LRT (also known as Limbo land)

[ces67]

And to clarify, I have no issue getting my S clothes he needs. But he can wait 2 weeks so I don't have to put it on credit cards.... The boy is growing fast. 7th grade and starting to wear my shoes already....

[BklynMom]

Good for you. Woman always like men that stand up to them. It is definitely a turn on.

I thought 2tp edits were spot on. Sometimes after I write letters like that I just try to incorporate some of those thoughts into casual conversation without making a big R talk. Just something to think about

[AlwaysTrying]

Wow. Just finally catching up. There is a lot going on in your head, Ces!

I'm really glad you've been able to set some boundaries and stand up for them. Good for you!

I see the t-shirt as a boundary issue and something you have to do to take care of yourself. It is worth mentioning to your W.

However, I agreed with everything 2TP said. I think you can probably boil it down to two sentences. You would do better not to expect her to explain anything. That sounds like a dangerous path. I think something more along the lines of:

I find you keeping OM's t-shirt in the bathroom offensive. I don't think we need to talk about why. I have limits. I don't want to see it there any more.

That is 4 sentences. I'm not good at brevity. :P

[AlwaysTrying]

Maybe take the shirt out of the bathroom first, so that rather than requiring her to consider whether to take action, she has to go against your wishes to put it back there.

Also, if you are going to set the boundary, you have to be prepared to do something if she crosses it.

I'm not really very good at DBing, so don't take my advice. However, if it were me and she brought the t-shirt back, ignoring my concerns about the EA, I would be more direct with her. I would tell her that I have ample reason (don't be specific) to believe you are having an inappropriate relationship with OM. I am also concerned about the damage this can do to OMs family. If you are going to flout my concerns, I will feel compelled to share them with OMs wife so that she can attempt to get a handle on her marriage. I would then hand her the shirt.

[ces67]

Thanks AT- Little steps forward for me. And that's all I can ultimately impact is myself, right? My head knows this. Its that crazy "heart" part of living that can get me distracted sometimes.

The funny thing is, I truly believe that it will utlimately be the strenght of my "heart" to love unconditionally that will move me forward far better than my cold logic.

Hope you have a great week! Keep up with the cooking! My S13 is starting to take an interest in cooking. He made us friend rice for dinner last night and it was really good. W walked him through the recipe but he did all the work.

[ces67]

What I see, is that you do fairly well for a time with what you want. And then something happens to get you off track. It's like you take three steps forward, and then you turn around to see if she is following you.

You are doing this so that she can "see" that you are different, and in essence, you are showing her that you really aren't different...you just want your way.

Essentially, it is you that is keeping yourself stuck.

You also should take a look at the "tactics" that you are trying....

This should never be about tactics. I can tell you that a WAS can smell fake from three miles away. The things that you look at, and the things you change...HAVE to be for you, and very real to your core.

Please read the links....

Let me know what you think after that..

Mach- I spent some time going through the links you provided. Thanks. Here's where I'm at today.

I don't think a full confrontation about OM is the way to go. The small pieces of hope I've seen have come at my detachment and acting more positive.

I do see my W struggling with something. I can only imagine she is torn between many emotions and probably more than I even understand.

I still struggle with the need for what appear to be healthy boundaries for myself. The picture of the OM and this shirt my W felt the need to hide during the OM's wife's visit are boundary issues in my mind still.

I've taken the high road on this for a while and I can see where I'm "looking back" waiting for her to respond the way I want her to. I do have to stop this behavior of mine. My success is that I'm able to see it better now and can make a change. Its a slow process, but I'm a slow learner.

I forget that although its been 20 months, I've only been DB'ing for a little over 2. Some pieces I've started earlier through other learning but the majority is still fresh.

So any suggestions on splitting about the OM confrontation from the boundary discussion I still feel the need to address?

W leaves this Saturday with the kids for Spring Break. I'll have a week to myself. (which I'm kind of looking forward to). So...

1) From the various posts, its sounds like I need to focus on the boundary topic and set aside any OM confrontation.
2) Any suggestions about how to do this or does 2TP's stripped down of my thoughts cover that pretty well?

Thanks again. I truly hope to get to a mental state where I can be more assistance to others around here soon. Encouragement I can pretty much do. Its the insights & guidance stuff that I'm still feeling pretty unqualified for at the moment.

[ces67]

Key word for the week: detach.....

Had a good GAL activity yesterday afternoon. Took D10 & a friend to a huge park near our home. It has a massive playground and they played for about an hour & a half. Good bonding time with my D10 especially in a fun environment.

Almost didn't go. I told D10 she could call a friend after we got home from church to go with her. She had to call 3 different friends before one could go.

W made a point about planning earlier and calling sooner so people have more notice to plan. OK, good point. Of course she continued to make this point 3 or 4 times in the span of 5 minutes. I ignored it. I'm good at that. Not so sure how my body language works but I'm trying to be more aware of that.

Really trying to pick my battles wisely. Money issues, OM reminders, W taking travel we can't afford.... I know I can't address everything at once so feel stalled not knowing what to do. Also feel like this is an excuse and I need to get around it.

I e-mailed W today the financial analysis that I received from my consultation last week. She rarely responds to me via e-mail so it will be interesting to see if she asks me about it tonight.

So detaching....
Money issues - not sure how to detach here if W is giving me bills to pay that she needs to take responsibility for. That one will need to come up this week. She wrote in 2 bills that she wants paid - one for her make-up with a note that says "pay asap" but she put it in last minute and I don't have the money to pay it. 2nd was a note about her credit card bill. She wil not show me the bill or what she's used it for. not sure if she expects me to pay it or just wrote it in our payment log for reference. I do have to clarify that so there are no assumptions about who is paying what.

OM - Still so confused on this one. My gut says say something about the shirt & picture and move on. But that will ultimately end in OM defensiveness. Not sure it gets me to the goal of reconciliation.

Travel - Almost certain W does not have the money to go on another trip and will result in her putting a lot of the expense on her own CC. Its her own CC so do I just let her max out her own card? I'm thinking "yes" . Having the conversation about the bills above will also remind her that she is responsible for her debt.

just need to do something to get over the anxious feeling of doing nothing.

[2chiquitos]

"W made a point about planning earlier and calling sooner so people have more notice to plan. OK, good point. Of course she continued to make this point 3 or 4 times in the span of 5 minutes. I ignored it. I'm good at that. Not so sure how my body language works but I'm trying to be more aware of that."
My DB side woulda said, "you're right! Good point!"

Good GAL w ur D

[purgatory]

As far as separating the OW and boundary talks, I think 2TP laid out a good game plan. In Essenes, they *are* two different and equally important topics, try just happen to intersect at many points in your sitch. I think the priority one needs to be the boundary talk. If done right, this one will help make you more comfortable in your own home. Of course, it could lead directly into a talk about OM when she accuses you of just not liking him.... You'll need to be prepared to deflect and not get emgaged in her OM defense and stay focused on the singular topic of boundaries.

I have no clue how to approach the $$ talks, but I do think that she needs to be entirely responsible for *her* CC. Somehow, you need to let her know this expectation before she leaves, it would be a shock (and definitely) a fight if you bring it up when she gets home, after she's run it all up assuming that you'll pay it.

You're a great dad and I'm sure D loved her time with you.

[ces67]

It was a very fun day with D10. Thursday I'm taking S13 to a museum exhibit called "The Art of War". Its a bunch of ancient weapons and armor that S will enjoy seeing.

Purg - I agree on the money. didn't want to ignore it only to have the bills not paid on time. When I got home, said the following;

Me: Hey, noticed "friend" needs paid for the make up. We don't have it now but I can cover it next pay.

W: OK, I'll let "friend" know.

M: Also, I noticed you had written in your CC needed paid but I didn't see the statement.

W: Yeah, I've got that. I'll give you the cash for it if you can send the payment in.

Me: Ok, thanks.

And that was it. Very glad that she initiated the fact that she would pay for it. Probably a lot to do with she doesn't want me seeing how much she's put on it.

Still not sure what bringing up the t-shirt & picture will accomplish. May wait until they get back to deal with that one. Also, she's working on our tax return and I don't want to create a sitch where she's holding out on me for the return. I want to take advantage of the opportunity to work together on how we use the return.

I'd rather seek the opportunity to talk and work together than start a fight right before she leaves and will be around OM.