"Detaching and no contact are to give you emotional space"
yes - i don't know how to really do this - but you're right i need to not see him in order to detach some more. and seeing him today is just going to make me feel bad - i have to do this for myself even though every part of me is screaming - he's going away for so long, i want to say good bye
i know i'm not detached when i write the following but it really really [censored] that she gets to see him off and say bye - or she possibly gets on that plane with him - he's going to new zealand for 2 weeks
aah the quiet acceptance of what is - may i reach enlightenment today (grin!)
btw - thanks for the explanation about what rick wrote - i need to learn more about where the i don't know comes from, how to work with it - because i know its still there with in him and i need to learn to work with it - in the past i've always been impatient and resentful about it
thanks labug - hope you're having a wonderful day:)
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
cadet - i meant to ask - could you please give me some pointers on detachment? especially when there is a child involved and there has to be a lot of contact?
thanks
Zig
Sorry to take so long to get back to you, if this is too late I understand, but here is a link on going dark
That should give you some help on those items. Detachment does not come all at once and can be thought of as an onion with all sorts of layers to it. Some might take years to achieve.
I would try to keep your interactions with him as businesslike as possible. Yes it is hard to do, but also learn about mirroring him. Certainly let him control the contact. Try to speak to him mostly through actions and not words. Although I understand with kids more words will be required.
Hi Zig found the post I was referring to. Mach1 Posted this to me. I am an extrovert my W is an introvert. Whenever I asked her a question she would at times give me a blank stare and no answer. That would drive me crazy. So here it is.
Ahhh....
Since we have been talking about communication styles, and triggers for you that leave you in a reactive state ( and not very good at it BTW )
I wanna throw something out to you...Cap'n Therapissed....
My x was an extrovert, very outgoing ( Italian, you know what I mean ). Over the years, I had patterned myself to dealing with myself in terms of communicating with her. I am somewhat an introvert . So the only way I really ever expressed myself, or interpreted myself in the relationship, was what I knew.
I dealt with her like she was an introvert, because that is the way I communicated. I didn't understand the difference in the two. Hell, maybe I would go as far as saying that I didn't know there was a different way.
When we would talk, HER answers were right there. I missed a LOT of them though, because I expected her to communicate with me on my terms. That led to a LOT of unfulfilled conversations from me. It led to frustrations because it was not the way I communicated. My frustration would lead to anger, much the same way you have described.
My partner now, is an introvert. And what I learned (the hard way ) , was the difference between the two communications styles. It wasn't until I met her, that it even occurred to me.
I would ask a question on my time, and expect an answer on my time.
What I learned was, that with communication with an introvert. (especially if you are an extrovert). We can ask questions on our time, although the answers come on their time. Sometimes I wait for days for an answer.
What I was doing with her was....I was asking these questions, and she would feel "pushed" for an answer, because she wasn't ready. And in time, she would feel over run, because the questions would stack up in her brain. One after another, before she could answer the first one....
This also led to some very frustrating times, until I learned to ask one thing...then wait for the answer. I pour a tall glass of STFU, until her answers come to her.
What this did, was allow me to step back, and relieve a lot of frustration on my end, because I was eliminating my expectations.
I removed MY triggers for frustration turning towards anger at her....by simply recognizing and removing those expectations.
Just something to think about.....
I saw that in your post this morning...
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
hi cadet thanks for all that info - i went and read the link, and learned from it - it made me look back at my sitch and see more clearly what worked and what hasn't
in my case it seems to be that going too dark sends the wrong message - that is what i did in our relationship - totally withdrew when things got too much, and he sees my withdrawal now as more of the same.
what i've learned during these last 6 mos. as i start to really "see" how the dynamics between his family members really work - is that when i am happy, open, kind and generous is when he is the most comfortable and the most relaxed around me - that shows him that i am FULLY accepting the situation and he is more relaxed
what i've really noticed is that when i withdraw and imply that i am cutting him off, he is very pained - and because i know him so well i know he takes it as - well i will just have to accept that she is leaving me emotionally, because i can't do anything about it 9a really defeatist attitude imo but that is how he functions!
that feeling of being pained reminds him i think acutely of how pained he was during the marriage.
so tell me if i'm getting this all backwards - but it seems to me that if i was to really go dark, then it would be "more of the same" - but if i am really HERE accepting everything and still smiling then i am doing a total 180, because that was definitely NOT ME before - i was really critical and when he pushed my buttons too much i would shut down
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
thank you so much for this rick - oh gosh , just like a host of other things if only i had read this years ago....
i really needed to see this - it's bang on the mark of how i reacted - i am definitely the extrovert and he is ultra introvert
my downfall ALWAYS in everything has always been my impatience - terribly impatient and as i look back at our relationship i think it was probably the most major factor that led us to this.
and now i know that it is the biggest factor at play during this sitch - to step back on all levels and just be patient and let things play out
this sitch was given to me now, to finally learn patience and acceptance and to force me to let go of the control - that insidious need which gives us the false impression that life is good
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
well so much for my gal today and being totally detached.
i did leave the house at 9 and stayed away, but one of my errands was grocery shopping and i decided to stop by the house for 5 mins to put the food in the fridge because it's really warm today - well H dropped by right then
i guess it was meant to be - i had been listening to pema chodron's 'fear to fearlessness' talk in the car while driving and found myself thinking that in terms of what i had planned to do, i was actually trying to manipulate the situation - and that i simply needed to stop doing that - she was talking about being open to EVERY experience and sitting with the quality of that experience and the emotions it brought up
so i just went with the situation (i could have run out and missed him, but it seemed pointless at that moment) and focused onjust being friendly and pleasant and relaxed.
i went out on the back porch and he just came and joined me and its a gorgeous day and we sat there in the sun and he didn't seem to be in a hurry to leave - we had a great relaxed conversation mostly about the conference he was going to and the people we knew there and how crazy and fun it was going to be
(what brought us together was that we are both in the same profession and our biggest interests and skills are in the same area. what made us fall apart is that after the accident i lost all connection mentally and emotionally with my work and we couldn't connect as much anymore - now i'm really working on rebuilding that connection)
when he left, we were out in the driveway - and i saw him walking towards me - i think he was going to give me a hug, but i casually turned to start walking into the house and said bye have a great trip - i could feel his disappointment and his face fell a bit - but i just couldn't give him that
so the emotions are rising a bit , but after writing here they are a slight bit calmer
i have a GAL coming up - waiting for my sweet friend who has been a staunch support through this (and one of the few who have not encouraged me to file for divorce) to call me and we are going out to lunch
after that i shall focus on getting 2 biggies on my list of to-do things done and then time for S to come home and be with him for the evening
it iS a good day and i will only think about accepting fully what is:)
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
You and your H sound just like us. It is interesting that the introvert is the one who left. Don't you think? The control issue is what I see in many sitchs on the board. Control is really a problem and hard to let go of. But doable so keep at it you are doing great.
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
so tell me if i'm getting this all backwards - but it seems to me that if i was to really go dark, then it would be "more of the same" - but if i am really HERE accepting everything and still smiling then i am doing a total 180, because that was definitely NOT ME before - i was really critical and when he pushed my buttons too much i would shut down
You know your sich better than I do. No Contact/Dark/ DIM are all options and mabe what you need to do(pick one of the above),
The key is to STOP pursuit. There are different kinds of pursuing traits, but you want him to pursue you, not the opposite. Most men are sexual pursurers and emotional distancers. Women are usually the opposite. Now I am not telling you to sexually pursue him right now if he is involved with someone else. But a 180 needs to be for the right thing. If I am an alcholic and drinking vodka and switch to beer, you could say I did a 180. Think that is going to help?
"It is interesting that the introvert is the one who left. Don't you think?"
i don't know what to think -
in my darker less secure moments, i find myself thinking that he didn't want to be there from the start - that even though he loved me, he didn't want the commitment - i sensed it in a way all along and it always made me nervous. he cycled through periods where he made more effort and seemed more committed and then through periods where it was obvious he wanted to be elsewhere but felt he had to be a good dad and husband.
then i think - that he just wanted a big break from the heaviness of life and when it came in the form of the OW, he just went for it without thinking too much about what it really meant. he says he really thought about it alot before he decided to do it - i don't really know how he could have since he met her and they started either the same day or the next.
he says he thought about it for many months but only took the step when he met her - meanwhile during those same months our sex life was getting better, we were much warmer towards each other and he was acting the MOST caring that he ever had since we got together - how does that work
as far as introvert leaving - well - even though i am a natural extrovert, the effects of the accident made me the exact opposite - so maybe it's not so easy to apply a general rule here
about the control - i wince to think how i used to be - and how easy it is now to just not even be bothered about all those little things - i think it comes from a place of insecurity where having the semblance of control allows you to feel a stronger person - but it is so false...
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
thanks for your answer cadet - i have definitely stopped pursuit for a while now - even when he gets all emotional and says how conflicted he is and how he wants both - i just stay quiet and genuinely have no expectations.
i've been burned several times during this separation - in the first couple of months where i let us sleep together - only to have him tell me the next morning how he was going to keep pursuing this other thing meaning ow.
after the third time i decided no more - if i ever sleep w/ him again it's because i am absolutely sure that he is really committed -
now i don't let him really know what i am thinking or feeling except to have implied a few times in the last couple of months that i am sort of done.
mil said what i thought was a strange thing a couple of weeks ago - only when you're really done and he realizes it will he wake up and suddenly start begging you to work it out.
well how does that work!!
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
