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Originally Posted By: sandi2
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I told her on Wednesday night that I would leave the house since it appears there is no hope of saving the R, and she became hysterical, telling me that I had to stay for the kids.


Just curious, but has she said what she wants in the future? Does she want you to remain in the home and her be D from you? Have you asked?


Sandi2,

As I said she wants to be friends. When I was old on Wednesday Night she was drunk and told me she did not love me anymore. And whst if her soul mate is out there. Tuesday she told me shw wanted space and that she is sorry for being so f**** up. W was sexually abused from 8-12 from stepdad and it seems every other spring she has to shake her life up. She has been to counseling regarding same. Told her we could get through this and that I don't think she is messed up.

She has not discuessed the future with me or much of anything. Small talk between us, but nothing else. Wrestling with the kids but ignoring me. I tried to join in, but she pulled back.


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I just don't get her falling apart when she thought you were moving out. I know you said she still wanted to be friends, but really? She needs to get real.

Have you thought about telling her that arrangement doesn't work for you?

I can't speak for all women, but I think when most say they want to remain friends....it's just a way of trying to slide out of the R without any protest from the man. Did you ever have a girl breakup with you in high school and say she hoped you two could stay friends? Same thing happening here.

So tell me, why does she think she can have her cake and eat it too?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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That is what drives me nuts she keeps the lifestyle without having to do anything. I told her she was nuts. There is no way I am going to have such a roommate. She said we should do it for the kids.

Today we are all home, had to call when she came home and I was not there (told me the kids told her to call they didn't). I am playing with them while she reads.

She is in space mode now figured it goes against everything to raise the R issue.


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W head was buried in a James Patterson book the duration of the day. Majority of the day was spent playing with D6 and peacemaker with S10. Made lunch and dinner (I am the regular cook) and got a thanks.

She then brought up next week's schedule for her work. Has to take her car in on Tuesday. Offered to take drop her off @ work before taking the kids to school. Initially declined, but then reminded her that she is anally retentive with being to work on time and always early. Told her that I would rather just drop her off than have to get a frantic call when she is going to be late. Accepted my offer to give her a ride.

Really anxious to be around her, always feels like I am on the edge. I gave her the day to relax, no problem doing that. Would like to ask her, "you really think 1 person can do this?" Since I have been doing my 180 with the kids they have been so much better behaved. I also now step back when the W snaps at the kids.


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Hey Sad... sorry for your sitch man. I'm in WI too.. other side of the state, though I grew up in Grafton. It may be time to visit Cedar Creek if you know what I mean smile

Ok... seriously, let me be straight. The next few months are going to suck. Feel free to check out my sitch, but know that it does get better, but only after it gets worse.

The "friends" thing.. my W says/is saying the same thing. And we are right now. Why? I guess b/c she is my friend. She's also my S's mom and I'd like him to not see us at each other. And, frankly, b/c I have empathy for her.

Each WAW has their own motivation. Some amount of that motivation is driven by things we, the H's, have done. Some of us on these boards have done lots of very bad things and others have done less, but in the end we all have our faults. At the same time we're also human. Our WAW's also have their faults and their issues. Now... at the point W and I are at in our process... I see her as lost and hurting so it's easy to have empathy.

Don't bring up whether she can hack it or not. A great piece of advice, maybe it was even from Sandi, is that it's not our job to teach our spouse's life lessons... it's life's job to do that.

Your only focus needs to be on you. You mentioned that your kids like the new dad. Don't give that up. Not b/c you want to save your marriage or keep your wife, but b/c your kids need it (and will need it even more in the coming months). Dig deep and figure out what else you don't like... then work on that too.

If she comes around, she comes around. If not you end up with a better you. You'll hear this a hundred times, get used to it.

A few other suggestions... don't move out. My W and I lived together for six months after the bomb.. and yes, it was not fun. But I didn't move out, she did. I didn't leave my kids, she took them, trust me that the kids know the difference (especially the 10 year old will). I will readily admit that DBing when you're apart is much easier than when you're together. But ultimately if she wants out she can do that.

Others may disagree with this advice... that's the nature of the boards. I know we are to love our wives they way they want to be loved (versus the way we want to love them). But running out of your house isn't that solution.

As far as your W freaking out on you about moving out... they are unpredictable. WAW's are also self-focused, selfish, and often narcissistic... get used to it. The next many months will largely be about her and her needs. You will grow frustrated and angry at how she shorts your kids. How she constructs you as the cause of her problems. But she's also scared out of her wits and fear is a terrible motivator.

Just today my W and I were exchanging emails. She misconstrued something I said and thought I was telling her that the email I had just sent was the last email I would ever send her. She lost it and freaked out. The same woman who moved out two weeks ago and wants a D is afraid she'll never get another email from me for the rest of her life. Don't mind the fact that we have a S together and two stepkids from her first marriage that I am more-or-less Dad to... how exactly I'd never email her again is beyond me. But it made sense to her...

To also quote someone else on the boards...

"WAWs are fun"

Good luck. If you ever catch a Brewers game let me know.. maybe MR MR, you, and I can commiserate.


Married 6 together 8
Me:38 W:31 second marriage for both
SS12, SD10, S6
Bomb: 9/8/11 (day before our 5 yr ann)
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Dear Sad,

I think WorkingGuy has some good suggestions. Though I'm usually in total agreement with Sandi, I don't get the same "cake eating" read from your wife that she does, at least not yet.


To me, She sounds confused and sad herself. She has not slept or eaten well, like you. She burst into tears and she's taking out her pain on the kids, per you.

So the "cake eating" is purely financial? Is that it? Couldn't the same be said about you? I mean this way there is only one mortgage to pay so in reality right now you both benefit by staying under the same roof (financially speaking).

If she is having an affair, she's not bringing OM home to the kids...so again, I'm not seeing a lot of cake eating compared to confusion and pain from her.
But the other thing is,

In any event, ALL WASs are "cake eaters" in a way, for awhile. How?


B/C for some amount of time the LBSer works on the M, while the WAS does not.

So for some time, we all allow that. We take the first step to save the m...and the 2nd step, and the next 100 steps...

that's reality b/c the LBSer is the one here posting and the WAS is not.

She's not here working on the m b/c she wants the m to end...

(and be friends, sort of)...and you don't want it to end.

So either lose the score card, OR save the score keeping and "getting even" for a whole lot later.

Please tell me, other than your work hours, which you say have changed, what were HER SPECIFIC complaints about you?

The "selfishness" means... what? I ask so I can better advise about 180s...like getting some skiis on would be great to do. Be less predictable.

A bit of mystery is a good idea. In a subtle way you can let her realize that at some point you will not stick around to watch her date OMs, and you don't intend to never be touched again...she can deduce that someday, you will probably date OWs...and bring them into the house IF you are still living there...gee, how will that work?

She's not realistic now. Her going nuts when you said you'd move out is a testament to how little she has thought this out.

But no, I am not saying you have to be in limboland forever...you can make small adjustments now.

Small consistent changes + sufficient time = change she can believe in.


And once we have a better idea about the inner work YOU have to do, we can help better. The real journey in life is an inner one.

My DB coach was great and I highly recommend you talk to one for a 3 session package. (They are Not that expensive if you compare it to ICs around here).

And they are very specific w/their advice. IMO, the DB coach I had, did more to keep our m together than anyone else, though I loved my mc too.

Here were some of her suggestions for me, and some may apply to you as well.

First, Lose the anger, at least in front of her.
It tends to validate her choice to leave, Not question it. Expressing your anger to her helps no one.

In fact, I found that although I didn't think my h "deserved" no anger from me, I finally realized that my anger consumed mostly ME, and by letting go of it, I helped ME first, then the m. So I got some peace...

Second, applaud loudly for the 1% of positives your spouse does
...It may sound corny but just making yourself focus on the positives really helps- but the positive comments you express must be sincere and authentic to you.

It really does wonders for the relationship and helps you with the kids too...and teaches them...and your w will notice it. It supports her, it shows love, and maybe her other love language is words of affirmation. She sure seems to be very sensitive to what you say, so think about it.

Being an introvert CAN mean that you say fewer flattering things than you realize, and it may come off as you withholding from her...AND OR being critical b/c if you say very little in general, and then you utter a negative comment (and btw "suggestions" OFTEN come off as criticism)...

So, do any of these ^^^ comments from her in the past, support ^^^this?

OKAY....GAL--
you must do this. I don't know if you realize how vital it is.

First it helps YOU obsess less and become a healthier person, thereby bringing more to the table, and it makes you less predictable (which is key now)

and her seeing you may light a fire under her to get some movement or effort from her towards the m. Despite that comment, I want you to remember that GAL is Not about the goal of getting her back, but getting her back can be a byproduct of it.

As for not being in love....(SIGH)

First, I think marriage is an ebb and flow thing. There are times we don't feel "in love" with our spouses and sometimes they are not acting all that lovable, and sometimes it's just us...but we weather the storm and the "lovin' feelin'" come back.

Plus, love is at least partly a choice. I think it's mostly a choice. Love is a verb & that takes action. Love is not something that lands on us...or finds us...we give and create love in our lives, and we nurture it.

Finally, for now and from this day forward, be the best dad you can be. It's a turn on to all women, (no mother is unmoved by seeing loving interaction between her chldren and their dad)

and it's the right thing to do anyhow. Plus your kids need you more now than ever.

I found it bittersweet that your son said he likes the 'new daddy"...

you realize what that says about you in the past? Your hours were too long.
Your kids noticed, AND your wife felt neglected enough to want out.
Hear that. Know it, and change it. Sounds as if you have, but don't backslide on it...ever.

Did you read the "Five Love Languages"? It's a great book for all couples...and one of your w's love languages, is clearly quality time together.
Your m lacked that, until now. Were you romantic? Is she?

How do you give your love? How does SHE give love?

As for the rules that Sandi assembled (she didn't author them; she assembled them. I only say that b/c I want you to know the "rules" are based on MWD's philosophy, not just Sandi's ideas...and they work if you work them)---

So follow them. That means Don't send letters like the one you wrote. Keep them to yourself certainly for now.

Act as if you DO get it. You get that She wants out and you now realize that no matter what else happens, you will be alright.

You will GAL and be content with, or without HER...but you will have the kids half time. I doubt she gets that.

Also, I'm a L too. And when my h left for the "great wilds of the tundra" (LONG story) I went to see a L myself. Don't represent yourself. If that is not obvious to you then we can talk but I assume you know this. I suggest at least one session to confirm what you think the law is and realize that knowledge is power.

Don't see her lawyer appointment as the death knell. When I saw my L, about 3 times in all, it mostly helped the marriage b/c I did not feel trapped. i was CHOOSING to stay married and not out of fear of being destitute. Make sense?

So now you must GAL-for real.

How about you make sure she watches the kids at least 1-2 nights a week for you, so you can go out and "meet up w/friends" (don't list all of the friends)

AND OR

go to a class or dance or some other UNexpected activity she would (maybe ski??) that shows CHANGE on your end.

remember this basic truth,

unless she believes marriage to you can be better/different, she won't return.

so you have to show her CHANGE...so she'll believe it can improve.


Don't say you are "too clumsy" to ski...don't put yourself down like that. You can learn. Two lessons will get you down 80% of the slopes (learn to slow, stop and aim. See??)...

Keep posting and we'll try to help. But be more specific about her complaints of you.

If you were a great guy and super h, but with long hours "that you fixed" and she still wants out

then you are powerless to do anything...right?

When our mc's told me and h that my h was out of line to want to live on his own, or that he was 'acting like a single man" -- that did validate my view and it did make me feel "right"

but it also left me with nothing to work on. So I was "right, but powerless."

See, that is why I LOVE having things to work on in myself -

and if you get the right perspective, you will see my point.

The more you have to work on in YOU, which only you control,

the more empowered you are.
Dig deep.

Do you get that?


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
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Thank you 25yearsmlc and for all who have offered suggestions and support. Her specific coplaints against me:

1. A perception that I am hiding money from her, although I have shown her my check stubs (salary) she accuses me of "hiding" money from her - the only money she does not have an accounting of is my reimbursement checks from work;

2. Not good communication regarding money (see above) always a flash point;

3. A perception that I do not get along with her family (her sister is a single M of 2 D and is having an affair with a married man - irks me that she leaves the kids with us to go have her fun - does not watch our kids in return) with this exception I love her Mom and Dad. I know that sister is her BF so I have eased up on voicing my opinion of same;

4. I don't have the same interests she does - albeit skiing is not my thing, I like being active in the outdoors.

There is no H + W time between us, it is work, school, hockey/TKO for the kids and then to sleep. Before the bomb was dropped we both have said it, but neither one of us moved.

She is not a touchy feely person, kiss and hug in the morning and she is good. Sex is on her terms. I could kiss and hug her all day if I could, seems that when I respected this she was open to more PDA.

I am giving compliments and praise to her when I can in a way that does not sound fake or phoney. Told her on Saturday that she has not lost a step on the slopes and that she is still busting her but for the kids.

Regarding the house there is no way the W could afford house plus inusrance and property taxes. I make 2x as much as she does and could stay. Always realized that her services were much more valuable than $$$ for our family, never threw this in her face.

Was there one thing or arguement before the bomb? No. Last weekend she was PO because she has been in pain with her neck and shoulder so she scheduled a massage after work on Friday Night. Told her I was going to a blues concert (she it not a concert person) that night and she flipped since I needed to watch the kids (just my luck concert is this Friday doh).

I then said that I had no idea a) she was in pain, b) that she made the appt and c) my mom was willing to watch the kids. This lead to that I am selfish for wanting to go out and not be concerned with her. Briefly the last two years she has had her appendiz and gall bladder taken out. In the end my mom would have watched the kids, but she was pissed the whold weekend and short with me and the kids.

She then tells me she wants out b/c she does not love me (and not sure if she ever did) - no other reason, I have not beaten her, would never cheat on her and don't abuse drugs/alcohol. She then shuts me out. I understand that the foregoing reasons are not the only reasons to leave, but I could understand her actions if I did any of those things.

With this new job she is leaning on a new F friend for support. She stayed at her house with her family this last weekend and is calling all the time. I have met her and liked her, but I do not think she is a supporter of our R. What can I do about this? Nothing I know.

It seems that when we went to MC 2 years ago we addressed what bothered us and made changes - stopped working so much, gave space , etc. When the problems were resolved we stopped talkling about feelings.

Does this information provide assistance?


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One more thing to my list I have been taking my work out on the family - coming home and complaining the house is a mess and riding the kids, particularly my S.

I can't believe I missed this last one she said b/c of this she hated being around me.


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I have been snoopiong again. She is really leaning on her new friend for support. I feel hopeless with the situation with my W, I am upset that this has been blasted to the world.


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Sad no more snooping you will become addicted and it does not help you. She is no longer your W. She is someone else and she does not want you anymore. Think of it that way maybe you will feel better.


M 53
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Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24
Together 26 yrs
Married 16
W Filed for D 7/21/11
Served 9/6/11
D final 8/28/12

“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”

John Wooden





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