing - he is one hell of a father - and even though he has reneged on some of his parenting role through the years, i know that he is devoted to S. On the other hand because of this MLC behavior, he simply isn't able to SEE what this is doing to S - though i suspect he is beginning to - 4 mos. ago the mere hint of a mention that S might be affected would provoke 3 days of yelling and screaming and blaming - now he actually discusses it calmly with me and has even admitted that he doesn't know what to do
from the beginning of this separation one of my main thoughts was that if we could work towards being in a really good place with being able to communicate about S, it would make a massive difference to how he sees our situation
unfortunately - there are commitment phobe problems at work here too - he wants everything in his life to be separated - completely - no one at work should know he's left me, only certain friends can know, not others - he's said i want my life with ow to be completely separate from my life with you and S (wonder how long till she sees the problem in that - easy now because she's in another state to hide the real issues)
so it goes on and on - i wish i had the ability to condense this situation like everyone else does - i so envy people who can say so much in a small paragraph
sorry my response is so long and thank you for you for your advice
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
actually what really happened was that whenever i would ask him how we should do something for eg., potty train, discipline etc, he would just stick with "i don't know" wouldn't agree to any of my suggestions or consider them, but just resist whatever i was saying. then i would give up, frustrated as hell. later it would come down to it and the situation w/ S would demand a decision and i would go ahead and do whatever i could - usually advice from parenting books.
then he would turn around and say - see you always control everything, so i'm not going to participate. i realize now during this separation that it was a very passive aggressive way for him to not participate AND to then put the blame on me by saying i was controlling.
Boy-howdy does this sound familiar! We've been married for 33 years and I got this speech about about control maybe 5 times and then one day he had enough of the control issue and left.
It's a difficult personality to live with.
Have you considered taking your son to counseling? My sons are both grown and when H left I asked both of them if they wanted to talk to someone(counselor), they both said yes and they did.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
