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Have you read No More Mr. Nice Guy or checked out the web site?

I see what you are saying regarding the letter. I have the same thoughts myself. I didnt send the letter I had prepared merely as a tactic. If you are truely detached why not send the letter, sometimes I think we need to do stuff simply for ourselves.

Hang in there. Post the letter your prepare


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M 39
H 35
D5,D4
M 4
T 9
ILYBNILWY 5/18/11
Left 7/11/11
Divorced 12/1/13

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ces67 Offline OP
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Thanks, BM, I just got that book earlier this week and am reading it. I definitely see similarities of how I have acted: serving & providing with unspoken expectations of return, guilt in satisfying my own needs, dishonesty in how I approach situations, the need for "peace" over communication. Makes me wonder why it takes so long in life to see these things for myself.

I have not had any conversation with W and am still unsure but leaning towards "not". But in the spirit of the NMMNG book, I want to do what I think is best and not what I think will please other people. Here's my draft. Input is greatly appreciated....

===========================================

W, I know we haven’t talked about our marriage really since we stopped counseling last fall and like you said, you needed this time to work on yourself.

I just want you to know that I still care about you and if there is a chance we can work on our marriage together, I want to try. I know you don’t feel love for me anymore and it may never happen. Even if it did, it would take a very long time to build up that emotional connection. My choices and actions have hurt you and damaged our marriage. I wish I could take it all back but at this point I can only learn from it and move forward.

I do need to ask you about something we’ve only touched on. I would appreciate knowing what your current feelings are towards OM. Here’s why I’m asking.

When we first moved, you spent a lot of time looking at his websites. Over a year later you had what appeared to be a fairly recent picture of the 2 of you. Recently you felt enough connection with OM that you put his picture in your frame, without his wife next to him. And its concerning that you put his drum corp t-shirt away while his wife was here and then pulled it back out now that she is gone.

With things as bad as they are between us I can understand you being attracted to someone else, but that doesn't make it right for either of us and I need to understand what you are feeling towards OM these days.


---At this point my plan is to stop and listen.

Other thoughts about this but not sure how to work into the conversation:

Seem she is hiding something from her friend.
Want to know if OM is aware of her feelings for him (I think he is)
I would like to not have to see daily reminders of OM in my house.
As long as she holds on to feeling for OM, there will be no change for us
Longer term she needs to cut all ties to OM for us to move forward but I know this has to be her choice and not forced by me.


Me:45, W:45
S:16 D:13
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
Putting finances in order for "D"
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
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I'm not necessarily advocating you send this letter but will provide feedback if for no other reason than to help you with some of your though processes.

Originally Posted By: ces67


===========================================

W, I know we haven’t talked about our marriage really since we stopped counseling last fall and like you said, you needed this time to work on yourself.

I just want you to know that I still care about you and if there is a chance we can work on our marriage together, I want to try. I know you don’t feel love for me anymore and it may never happen. Even if it did, it would take a very long time to build up that emotional connection. [color:#FF0000]<<<<--- this kind of commentary is like cementing thoughts that you should really be keeping open. Remember, "think as if"
My choices and actions have hurt you and damaged our marriage. I wish I could take it all back but at this point I can only learn from it and move forward. <<<----- how about here say, If I could do it over again, there are things I would do differently...

I do need to ask you about something we’ve only touched on. I would appreciate knowing what your current feelings are towards OM. Here’s why I’m asking. <<<-------- this serves no purpose other than to satisfy your own curiosity and insecurity. Will this statement bring you and your W closer?

When we first moved, you spent a lot of time looking at his websites. Over a year later you had what appeared to be a fairly recent picture of the 2 of you. Recently you felt enough connection with OM that you put his picture in your frame, without his wife next to him. And its concerning that you put his drum corp t-shirt away while his wife was here and then pulled it back out now that she is gone. <<<------ this is the stuff that bothers you and may not bother her. So why ask her why? Just tell her it is offensive to you.

With things as bad as they are between us I can understand you being attracted to someone else, but that doesn't make it right for either of us and I need to understand what you are feeling towards OM these days. [/color] <<< ----- Stop this! You are in essence justifying her behavior. You deserve more than that!

---At this point my plan is to stop and listen.

Other thoughts about this but not sure how to work into the conversation:

Seem she is hiding something from her friend. Not your concern
Want to know if OM is aware of her feelings for him (I think he is) So what if he is?
I would like to not have to see daily reminders of OM in my house. Then tell her...
As long as she holds on to feeling for OM, there will be no change for us. This is true and so? What?
Longer term she needs to cut all ties to OM for us to move forward but I know this has to be her choice and not forced by me. This is true but it will be in her own time and place, not yours. nothing you say will likely get her to change course. she will have to do it on hr own.


Me51 W53 S17 S14
M22 T25
Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11

It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.

Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
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Sounds good to me smile Very honest and open.

I wrote a similar one to H, and had been waiting for the best opportunity to give it to him- but he found it while I was in FL- he's never said anything about it.

My only suggestion would be to sleep on it for a day or a week- re-read it a few times to make sure things are worded in a way that she will be receptive, not defensive. Once you put these feelings out there, it's hard to take them back.

Some others might disagree, but I believe in putting it all out there so at least I know that I've given them all the info with which to make their choice. The hardest part is not building up hope for a miracle turn around. I've been reminding myself that if I think of my sitch like a freight train (referencing mnky), the fact is: it takes A LOT of time and consistent 'pressure' to stop a train- then it takes even more time and careful planning to turn one around. Patience, honesty and consistency are the only 'pressure' that we can apply to our WAS.


M-31, H-31
T-9, M-7
S-6, s-20mth
sep 8/1/11
ILYNILWY 11/29/11
Creating separation papers.
Discover H has feelings for BFF, she does too 1/11/12
H moves out 1.20.12
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2pt gave you just about the same suggestions I was going to give. 2pt went a little more in detail which is great! It also helps you reflect on your boundaries. This DB is really hard but you need to set boundaries to protect yourself (ie the pix of OM).

Thinking of you ces!


M 42 H 39
T10 (-2yrs separation)
S8 D5
DD 7/30/11 (EA&PA)
Reconciled 6/2013
Separation in works 1/2017
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Originally Posted By: ces67
I get together with a couple friends every Friday mornning for coffee before work. But to create mystery, its been a while. Its probably time to do something. Thanks for the reminder.

W & kids are leaving a week from today for Spring Break. The kids will get to see my parents so they'll like that.

I'll do some stuff while they're gone but I need to do more while W is here to see it.


First of all, don't do it so W can see it. Do it for you so you can pull away from the sitch. If she sees it, well bully for her, but it's not about her, it's about you.

When I asked when was the last time you went out and did something for yourself, I meant something more like maybe take a little weekend trip - hiking, camping weekend at friends or family; that sort of stuff.

The other day to day stuff is important but sometimes you just need to get away for awhile. Oh and BTW have you joined a DivorceCare group yet? I would highly recommend it and it gives you smethhign to do one night a week for you, away from the house.

Have you ever taken a cruise? You can get a screaming last minute deal for a 3-5 day cruise. Now wouldn't that be something? Get a couple of buddies to join you and go have some fun.


Me51 W53 S17 S14
M22 T25
Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11

It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.

Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
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Thanks all for the feedback.

2- Great points about not putting the assumptions out there for her. Thanks.

Your last point about her time makes a lot of sense. Personally, I hate it, but its still the truth. Two close friends of mine have both encouraged me to confront my W about this. Both had previously cheated on their wives but were able to save their marriages. I reminded both of them that it was not their wives confronting them that changed them but their own conscious and hearts that led them to confess and work to change.

I'd love to make it happen myself but it goes back to consistent change in myself for me. (why it works this way, I don't know but it just does...) Purg - You put this very clearly above. Thank you for the reminder!

Vero- I agree about the boundaries. I do want to strip back the message and maybe just focus on that.

2- A cruise sounds great. We are actually saving up now because W's family is planning one for Christmas 2013. (I'm doing the "as if" I'm still included)

I did invite a buddy to come visit me while family is out of town. Won't work out but I'm planning a weekend trip to go see him within the next couple months. When I go, I'm getting my first (and probably only) tattoo.

One of my coffee buddie's mentioned a family cabin a while back so maybe I can encourage him to let us borrow it and do a father/son weekend.

I'm taking D and a friend or 2 of hers to this awesome playground/park tomorrow after church. W is watching a friend's kids for the afternoon and S has homework so it will be some good father/daughter time.

Right now I'm very focused on repairing the financial mess we're in so I'm pretty reluctant to spend much money on myself too much.

I've looked around a little for a divorce/care group but haven't found one yet. I'll keep looking.

Thanks much for all the feedback.


Me:45, W:45
S:16 D:13
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
Putting finances in order for "D"
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
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ces67 Offline OP
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Journal stuff:

Another weekend of kid's friends spending the night. I'm very thankful our kids' friends enjoy coming and staying at our place.

S & D had their last drum performance today so it was a full day with the whole family. Did the drum show, S bball game, dinner out and the Lorax movie. Decent day. Fun with the kids and it seems to me they get a little comfort when we all do things together, especially my D.

Before the drum show, D had a b-day party to go to and had a minor meltdown getting ready. No real reason. W actually talked to me about it as stood in the bathroom getting ready. W things D is in the early stages of puberty because she said she can almost track when D is going to be more emotional.

W also talked about how D is more of a "follower" here and how she was a "leader" in our former home. This was because D chooses to dress more in jeans & t-shirts than cute girl clothes. To me W basically turned the converstation into how D would be so much better if we were still in our old home and she had her old friends and old activities to do.

I just listened. What I wanted to say is our D can still be strong and staying in a comfort zone your whole life won't prepare anyone for the changes that will absolutely come like college, moving out, new jobs, etc. etc.

I just listened and did not try to argue.

Also we drove separate to the drum show because W picked up D from bday party and S and I went straight there and then had to take off for his bball game.

Brief and odd 180 took place. After drum show, the group had pictures taken. W told me to take order forms and check over to the booth to pay for the pics.(she's an order giver, rarely "asks" for anything and I've typically always jumped to show my devotion or love or whatever...)

Instead of doing that I handed it all back to her and said, I need to get S to his game so you'll need to take care of this. I said goodbye to some friends who was there as well as D & W. As I said goodbye to W it honestly looked like she was about to lean over to give me a kiss like the old days but caught herself. As I said, it was very brief and I could have imagined it.

Also told W that we may want to drive separate tomorrow because I'm taking the kids to bible class as well as church. We'll see how the morning goes.


Me:45, W:45
S:16 D:13
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
Putting finances in order for "D"
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,711
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"Brief and odd 180 took place. After drum show, the group had pictures taken. W told me to take order forms and check over to the booth to pay for the pics.(she's an order giver, rarely "asks" for anything and I've typically always jumped to show my devotion or love or whatever...)

Instead of doing that I handed it all back to her and said, I need to get S to his game so you'll need to take care of this. I said goodbye to some friends who was there as well as D & W. As I said goodbye to W it honestly looked like she was about to lean over to give me a kiss like the old days but caught herself. As I said, it was very brief and I could have imagined it."


Good for you taking your b@lls back!

I have a friend who's W is the most demanding woman I have ever seen. Almost militant! She orders her H around all the time.

One day at a soccer game his son and mine were playing in, him and his W had just walked up to watch the game already in progress and his W orders him to leave the game to go check on their daughter at the playground.

He paused for a second and then said, "No, I think I'll stay and watch the game. Maybe you should go." I was so proud of him because there were a bunch of people standing around and heard every word of that conversation.

Sometimes, CES you just have to put your foot down and take back your b@lls!


Me51 W53 S17 S14
M22 T25
Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11

It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.

Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
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Sometimes, CES you just have to put your foot down and take back your b@lls!


I completely agree. The reality is though that I've been the "nice guy" for so long, its very difficult for me to do as I hate to upset people. I'm digging into why this is and its getting a little bit better.

Earlier today, W asked for some extra money to help get S some jeans while they are out of town (lower sales tax in the other state). I reminded her that this was the paycheck that I had no extra money and would end up having to use a credit card for some basic things as it was. She just king of mubled "oh yeah" and didn't say anything else.

Just a bit ago, I got back from doing the grocery shopping. She asked if I had put gas in the car. I just said "no" and left it at that and went about my business.


Me:45, W:45
S:16 D:13
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
Putting finances in order for "D"
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
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