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#2228655 - 03/07/12 10:27 PM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: ~ kd ~]
Crazyville Offline
Member

Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 1047
Quote:
But to my mind, if it was that important, then do it yourself or wait until I got around to doing it.

2TP, would it have been a problem for you if your W had, in fact, just done it herself? I got the distinct impression from earlier posts that that's a bad thing. Also, in my sitch, it has resulted in me eventually just doing all of it myself, and finding I don't really have a "need" for H for much of anything. Therefore, he doesn't feel needed. Catch22.
_________________________
Me:49 WAW H:59
T:19.5 M:19
S:13

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#2228659 - 03/07/12 10:35 PM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: Crazyville]
2thepoint Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1692
In this particular instance, no. Changing a light bulb is not something that I view as hyper technical. I eventually changed the bulb but her harping on "that" really was getting on my nerves. Especially since we had so many more important things to worry about.

Had we had a honeydo list - we didn't - I would have probably gotten to it much sooner than I did. As I said, I did forget about it a few times.

Again CV, I think it is all a balance.
_________________________
Me48 W50 S15 S11
M20 T23
Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11

It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.

Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife

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#2228663 - 03/07/12 10:37 PM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: Crazyville]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2090
"How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It" goes into this. I believe they give the example where there was a broken step that had been on the Honeydo list forever. Eventually the W just told the H she was going to fix it, asked where the tools were etc. She started to fix it and he came out to observe and just ended up taking over and doing a good job of it. I believe their point was that's a better approach than nagging, which doesn't seem to be an issue for you.

It may work in this example too. Tell H you plan to fix the shingle, ask him what tools and materials you'll need. Tell him you're going to go for it on Sunday or something. If he chooses to jump on it before then great. If Sunday rolls around and he hasn't done anything, then feel free to address it however you want in terms of fixing it yourself.

In terms of setting expectations, if W asks me to fix something and I can tell she just doesn't care that much about it, I'm a lot less motivated than if it's something that's really bothering her. If I know it's important, I'm more likely to jump on it.

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014
Divorced 8/2014

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#2228666 - 03/07/12 10:46 PM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: Accuray]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Originally Posted By: Accuray
In terms of setting expectations, if W asks me to fix something and I can tell she just doesn't care that much about it, I'm a lot less motivated than if it's something that's really bothering her. If I know it's important, I'm more likely to jump on it.


Men are pretty predictable. For the most part, we just want to know our ladies are happy.

But on the other side of the coin... when the nagging starts... we turn off and drop out... Not because we don't want to make our ladies happy... rather... because we have had the complete opposite effect and therefore come to the conclusion that we can not make them happy, so stop trying... we are humiliated and in some ways, emasculated...

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#2228674 - 03/07/12 10:57 PM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: Accuray]
Crazyville Offline
Member

Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 1047
Quote:
Tell H you plan to fix the shingle, ask him what tools and materials you'll need. Tell him you're going to go for it on Sunday or something. If he chooses to jump on it before then great. If Sunday rolls around and he hasn't done anything, then feel free to address it however you want in terms of fixing it yourself.

This I like very much. I like the idea of not having to penalize myself in an effort to provide him what he needs. (I feel like it's what I did when I hired the handyman this fall, but I don't think that was received well by H or this board. I'll have to trace back and revisit that thread.)

The trick for me will be in managing to do it without sounding insincere. If I have to ask him what tools I'll need, for example, it will be insincere. I am simply more handy than him. It's not arrogance, just a by-product of being my father's daughter. Be it training or genetics, it was a gift. I'll be on the lookout for other opportunities/options.
_________________________
Me:49 WAW H:59
T:19.5 M:19
S:13

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#2228675 - 03/07/12 11:01 PM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: Crazyville]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Originally Posted By: Crazyville
I am simply more handy than him. It's not arrogance, just a by-product of being my father's daughter. Be it training or genetics, it was a gift. I'll be on the lookout for other opportunities/options.


If that is a fact and accepted by both yourself and your H, then so be it.

In that case, how else can your H feel needed by you? How else can he feel loved and appreciated by you, for the things he contributes to the M?

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#2228676 - 03/07/12 11:02 PM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: ~ kd ~]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2090
Also from "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It" -- worst emotion for a man is shame. It causes a chemical reaction in the brain which makes us feel physically uncomfortable. It's a "fight or flight" trigger that says "something isn't going well here, change your circumstance" and that's what leads to the withdrawal. It's more instinctual than conscious.

If H believes you are going to shame him he will just stop trying, withdraw, and avoid any circumstance which could possibly lead to him being shamed, because it makes him physically uncomfortable to be in that position -- not just emotionally uncomfortable, physically.

If I were to summarize that book in one sentence it would be "shaming is a major no-no if you want good behavior for your H"

The "I wish you would be ..." generally provokes the opposite behavior that you want. I'm sure you know this stuff.

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014
Divorced 8/2014

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#2228679 - 03/07/12 11:20 PM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: Accuray]
Crazyville Offline
Member

Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 1047
Accuray, please don't assume I know anything. If I did, I suspect I wouldn't be here. smile
Quote:
In that case, how else can your H feel needed by you? How else can he feel loved and appreciated by you, for the things he contributes to the M?

And that would be the $64k question! I don't know. It seems everything I ask, he either declines outright or neglects until I deal with it myself. He has started filling my gas tank for me. It's not something I can't do myself, or something I can depend upon him to do regularly, but does that count?

I'm not a guy, I can't get in his (your) head. I completely get shaming being a bad thing, but women don't like being shamed either, so I probably don't need the intricacies behind it to know it's not a good thing to do. If he cooked better than me, I would LOVE it, even though it's "woman's work." I would relish the opportunity to learn something and enhance my skills. Men have this "ego" thing that I just don't get, such that if I can hang crown molding and H can't, rather than watch and learn, he sulks.

I don't yet have "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It," still waiting for it. I'm currently reading "How to have a new H by Friday." I will confess to having taken a few days off of reading, as I was on overload and nothing was going to "take" anyway. But I'm on spring break next week so I'll be back into it then. Maybe some other books will have arrived by then.

I do love hearing the guy perspective directly from a guy, though.
_________________________
Me:49 WAW H:59
T:19.5 M:19
S:13

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#2228684 - 03/07/12 11:28 PM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: Crazyville]
sandi2 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 11339
I'll use way too many words, but please be patient.

I was fortunate enough to have been taught several years ago about what true forgiveness is....and what it isn't. I was fortunate b/c I don't think I'd be here today, if I had not been given that information. It was vital to me when I was faced with applying forgiveness to my H. It also helped me to know we can forgive without an apology from the offender. (Which I never had.)

Forgiveness is a personal decision we make. The fact that we have really forgiven, is not based on an emotion. When we forgive, it is an act of our own free will. It has to be our choice, or it's not genuine. This was so important for me to learn b/c I use to base everything on my feelings. But if forgiveness is based on my feelings I have at the time…..then I’d never be able to forgive some things! Sure, it helps if my heart will mellow out where I feel better about forgiving the rascal, but you know…..I learned to do it in spite of my feelings.

So, we make a decision to forgive the other person. We may or may not think they deserve to be forgiven, but that’s not the real issue. The real issue in forgiveness is that it's based on who we are....not who the other person is. It's more about our character instead of their character.

Once we make the decision to forgive, it’s not necessary to tell. Unless he has admitted doing us wrong or has asked for our forgiveness, we don't have to announce it. (There are some who just as soon tell us to keep our forgiveness b/c they don't want it), so telling or not telling is also our decision.

Go into this without any expectations from him. Where have we heard that before? I think we've heard that advice quite a bit right here on DB. Same thing applies in this case, too. We can't do it as if it were a magic spell and set back to see the big payoff. If anything, we are usually tested about that "forgiveness" we told ourselves we were doing. Tested by our own self doubt when we experience any negative emotions...AFTER we forgave the person.

I think that goes back to your question.

Quote:
How do you know when you've forgiven someone? /quote]

Although the act of forgiving isn’t based on emotions, it usually brings a sense of peace to the mind that has had so much negative in it. Once we let go of all those negative feelings we’ve carried around for so long, we may discover our emotional load is quite lighter!

Forgiveness is our decision to let go of our anger, hurt, resentment, etc. that we have toward another person. We make the decision that we will no longer be a slave to those destructive emotional cancers. We realize that we have punished ourselves by having hard feelings toward the other person. Maybe we aren’t ready to let go b/c somehow we think we need to punish him a little longer. That’s just wrong!

Let's say you have made the decision from your own volition to forgive your H about...whatever (pick one). Since both you and your H are human beings, there is a good chance that he'll say or do something to trigger your anger/doubt/or something. If you react....even if it's kept within your own mind....you may wonder if that means you failed and didn't REALLY forgive him in the first place--or you wouldn't be feeling that way now. That's an old trick our mind uses to cause us to doubt ourselves. CV, you don't stop having emotions to things, especially if he does something that hurts. Neither do we lose our memory after we choose to forgive. We just don’t dwell on it and allow it to control us.

The old offense should not weigh on us as before, but you aren’t shielded to new hurts. New offense can hurt and if that new offense looks and feels like the old one, then it can cause us to doubt about success in forgiving him at all. Why? Based on what?

What do you do when you start to experience that stuff again? Do you wonder that something must be wrong....and you must have failed and didn't forgive him at all....yada, yada. This is important right here so don't look it over too quickly.....you come right back to that doubt with the self knowledge (b/c it was a self decision) and determination (b/c you are certainly determined) that you chose to forgive him and you stillchoose to forgive him. It may sound silly, but sometimes we have to speak to our doubting minds and tell it to stop stop!!

If you are a Christian, then you can relate this with how you believe God loves you. You know He does because His Word says so. When those bad days come and your mind or emotions try to cause you to doubt His love......what will you do then? Will you say that since you don't "feel" very loved right then, or you aren't lovable therefore God couldn't possibly love you? That's when you realize it's not based on your feelings. Feeling the love is great, but let's face it, we don't always have the warm fuzzies, we'd like. In spite of doubts, you know the truth and it's based on the Word of God. It's up to you to believe it.

[quote]How do you know that you haven't?


When you have no peace. When you cannot resist talking about the “forgiven” offense. When his offenses plague you day & night. When you make a stance on your decision to forgive, but you continue to treat your H no differently.
I believe the most telling sign of unforgiveness is if you drag up old offenses when you get into a R talk or argument with him.

Forgiveness is an act of grace.

I never heard of anyone regretting that they forgave an offense.
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It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!

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#2228690 - 03/07/12 11:41 PM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: sandi2]
Crazyville Offline
Member

Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 1047
Thanks, Sandi. I'm sorry you lost your other post! BTDT! I'm going to take what you've said and what the others have said and see if I can mush it all together. And then.... well, we'll see.
_________________________
Me:49 WAW H:59
T:19.5 M:19
S:13

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