NOTICE: In order to help the OnLine Community run more efficiently, we will be pruning the boards over the next few weeks. If there are any Topics or Posts you want to keep, please save them soon.
Page 10 of 12 < 1 2 ... 8 9 10 11 12 >
Topic Options
#2230136 - 03/13/12 09:41 AM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: Crazyville]
Crazyville Offline
Member

Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 1047
Quote:
And CV is still allowing it. No news there either.
No, actually, specifically on the topic of sex which is what this statement was referring to, we haven't had sex since that time and we won't be -- indefinitely.
_________________________
Me:49 WAW H:59
T:19.5 M:19
S:13

Top
#2230142 - 03/13/12 09:53 AM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: Crazyville]
InAPickle Offline
Member

Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 678
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Originally Posted By: Crazyville
No, I'm not interested in being the victim. I'm trying to figure out how to make my M work. I'm getting some mixed message here -- some say keep trying, keep giving him an opportunity to shine, forgive and get over the past and reengage, then you're saying to stop doing all those things because it means I don't have boundaries. It can't be both.


You're right CV. Speaking very subjectively, from my own experience, a lot of talk about "forgiveness" seems simplistic and theoretical and comes across like all you need to is "will it" and a switch will be thrown.

What I mean is real life isn't like that for everyone, perhaps for some, but I'd submit that most of us need a lot of fvcking time to get over things. I've said before, you cannot speed up healing, especially when it comes to emotional scars, and that's what we're all dealing with here, our emotions. Think about it: it's all about our emotions, how we're feeling.

CV, no matter which direction you decide on, point your compass toward healing yourself emotionally, and if that means temporarily not putting up with someone else's sh!t, fine. If it means something else, then that's fine too. You know forgiveness can also be doled out a little at a time as we heal, not just all at once.

So you "can" set bounderies and still give someone else a chance. But to do that you have to have your head in the game, and to do that, you have to be emotionally secure, and that means expecting to be happy with whatever the future holds and whatever decisions you make.

Hugs, Pic.
_________________________
Me 53 XW 50
M 18 Years +2
S14 D19
Bomb 10-24-10
Served 1-27-11
Mediate 4-21-11
Civil D Final 6-2-11
No church anullment
"A man is not finished when he is defeated, he is finished when he quits."

Top
#2230153 - 03/13/12 10:31 AM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: InAPickle]
Crazyville Offline
Member

Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 1047
I was perusing Grmpy_Mnky's post yesterday and I read this:
Quote:
Look, I will be happy and forever grateful if we get another shot at our M. If we don't, I will still be happy and grateful for the time we had.

And this got me thinking. I love GM's statement, but I needed one with a twist so I'm working on my own. I think it's in line with the advice to LBS's that they need to know they're going to be fine whether the M is R or not. I'm thinking something like...

- I'm going to be happy. Not because of you, but in spite of you.
- I'm going to be happy, and I'm not going to let you be responsible for that in any way.
- My personal happiness can't be dependent upon a healthy M, so I need to spend my time/energy on me instead of our M.

I could use help with this. These aren't smooth. It's going to become my mantra. I think I like the second one best. I was already on this course yesterday after reading GM's post, then H kicked it in gear for me last night. I asked him for a clarification on something he said this weekend, and he immediately got angry and told me I focus too much on the M, that I'm making it my idol. And I thought, "maybe so..."

So I want to reach a point where it just doesn't matter. If H walked in looking like Brad Pitt, was romantic like Valentino, got a promotion at work and made $1M/year, etc. or walked in and handed me D papers, I want to be completely unaffected either way. That is my mission. I want to be soooo independently happy/living that what my H does or doesn't do makes absolutely no difference to my life.

Meanwhile, I'm going to go take my dog for a long walk in this beautiful weather, because that makes me very happy (and him, too.) smile
_________________________
Me:49 WAW H:59
T:19.5 M:19
S:13

Top
#2230162 - 03/13/12 11:00 AM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: Crazyville]
oldtimer Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 4474
*THIS*.

"- I'm going to be happy. Not because of you, but in spite of you.
- I'm going to be happy, and I'm not going to let you be responsible for that in any way.
- My personal happiness can't be dependent upon a healthy M, so I need to spend my time/energy on me instead of our M."

YES!!!!!! YES!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!

"So I want to reach a point where it just doesn't matter. If H walked in looking like Brad Pitt, was romantic like Valentino, got a promotion at work and made $1M/year, etc. or walked in and handed me D papers, I want to be completely unaffected either way. That is my mission. I want to be soooo independently happy/living that what my H does or doesn't do makes absolutely no difference to my life."


Noooo!!!

Of course it is important to have a relationship, a partnership that enriches our lives in which we share in joy, support each other through hard times, etc...

There is a difference between a strong, independent, self-sufficient, self-reliant, whole, well-grounded person and being alone and uncaring. The first requires detachment from another person's stuff so it doesn't warp you and undermine your happiness thereby making space for greater intimacy, the second requires alienation and denial of self and others.

If that doesn't make sense now, ignore it, and focus on the first stuff.

As for the boundaries -- great job stating them clearly to H. It sounds like the side of things to work on is ENFORCING them. Unenforced boundaries are not really boundaries. Resentfully going along with boundary breaches is not good for anyone. It is damaging to you, it sets H up for failure. So, try to STOP a boundary violation PRECISELY when it happens. No CPAP, no wife in bed. No respecting your sexual boundaries, no continuance of sexual activities in that moment.
_________________________
Best,
Oldtimer

Top
#2230167 - 03/13/12 11:31 AM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: Crazyville]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Originally Posted By: Crazyville
... H kicked it in gear for me last night. I asked him for a clarification on something he said this weekend, and he immediately got angry and told me I focus too much on the M, that I'm making it my idol. And I thought, "maybe so..."


To me, this is very telling... (combined with other recent sharing)...

When we talk about respecting yourself, it is because we can't be guaranteed that others will respect us... In the "normal world" we can simply remove ourselves from those who do not respect us. In a M, it's not so easy.

Respecting yourself is a very healthy boundary...

You weren't innocent in the breakdown of the M... but...

In your hurt, pain and anger, the messages that came across in your posts had an appearance that you may simply be venting at the little things, making them bigger than they were.

We can't know your H's perspective, but his behaviours and language suggest that he may not honour the M in the same way that you (rightly) may.

It sounds like your H may either be complacent or stuck in regards to the M. I mean, really so...

Why would anyone not want better...?

In the "worst" of my M, if my W would have come to me and said, "I want to work on making a better M." I would have been happy to work with her towards that end. Even when I was really mad "at her".

People work to have a better job, more money, more fun, more... more... more... it's human nature...

It would be interesting to know what your H's answer would be to the question, "Do you want a better M?"

Top
#2230169 - 03/13/12 11:35 AM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: ~ kd ~]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
In the "worst" of my M, if my W would have come to me and said, "I want to work on making a better M." I would have been happy to work with her towards that end. Even when I was really mad "at her".

Let me balance and qualify the above by saying:

AND... in the BEST of my M, if my W would have come to me and said, "I want to work on making a better M." I would have been happy to work with her towards that end. Even when I was really HAPPY "with her".

Top
#2230174 - 03/13/12 11:42 AM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: oldtimer]
Crazyville Offline
Member

Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 1047
Quote:
Of course it is important to have a relationship, a partnership that enriches our lives in which we share in joy, support each other through hard times, etc...
I have that, with many people. My H is not that person to me anyway. He is not supportive, he's not the one I would turn to in hard times anyway because he has already proven that he won't be there when I've needed him. Believing my M was supposed to be what you described is what has gotten me here in the first place.

Quote:
There is a difference between a strong, independent, self-sufficient, self-reliant, whole, well-grounded person and being alone and uncaring. The first requires detachment from another person's stuff so it doesn't warp you and undermine your happiness thereby making space for greater intimacy, the second requires alienation and denial of self and others.

If that doesn't make sense now, ignore it, and focus on the first stuff.
The depression/frustration/anger/hopelessness I've been feeling from trying to work on my M has made me alone and uncaring. The last 24 hours focusing on this mission has lightened my spirit in indescribable ways. I finally feel like I'm able to be caring for others, to want to be around people and not want to isolate myself in my home. For the first time, I think I can honestly say that I DON'T CARE if he's not happy with me. I no longer feel guilty about that. I will never breach my boundaries again, and if that means we never have sex again, then it's his problem. My trying to solve his problems creates problems for ME.

Trying to interact with my H in an intimate way is toxic for me. I refuse to be that stupid again. Call it me enforcing boundaries. I can be cordial, I can be respectful, because that is who I am. But we will not SHARE a life together. At this point, it would literally take a miracle.
_________________________
Me:49 WAW H:59
T:19.5 M:19
S:13

Top
#2230176 - 03/13/12 11:46 AM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: Crazyville]
Crazyville Offline
Member

Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 1047
Quote:
It would be interesting to know what your H's answer would be to the question, "Do you want a better M?"

I can answer that for you because I've asked him that. His answer is 'yes,' and the how is a list of about 47 things that I need to do, one of them, of course, being more sex.
_________________________
Me:49 WAW H:59
T:19.5 M:19
S:13

Top
#2230177 - 03/13/12 11:51 AM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: Crazyville]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Originally Posted By: Crazyville
The last 24 hours focusing on this mission has lightened my spirit in indescribable ways. I finally feel like I'm able to be caring for others, to want to be around people and not want to isolate myself in my home. For the first time, I think I can honestly say that I DON'T CARE if he's not happy with me. I no longer feel guilty about that. I will never breach my boundaries again, and if that means we never have sex again, then it's his problem. My trying to solve his problems creates problems for ME.


I could bold ALL of the above...

VERY nice... stay there, in that mind set...

Top
#2230192 - 03/13/12 12:48 PM Re: When it's a one-way street...part 4 [Re: ~ kd ~]
oldtimer Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 4474
" I think I can honestly say that I DON'T CARE if he's not happy with me. I no longer feel guilty about that. I will never breach my boundaries again, and if that means we never have sex again, then it's his problem. My trying to solve his problems creates problems for ME.

Trying to interact with my H in an intimate way is toxic for me. I refuse to be that stupid again. Call it me enforcing boundaries. I can be cordial, I can be respectful, because that is who I am. But we will not SHARE a life together. At this point, it would literally take a miracle."

This is great, so great :-) !! It may not feel like it, but this is HUGE progress for yourself.

[And, only as a side-benefit, it also gives your M its best chance for morphing into something that might be a good part of your life, or for becoming something that *clearly*, from a detached, non-fear, non-pain driven place, does not fit into your life. The brackets here are very intentional. Making this the goal takes the focus of YOU.]

OK, now, NEW book recommendation, and it may seem paradoxical, but it isn't once you grasp what the book is about: Passionate Marriage.

Passionate Marriage is all about individuation, about you being a whole happy person regardless of your spouse. It is about setting and enforcing boundaries that WORK FOR YOU. It is about detachment, about not being enmeshed. It is about making space for genuine intimacy and NOT accepting parts of relationships that are damaging to you. It is NOT a how-to-hot-sex book, AT ALL. I actually got it after I filed for D SOLELY to work on MYSELF.

Very happy for you!
_________________________
Best,
Oldtimer

Top
Page 10 of 12 < 1 2 ... 8 9 10 11 12 >


Moderator:  dbmod, Virginia 

Save Your Marriage! Schedule Online

Schedule a phone consultation with a Divorce Busting® Coach! Call: 800-664-2435 or 303-444-7004